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How to read Hemingway

 
 
Jack Vincennes
14:41 / 25.03.06
I thought it might be useful to have a series of threads about authors you want to read, but don't feel like you're getting all you could out of their works. Whenever there is handwringing about the Books forum I tend to harp on about how good it is when people say they don't like a book or author, and other people tell them how to like a book or author. So I thought a thread (or series of same) devoted entirely to that could be interesting.

I was reading something which mentioned Hemingway earlier, and as ever I thought, 'Oh, but I've not read any of his books'. This is a complete lie, as I've read The Old Man And The Sea, Green Hills Of Africa and For Whom The Bell Tolls, but I always feel like I've never read any of his books as I've always completely failed to engage with them. It's a fairly fundamental failure to engage as well. I can understand someone not liking them because they are too blokey and too much about fighting things, but I always come to the end and think something stupid like, "Well, there were a few good lines, but basically it was all about fish / rhinos, wasn't it?"

So; what can I learn to like about Hemingway? Is there anything I should know about him before I read his books? Any interesting ways of thinking about his work in general or specific books? Or any books of his I should read now, that are better than the ones listed here? Really, I'm just looking for any kind of angle that will help me to read him without feeling very frustrated with the books or myself.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
02:54 / 27.03.06
I've been trying to answer this question all day, and I can't really organize my thoughts, so I'll just ramble on a while and say provocative things. Hemingway was pretty important to me when I was about 16--at least as important as Robert Heinlein, esp. For Whom the Bell Tolls and a number of short stories. The critical line on Hemingway... well, there are two.

The first critical line is about his extremely reductive prose style, this sleight of hand where he creates tension through allusion, not description. In some story, it may be A Farewell To Arms, but it may be one of the short stories, about a cat, too, a couple are having a nasty argument about an abortion, but neither mentions the abortion or even appears to be angry. And that famous opening scene of A Farewell To Arms, with the soldiers marching into the woods in the rain with ammunition under their ponchos; or the part of that story where the Indian on the top bunk turns to the wall.

Ha ha, I'm driving myself crazy here. Anyway, similar techniques are used to cause a psychological state in the reader, later, by... Vonnegut maybe, Salinger certainly, and maybe Pynchon? Who else? Where there is sort of a spare, droning prose, with lots of repetative, inane dialogue, which lulls or hypnotises the reader, punctuated by intense imagery. It is a style that sort of fell out of fashion in the 70s and 80s, with the Stephen King/John Irving approach, let's call it psychologically lush, lots of consideration of every little gesture and emotion, and less though given to Meaning. Which brings us to line two:

Hemingway was part of a generation of novelists who had been involved in the European wars of the early 20th century, and there is this sense of disgust and frustration with words and rhetoric, the basic conflicts at the center of "civilized" behavior. I keep thinking about Raymond Chandler, too, and Samuel Beckett. What is there to talk about? What is the sense of writing a book? What can our stories possibly be worth, in the face of all the people we've killed? Robert Jordan, the hero of For Whom The Bell Tolls, is an architect who blows up bridges--Take that, Ayn Rand! People who dislike Hemingway usually talk about how he glorifies violence and bloodsport, but he's ambivalent. Violence is a part of human nature, and he's fascinated with all the lengths we'll go to to try and suppress it, and what happens when the wheels come off. Cf, The Short Happy Life of Francis Maycomber. Cf it right now.
 
 
Jack Fear
11:33 / 27.03.06
In some story, it may be A Farewell To Arms, but it may be one of the short stories, about a cat, too, a couple are having a nasty argument about an abortion, but neither mentions the abortion or even appears to be angry.

That would be "Hills Like White Elephants." Brilliant story. Very short, very fraught.

Hemingway's at his best in his short stories, I think. they suit the concision of his style far better than the novels.

The thing about Hemingway is the thing about all modern literature. That is: the story is never about what it appears to be about (fish, rhinos, etc)—there are always larger themes and things unspoken bubbling below the surface.

So far, so familiar—we're all used to reading between the lines a bit by now, yeah? Post-Melville, post-Henry James, nobody reads literature for the "plot" anymore, do they? Certainly nobody post-Freud.

But Hemingway is a special case, because he pares away at his prose so much, until there's nothing but surface, until it's the proverbial blank piece of paper that's all "between the lines." He takes the modernist tendency and raises it to the Nth degree.

He's telling psychological stories in an observational style, in other words. He is, to use the writing-class cliché, showing, not telling. His narration is the camera eye—seeing everything, explaining nothing. We never get inside the character's heads; we never get sentences starting "He thought" or "She believed"; Nobody talks about their feelings. Instead, we hear what the characters do, and we work out the rest from what we can see and hear. Just like in real life.

One concrete tip for getting more out of Hemingway: Because he uses so few words, each individual word is important. Read him slowly. Think about the words. Think about why he chose this particular word, when another would have done just as well. Think about his dialogue: Think about what you would say, in the given situation, and think about why his characters are not saying that.

Most of all, think about concealment.
 
 
Sax
11:48 / 27.03.06
I now officially love Jack Fear more than I love Ernest Hemingway.

Who's the Pappa now?
 
 
Jack Fear
12:35 / 27.03.06
My three-year old calls me "Daddy-O." I fucking love that.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
13:54 / 27.03.06
"Well, there were a few good lines, but basically it was all about fish / rhinos, wasn't it?"

I've only read "The Old Man and The Sea" but enjoyed it immensely. I'm of the impression, and this seems to be supported by others, that firstly Hemmingway is never going to come out and tell you what the allegory is, which I guess allows him the freedom for that representation to shift with the characters. If you're waiting for Hemmingway to deliver some such phrase as "If the old man doesn't kill the fish then the terrorists have won".

Jack has a very pertinent point here about reading him slowly. The Old Man and The Sea is a slender tome that is incongruous with more contemporary representation of the time passed and the very epic scale of the story. Giving it a similar amount of time that you would to a verbose writer will allow you to answer some of the questions that you want to ask. Don't be so eager to turn the page until you're done with what is written on the current one.

With The Old Man and The Sea you get two stories that are running in parallel, the actual and the allegorical. Throughout the book dominance pendulums between the two and the dominant story affects the other. There's also no absolute meaning because the potentially very wide scope of the allegories, so your own values come in to play.
 
 
gridley
20:37 / 27.03.06
basically it was all about fish / rhinos, wasn't it?

I used to have that problem with Hemingway for a long time. The hunting and fishing and soldiering really turned me off even when they were providing the setting for a good story. I thought I'd just never like him, but then something great happened.

I read "The Sun Also Rises." Totally turned me around. I think it's still my favorite novel to this day. Sure there was a bit of fishing and even bullfighting, but mostly it was about getting drunk, hanging out in Paris, and being in love with people you can't possess.

The characters are closely based on people Hemingway was lucky enough to know and I find them all fantastically sketched and thoroughly lovable.

I'd strongly recommend it to anyone, even people who feel they'd be put off by Hemingway's stereotypical manly man stories.
 
 
Loomis
07:45 / 28.03.06
I read a bunch of his books when I was about 20-21 but haven't been back since so I'm not sure whether I'd see more in them now, but at the time I didn't see them as particularly blokey. But then I'm not really a plot-driven reader so I was paying attention to the relationships more than in what activities those relationships happened to be based.

The first one I read was A Farewell to Arms and none of the others ousted that as my favourite. Mostly for the reasons Jack Fear outlines above. The terseness of the narrative style really opened my eyes to new ways of creating characters and relationships. And he certainly has a way with snappy titles.
 
 
ShadowSax
20:45 / 28.03.06
i would also recommend really starting with the short stories.

he used to get chaotically angry with editors for screwing with his copy so he'd insist that every word was critical. leave out one word, and the entire meaning is shot all to hell.

with nearly any writer, overdosing on him or her may cause fits of ennui and panic. hemingway, because his style is so precise and because the prose is so spare, is a perfect example. but "for whom the bell tolls" is my all-time favorite novel. its arc, its prose, its hesitant romanticism, the hero, the conflicts, all seem to me to be pretty close to as perfect a book as you can write. his short stories, some of them, are perfection. some of his more casual writing can be found in "a moveable feast," and i'd recommend that as a cultural read as well as a work of prose.

to me, hemingway is very similar to carver. their styles are instantly recognizable but nearly impossible to duplicate, and it's difficult to read too much at one time. at the same time, both have enormous lessons to teach readers as well as other writers.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
19:18 / 29.03.06
Thanks all, and thanks for the short stories -which I read as slowly as I had to, as per advice, and which were excellent. Especially like this from Francis Macomber :

It was neither all over nor was it beginning. It was there exactly as it happened with some parts of it indelibly emphasized

...superb. I'm certainly going to try to get a book of short stories of his, and try another novel once I've got more used to that way of reading.

gridley, The Sun Also Rises was one of his earlier books, wasn't it? Are there any differences between his early and late work? All I've read about him indicates he changed quite a lot once he was well regarded as a writer, I wondered if that manifested itself in his work at all.
 
 
gridley
14:02 / 30.03.06
The Sun Also Rises was one of his earlier books, wasn't it? Are there any differences between his early and late work? All I've read about him indicates he changed quite a lot once he was well regarded as a writer, I wondered if that manifested itself in his work at all.

Yup, it was one of his earliest novels and was definitely before he had fully found his personal literary voice. In fact, in "The Sun Also Rises," he seems to me to be really aping the style of Fitzgerald's "The Great Gatsby," (which not coincidentally is another favorite of mine).

I find it to be a breezier, more effortless style of storytelling, more akin to the way you might tell a long story to a friend at the bar, as opposed to the more orchestrated, carefully constructed writing I've read in his later books.

I've heard that at the time, Hemingway didn't have much respect for the novel as an artform and I suspect that attitude to what I found so readable about it. It's probably oversimplifying things to say that the book reads like a really good gossip session, but it does. And as a simple creature, that appeals enormously to me.
 
 
Daemon est Deus Inversus
16:26 / 30.03.06
If you're going to go with the short stories, I'd suggest "Winner Takes Nothing."
 
 
Shrug
17:34 / 30.03.06
If you're going to go with the short stories, I'd suggest "Winner Takes Nothing."

Why?
 
 
Daemon est Deus Inversus
19:24 / 31.03.06
I read it when I was 17. After the "our nada, which art in nada" speech in the Havana bar, I went on a Hemingway reading spree.
 
 
foolish fat finger
21:38 / 16.04.06
I had a friend who said, jokingly 'once u've read Bukowski, nothing else measures up... Hemingway, small beer...'
I guess I agree. I am sure it's great stuff, but I just can't, for whatever reason. ditto with Buk's other faves- John Faciante or whatever his name is...

for myself, it takes a lot for me to read a book written before 1950, with rare exceptions ('novel with cocaine' being one) It's a different world now...
 
 
Jack Fear
23:16 / 16.04.06
In its specifics, maybe. But has the human heart changed that much? Don't we still face the same questions of faith and doubt and loyalty that people faced in 1955—or in 1655, for that matter?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
07:17 / 17.04.06
John Fante's the name you're after.

Without wishing to derail this thread too much, Bukowski's stuff, IMVHO, is like a well-made cheeseburger - it hits the spot at the time, and it goes down easily, but it's pretty much limited in terms of it's ingredients. Which would be fine, and as it should be, if he wasn't quite so bullish about other cuisines.

Anyone who's that aggressive about 'how to write,' though, should be treated with suspicion, I think.

And 1950 does seem a bit late as a cut-off point - you're ruling out Kafka, Joyce, Dostoyevsky... I could go on for a while. (Though I'm with you on 'Novel With Cocaine.')
 
 
Henningjohnathan
20:24 / 17.04.06
Yes, Kafka, Joyce, and Dostoyevsky are pretty amazing. In fact, recently I was looking through one of Mario Puzo's novels while I was waiting at the barber shop and the best thing in the book was a quote about hell from THE BROTHERS KARAMAZOV. It is amazing to see what truly great writing can bring out of you.

I really loved Hemingway's works a few years ago. Despite his reputation as just a step away from hard-boiled detective writers like Chandler or Hammet, I think Hemingway himself said that he felt he had more in common with the painters of his time in Paris than with other writers. I think he is more interested in capturing the impressions surrounding the moments rather than delivering a narrative - telling a story.

Like with any writer however, I think people go in expecting someone special, with these "great" writers it seems that people are supposed to make a connection with the author - see the writer's intent - but Hemingway for me has always been about no expectations at all.
 
 
foolish fat finger
20:28 / 17.04.06
I agree Jack, but it’s just my thing. I can’t get Shakespeare. It’s a language thing. I like the Beats, cos I like their language. Oddly, I like black American writers from before 1950, they still got it. But a lot of other stuff from then seems so mannered. I won’t knock it but it’s not for me. Like, one of my favourite books is ‘trainspotting’, an I like Andrew Vachss… y’know, modern stuff… I don’t like that Thomas Hardy style stuff, I like it pared down a bit. I’m not sayin Hemingway is like that, he’s not, but somehow he just doesn’t tickle my anchovies

Kafka, I read a few pages of the castle, and I ‘got it’, and I didn’t feel I needed to read anymore, cos I just wasn’t enjoying it. The Dos I would like to read, but never got round to it. Gogol is on my list…

Alex’s G, I agree on Buk. I can always read him, but in maturity I have learnt that he was probably quite scathing about various people who were perfectly fine… he’s kind of a heroic asshole in a way, at least in his fiction.

yeah, 'novel with cocaine' was a corker! and also pre-1950, and very bleak, 'house of dolls' is a sledgehammer blow of a book...

In truth, 95% of what I read was written in the last ten/fifteen years… I’d like to read some Hemingway classics, but I know I won’t, the style itself will bore me. I did read ‘the snows of Kilimanjaro’, which was a perfectly fine story, but it didn’t leave me ‘hungry for more’… I think I would enjoy a short biog of him, very interesting guy… he had a near death experience in the Spanish Civil war, and then eventually went on to commit suicide. I read a lot on NDE’s in the last year, and it’s actually very rare to attempt suicide after having an NDE…

I hope at least some of what I wrote is on-topic/of interest to someone!
 
  
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