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Underground > Comic Books >

Comic Book Industry What If?

  
  

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Crestmere
08:31 / 20.03.06
Okay...heres the scenario.

Lets imagine what comics would be like if this happened.



In the early 1980s, there's a DC editor who gets a submission. Its from an unknown writer by the name of Alan Moore, a guy with a few credits in obscure British sci fi comics. He suggests doing a number of radical things to the character of Swamp Thing, a relatively unpopular character.

The editor looks over the story proposal, there are a few good ideas in there. But, ultimately, he passes on it and hands the title over to another writer. The things Alan Moore is proposing for the book are simply too radical to be feasible as the industry stands.

So we have a comic industry where Alan Moore never got to write Swamp Thing.


What happens from there? You decide.
 
 
This Sunday
09:25 / 20.03.06
Nobody insinuates that everything published under the Vertigo banner was inspired or directly attributable to Alan Moore being in a bad mood for part of the eighties. Milligan, Morrison,and other M-named British comics writers rejoice for five seconds. Karen Berger continues editing stuff. Alan Moore, having written other stuff before 'Swamp Thing' realizes one proposal in the roundfile isn't the end, and writes that caveman novel a bit earlier than he'd intended. It sells masses and he retires a very rich beard, at age seventy-three with not a single film ever being made by gutting something he wrote of any element what made it interesting in the first place. Milligan, Morrison, and some other British comics writers have a bit of partying, again, this time with Neil Gaiman and Pat Mills getting into a disastrous but hilarious situation which shall be remembered fondly and demonstrated in stick figures for a generation. Random issues of 'League of Extraordinary Gentlemen' will still be late hitting the shelves, and there will be an accurate, careful, literal and frame-true adaptation of 'Lost Girls' put into production and mysteriously stopped by studio execs during the staging of something with a card motif.
One person on the planet still won't find anything mind-blowing or remarkable about the last issue of 'Promethea' but it will be published.

Oh, and the Comics Code Authority will go away a helluva lot faster, because there won't be a beardy hippy bard pushing things on the commercial front quite as fast and making a good target for the worriers. That, or Howard Mackie will be revealed as the alternative, and time machines willl be invented explicitly to get back to a time when Moore's 'Swamp Thing' scripts can be approved.
 
 
sleazenation
09:38 / 20.03.06
I think we saw what would have happened to DC's output if not for the influence of Alan Moore - you just have to look at Marvel in the late 80s and 90s

There would be fewer revisionist superheroes, Neil Gaiman would probably not have put quill to parchment in the name of comics fewer British writers would have made it across the pond. The Comics code would remain in existence within the mainstream publishers with only a few smaller publishers daring to rock the status quo.

Image comics would have still happened but have had far less an impact. But outside of that little would probably have changed. Fantagraphics would look much as it does today.
 
 
Mario
10:40 / 20.03.06
Frank Miller would have an even bigger impact on comics. The Vertigo line starts out being focused on noir, instead of horror, with Sin City as it's lynchpin title.
 
 
Crestmere
10:43 / 20.03.06
Someone pointed out to me that he was actually handed the character of Swamp Thing to write.

Despite the technical mechanics behind it, for whatever reason he doesn't get to write the book. Or maybe, at best he writes an issue or two that aren't spectacular in the eyes of the powers that be and he gets replaced.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
14:04 / 20.03.06
In the absence of Alam Moore's work on 'Swamp Thing,' the Vetigo imprint never starts up. Consequently 'The Invisibles' is either a)never published, or b)cancelled by a less sympathetic comics company in the face of declining sales circa the 'Arcadia' storyline...

As a result of which, horrendously, THERE IS NO BARBELITH
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
15:05 / 20.03.06
But if there is no Barbelith then there is nobody asking these questions, so nobody goes back in time to stop him from writing it, so he writes it, so then there is a Barbelith where these questions are asked, so one of us goes back in time to stop him from writing it...
 
 
eddie thirteen
23:29 / 20.03.06
Though Mario's scenario interests me (not least because it's fascinating to think of what might have happened if people like Morrison, Milligan, Delano, et al, had had commercial reason to focus their energies on crime comics instead of horror), I think horror was a big enough thing in '80s culture that someone would have done something like Moore's Swamp Thing (Watchmen...I dunno, maybe not). Someone would have been able to infuse the genre with some life, if not necessarily the same literary sensibilities. My guess is it probably would have been Matt Wagner.

Without the influence of Alan Moore, Wagner's Grendel would most likely have evolved into a different book than the one it ultimately became, but its first incarnation did come about in the early '80s -- right around the same time that Moore's Swamp Thing run began -- and in it you can already see Wagner mixing the darkness of noirish superhero comics (Batman, Daredevil, etc.) with the supernatural, and what's more you can see him unapologetically working the antihero archetype some time before that was at all fashionable. In other words, in Wagner we have a young creator who is on the same path as Moore, independent of Moore. In our reality, Wagner is swept up in Moore's wake -- writing and drawing an excellent Demon series after Moore has placed his stamp on the character; writing Sandman Mystery Theater for the blossoming Vertigo line -- but...without Moore?

I think Wagner would have become a much bigger name (not that he's ever exactly been neglected). I don't think Wagner would ever have become the writer Moore is, but he is quite a good writer. He's also an excellent artist, and it's interesting to imagine a comics industry defined not by Moore and Miller -- one known for his writing, the other most respected as an artist -- but by Miller and Wagner, both writer-artists. Perhaps, as is often the case in independent comics, mere "writers" would have come to be seen by many as coattail riders...and a whole lot more artists who should never, ever be allowed anywhere near a Word program would have decided they could write (a la Todd McFarlane). Quite possibly, more than a few of our world's contemporary comics writers would in this environment have chosen to work in different media. (Or, conversely, would have learned to draw.)

How else would comics be a different place? I'm not sure DC would have so aggressively plundered 2000AD for writers if not for Moore. Without that cherry-picking, the British comics industry may have become a very interesting place in the '80s (especially if its writers continued to focus on genres other than superheroes)...or again, maybe a lot of those writers would have drifted into other media. Gaiman was brought into comics by Moore, so it's entirely possible he would never have so much as considered comics a career option. And I generally think the writing bar would not have been raised as high without Moore (though maybe someone else would have taken up the slack).
 
 
Crestmere
06:24 / 21.03.06
A couple responses people had to this thread from Talk@Newsarama (where i posted it also)



Moore would have been picked up by Marvel.

They would have puplished Watchmen and he probably would have preferred it there rather than DC.

Or would he..............?




Alan Morre would work for the competition, write some amazing stuff and the editor at DC would beg him to come back for fear of losing his job after making such a piss poor decision.



Allegedly, after some trouble involving Marvel and the copywright to the name "Miracleman," Moore decided he was never going to work with the company, so if he was to do anything in the US, it would have to be with an independant.

Maybe he would have worked for First, producing some creator-owned cult classics. He might have written Watchmen with slightly different characters and concepts, but it would also become critically acclaimed. He would have gained enough recognition so that DC would have approached him again, this time to work on a more high-profile character. Maybe Batman. Moore would want to take great risks with whatever book DC would be willing to give him, but would run into some resistance from the editors. Maybe in the end, DC decides to take whatever book Moore was working on and place it outside current continuity, as they did with "Legends of the Dark Knight" creating a "mature readers" line, which could be like Vertigo, only maybe including "mature" versions of big-name DC characters like Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman. Eventually, Moore would become tired of DC and go on to work with other independents again.

So, it would be kind of like the way it is now, except Moore would have the rights to Watchmen and maybe more.
 
 
sleazenation
07:00 / 21.03.06
I don't agree that Moore would have moved to a US-based indie label had he been turned down by DC. Those Indie publishers would merely of asked 'Alan who'? before turning out more funny animal comics, as was the vogue in the early 80s. The only work of Moore's to see print over in the US would be his run on Capt Britain.

And the contention between Moore and Marvel over Capt Britain would be a source of similar acrimony in this alternative universe as it was in this one.

Without Swampthing and Watchmen, Indie labels would not have been so eager to to hire some obscure brit writer who'd won a load of awards voted for by three men and their dog somewhere miles away...

V for Vendetta would still have been published and completed in the UK, in much the same manner that The Adventures of Luther Arkwright was... Marvelman probably not...

Outside of that, Moore would probably have followed the career cajectory of John Wagner, getting regular work on 2000AD...
 
 
Jack Fear
10:28 / 21.03.06
Moore would have been picked up by Marvel. They would have puplished Watchmen...

Doubtful, since WATCHMEN began as a revamp of the Charlton stable of characters, which DC owned had just acquired and, like SWAMP THING, offered to Moore to do with as he would.

That's not to say that the themes of WATCHMEN wouldn't have appeared elsewhere in Earth-2 Moore's work. But absent the initial inspiration of the Question, Captain Atom, the Peacemaker, Blue Beetle et al., the substance of the work would have been substantially different.
 
 
This Sunday
10:37 / 21.03.06
But would it have pirates?
 
 
sleazenation
11:02 / 21.03.06
I agree with Jack Fear. There would be no Watchmen on Earth 2. The closest earth 2 would get would be Marvelman, a less popular superhero strip cut off from the main market for such subject matter, the North American comic market.

With US indie publishers largely ignorant of Moore's work and a far smaller UK market that often struggles to publish even work of the highest quality, I can't really see Marvelman being picked up again after it's initial run in Warrior. Marvelman book 1, (and half of book 2) would be the closest earth 2 would get to watchmen.

Perhaps in such circumstances perhaps Captain Britain would gain greater acclaim...
 
 
sleazenation
11:07 / 21.03.06
And before anyone gets excited, it is also quite unlikely that Big numbers would have transpired on Earth 2 without the financial success of Watchmen to back it...

At best From Hell might have happened at an even slower glacial pace largely out of the enthusiasm and contacts of Eddie Campbell as Moore attempts to diversify his creative energies away from 2000AD...
 
 
doctorbeck
12:03 / 21.03.06
as chareles fort (might have )said;

when beardie wierdos come, it's beardie wierdos time

nothing could stop the coming of the man
 
 
Sax
12:06 / 21.03.06
Following his embarrassing rejection by DC, Alan Moore recycles his ideas and goes to Marvel, but is ejected by the security after asking if he can "show Jim Shooter my Giant-Sized Man-Thing".

Nonplussed, he returns to Northampton and gets a job in a factory making boots. Rising steadily up the ranks, he soon becomes a section manager, and is required to cut his hair short and shave his beard off. His interest in magic, no longer fuelled by the luxury of having time to sit around making up stories about super-heroes, wanes and he instead learns card tricks and other close-up sleight of hand conjuring.

He marries a wonderful woman and has two lovely children. One Sunday afternoon in the beer garden of his local pub, where he is having a relaxing meal with his family, he entertains people with his tricks. He makes a pound coin belonging to another drinker disappear. The man, who is on medication, reacts badly to this and stabs Alan Moore to death with a steak knife.
 
 
sleazenation
12:25 / 21.03.06
In the endorphin rush of his death throes, Moore has a terrible vision of his Earth one self and clearly sees for the first time in his life what a different course his life (and death) had he but had the opportunity to write the stories of 'hamlet, covered in snot'... depressed beyond tablets Moore from Earth 2 goes to his grave not knowing whether to be happy or depressed at the course of his life...
 
 
Crestmere
06:38 / 22.03.06
Wow, I love the Matt Wagner theory. Crime being the impetus for superhero comics aimed at adults rather then horror would have given us some very interesting work, and probably would have brought us a few different faces.

I think that the artist/writer as the impetus for comic innovation would have made a radically different industry then the fairly writer-centric industry we have today. And it probably would have actually created a real, unquestionable auteur theory in comics.

Honestly, I think that by the early to mid-80s, comics were almost destined to have grown up (saying that until that point everything else had stayed the same) but the impetus could have been entirely different. It could have gone a number of fascinating directions.

1. DC and Marvel continue on their old path of publishing superhero books aimed at kids and teenagers. They do the occasional book aimed at older readers here and there but there's never a central Vertigo-like line for those projects. We end up with a two tiered comic industry, superhero stuff in digest form on the shelf with manga aimed at a mass audience, which is a fairly major part of the larger manga line--which gets anthologized in Shonen Jump like magazines and then collected in volumes. And then a more "high art" or "literary" comic done primarily in graphic novels of 100 or so pages. These are mostly distributed on a small scale and are the side projects of the guys who make their living doing the first one, the way that big name movie stars do an indie film every year or two to keep their street cred or some other role that flexes their acting muscle.

2. Moore's ideas for Swamp Thing make their way around a little. Word spreads among creators. He does a little more work in England and a small independant publisher decides they might take a shot with him. So they give him a shot and he does well. The big creators instead drift to the smaller publishers, Marvel and DC pick a few up but the indie publishers start to take more and more of the market. Eventually we get a market that is about half indie and half Marvel and DC. Image never starts up because there is an outlet for people to control their own work and do their own projects and a creator-centric medium starts at a much earlier date.

3. Obscure DC editor Karen Berger, on a trip to London gets stopped by a raving Scotsman with some insane postmodern ideas for comics. His name: Grant MOrrison. She decides to give him a chance and his books instantly strike a chord with the newer readers in the way he can meticulously dissect the superhero genre and push it in new directions without needing to resort to shock value or gratuitous content, the thing that made Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns such a flop that it wasn't even completed. Instead of the darker, cerebral books like Watchmen and Swamp Thing leading the comic revolution, it comes from the more playful, deconstructive work of Morrison, things like Doom Patrol, Arkham Asylum and Animal Man. There are still a few mature readers books in this crop but the majority of them are still aimed at readers of all ages. And this really strikes a chord. The end result? We get no Vertigo but the DC Superhero line puts out 3-4 Mature Readers books a month but they are all in the DC UNiverse, they never break away. The end result for this would be that the next generation of comic creators after him is more influenced by this and genres are blended all the time and the superhero genre becomes much more fluid and dynamic but still with the intention of being for a larger market.
 
 
sleazenation
07:22 / 22.03.06
I am distinctly distrustful of the notion that comics were always going to grow up in the 80s... - comics had already grown up, but there was a lack of momentum behind them, they were just a bunch of disperate books and would have likely remained that way without the diversity of the the big three graphic novels of 1986... indeed, IMO one of the reasons that it took another 15-20 years for the graphic novel to actually emerge as a widely recognized and appreciated form is that there were fewer graphic novels of quality arround... actually, the real reason is probably more mundane now i think about it - new ideas tend to be accepted on a generational basis - the next generation is accustomed to a new idea and offers less resistence than the old generation...
 
 
Crestmere
07:32 / 22.03.06
It very could have ended up that it was a few disparate books and it took a few more years until the 1990s boom for something to happen.

Or maybe it never happened.


Wait, big three graphic novels of 1986? Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns and what is the third one?

Sandman started later. Arkham Asylum was later.

Was the first collection of Maus 1986 or was it later? I know he started it in the early 80s but it took him some time to finish.
 
 
sleazenation
09:45 / 22.03.06
Maus is most often cited along with DKR and Watchmen as the big three graphic novels - I believe '86 marked the first collected edition of book one, which probably feels odd today where the two books are usually packaged together as a single volume...

It's probably telling in this scenario that Maus is being largely forgotten. Perhaps this is because unlike the superhero genre, 'mainstream' comics and DC in particular, Alan Moore didn't have much of an impact on RAW, Penguin or the Fanatagraphics continum of comics...

These comics would still have been published and found their audience because it appears their audience is is largely distinct from the audience of 'mainstream' superhero comics. This is probably quite healthly for comics as it again becomes resurgent as a mass media, most people watch predominently certain select genres of TV, or read certain genres of books rather than actively seeking out books or TV of all genres. But somehow I still find myself wishing the people read a wider variety of comics...
 
 
This Sunday
17:14 / 22.03.06
I think 'Maus' and it's sequal are being regularly forgotten, because they simply weren't very good. It had 'There's Nazis!' and 'True Story, Swear to Bob' going on, which is great for marketing and some shortlived serious consideration and respect, but that sort of novelty heartstring tugging dies quickly. What's left, after those elements, is mostly inane and otherwise dull.
 
 
sleazenation
23:12 / 22.03.06
hmmm the holocaust inane and dull? or merely the attempt to represent the holocaust through funny animals inane and dull? Of all the reactions I've encountered prompted by Maus ranging from admiration to anger dullness and inanity have not been among them...
 
 
eddie thirteen
01:12 / 23.03.06
At the risk of coming across as anti-intellectual or what have you, I do feel strangely compelled to call bullshit on the idea that the independent continuum exists in some exalted void where it remains unaffected by what happens in mainstream comics. The readership for the average Fantagraphics book and, I don't know, Infinite Crisis has not, I believe, drifted as far apart as a Gary Groth would have you think -- check out The Comics Journal's message board sometime and you'll see what I mean. A lot of high-minded independent types may express embarrassment and outrage when it comes to superhero comics, but a great many of those same people appear nevertheless to follow them slavishly. This is not to say that there aren't tragic hipsters who worship Adrian Tomine and wouldn't go near a men-in-tights extravaganza, nor is it to say that there aren't plenty of fanboys who have never even heard of Fantagraphics (and would have no interest in it if they had), but the audiences are far from mutually exclusive.

And, to be a little bolder, I think even the most high-minded independent comics creators -- the ones most committed to looking at the form as literature, and who generally consider mainstream comics trash -- would for the most part never have developed an interest in the medium if not for a youthful interest in comics...which is to say, mainstream comics. So what happens there at least has a formative influence on even the most ivory tower comics snobs (even if it's not a continuing influence).
 
 
This Sunday
01:35 / 23.03.06
The treatment of the Holocaust, and of the entire era, as something easily cartooned into cats and mice, without even the subtlety or level of characterization in a 'Tom and Jerry' short, is inane. Least, to me.
And anything of entertainment/narrative that has to rely on the veracity or strength of history or reality, which it is, desperately ought to be trying to stand on its own legs and not life's. There's no subject that cannot be made dull, and really, 'Maus' seems to alternate between being placatory and over-simplistically dull. It doesn't move.
I do kinda like the bit where a mouse is unmasked, as it were.
Other than that...
 
 
Crestmere
08:21 / 23.03.06
Okay, lets try and avoid and Maus bashing party or segue in to Holocaust revisionism.

Whether you like the work or not (and I do like it but at the same time, I do think it can be a bit too direct for its own good but its a Holocaust narrative, I mean you can't really pussyfoot around the fact that the government wanted to wipe anyone who was remotely like you off the face of the Earth) it is considered one of the seminal works of comics (or whatever term one may wish to use).

And I'm not sure that Alan Moore's Swamp Thing would have impacted this at all. Maybe this would have been the work that changed everything and we got more "literary" comic works on personal topics with underground comics as the new popular literature.
 
 
sleazenation
12:24 / 23.03.06
Eddie - I think you are misconstruing my point - it's not that I think that readers of what we could refer to as 'fantagraphics style books' (a term that I don't particularly like since it misses since it emphasizes just one out of many publishers who are plumbing what is a very wide and varied field) thumb their nose at supposedly 'low brow' culture in the form of superhero comics in any great numbers, if anything there are probably more of the reverse - I fear all too many readers of superhero comics have very little interest in comics on other subjects... this has, regretably been my experience...

I also believe, and sales apparently echo this, that there are an ever-increasing group of people who are encountering graphic novels outside of their comic shop ghettos where comics that are not of the superhero genre or published much outside of Marvel and DC's virtual duopoly are rare.

I'm not for once moment suggesting that superhero comics readers and readers of other comics are necessarily mutually exclusive, but I DO think that they are following different traditions and appealing to different markets...

As Nolan points out - Alan Moore's Swamp Thing might be a highly influentual, many tentacled beast, but it is not and was not all encompassing...
 
 
eddie thirteen
01:04 / 24.03.06
There's too much here for me to reply to at the moment, save to say that (although it's surely true) I don't think that's exactly what Nolan's saying. I think he's saying that what Spiegelman is doing in Maus would have been done in exactly the same way whether Moore's Swamp Thing had come to pass or not, and that's difficult to argue with (especially since, if I'm not mistaken, a substantial part of Maus was composed well before Moore worked on Swamp Thing). On the other hand, I highly doubt that Moore's absence from the American comics scene would have shone a brighter spotlight on Maus, and thereby led us to an age of commercially popular autobiographical comics -- though American Splendor is about to become a Vertigo(!) series, so I guess this era may yet transpire. I do think, however, that Moore's mainstream work may have bushwhacked a few fanboys and got them interested in more literary comics before they were really aware of what was happening (this happened to me, anyway), and thereby indirectly led some superhero fans to (for instance) Maus. (Sorry this isn't exactly the most cogent contribution to the thread -- I'll be back, I swear!)
 
 
Crestmere
03:41 / 24.03.06
I think that the state of Marvel and DC would be radically different if there were no Moore Swamp Thing.

But I'm not sure that Maus, American Splendor and the underground comics would be affected. This movement dates back years before, and, really, it didn't have all that much to do with the mainstream comics ever. I think there may have been a few things but I think the changes there would not have been all that substantial. Besides, Maus was started before Swamp Thing.
 
 
garyancheta
19:29 / 24.03.06
Alan Moore was never in DC Comics, but comics still continued. DC struggled behind Marvel and realized that they needed a new way of creating a voice for DC that was significantly different than their competitors, but still kept the spirit of the DCUniverse.

Karen Berger, who felt upset that Alan Moore (and, by extension, a lot of the british writers/artists she met and tried to court to move to America) weren't creating comics for DC, went to the streets of New York and the New York Art Scene in order to revitalize the DCUniverse. She knew that Crisis on the Infinite Earths would change everything and DC still needed a headlining book to push the charge.

In New York, she met the up and coming Russell Simmons. With her buisness savy, she convinced him to join DC as a headhunter for a relaunch of DC Comics in the wake of Crisis. The idea came down from Warner Brothers that they were going to axe the DC division and they needed to come up with something that would blow away Marvel's competition.

In their ring, Russell Simmons had art and rap contacts to help create a new and innovative line of comics, akin to Jack Kirby's New Gods stories, where we would have comics that appealed to street culture. Because Crisis effectively ended the titles, new ideas had to be brought to the forefront.

Dwayne McDuffie came on board, along with Christopher Priest and Marv Wolfman and George Perez and Run DMC and Kurtis Blow to help create a new line that aimed towards a wider demographic. Marv Wolfman already had in mind of adding a more racially diverse mix of superheroic icons into DC Comics and, combined with the street credible hip hop and graphitti artists that Russell Simmons and Rick Rubin brought to the table, recreate Superman for the 1980s.

Superman was now black and had a new Supergirl that was every bit his equal and the love of his life. Wonder Woman, as revitalized by George Perez and the Ad-Rock, was a hispanic woman revitalized by Mayan mythology in order to fight crime in Boston. Batman, rewritten by Rev Run (with imput from Spike Lee) now lived in a racially divided Gotham City, a suburb of Atlanta, where Bruce Wayne grew up as a mortician's son that fought crime at night.

It had varied responses from the fans of DC Comics. Many fans were upset that they had wholesale changed their favorate characters. Others embraced the idea, citing that they could finally relate to these revitalized icons.

The "minority-fication" of characters became the staple of the DCUniverse, where old icons took on new ethnicities and new backgrounds in order to fit with the new DCUniverse. Unchanged titles like the New Teen Titans and the Legion of Superheroes acknowledged that within their history, and editors streamlined titles to fit a similar tone of city life that permeated DC Comics.

Marvel tried to do match DC with their "New Universe" comics that focused on minorities and ethnicities, featuring ethnic superheroes with Marvel names, but their ideas fell flat when Jim Shooter was ousted by Marvel Higher ups for not being "not ethnic enough." Instead, Marvel moved their offices to California to accommodate their new editor in chief, Andre Romel Young aka Dr. Dre who had left MWA Comics (a smaller subsidiary of DC Comics who were writing Batman at the time with Denny O'Neil and the hard-hitting social commentary "Straight Out of Gotham") for California.

Once in California, Marvel took the co-editor and chief, Suge Knight (who was the inspiration for Steven Grant's revitalization of vigilante named Frank Castle aka The Punisher). With Marvel on the West Coast and DC on the East Coast, bitter rivalries began with the shooting of Denny O'Neil after a Tupac Concert, and the assassination of current Superman writer Christopher Priest in Brooklyn...leading many artists and writers like Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld, Vanilla Ice and Dwayne McDuffie and (eventually) Dr. Dre the fold to form their own comics branch in Miami known as Image Comics.

Rob Liefeld and Vanilla Ice eventually gave up on Image, after Suge Knight had "words" with the creators (and dangled Rob Liefeld from the balcony of his hotel room by his feet), but the rest of the Image boys found their new "sound and image" with groups like 2 live crew (fostering indecency charges in many Florida-based comics shops). Meanwhile, Jim Shooter and Puff Daddy started off Valiant Comics, and became a much heated rival to DC and Marvel, until their artist Kyle Baker and the Notorious BIG were gunned down outside of a signing at Big Apple Comics in New York.

Today, comics became the centerpoint of hip hop culture, becoming...effectively...the sixth element of hip hop. With newer groups like Wu Tang Clan featuring Frank Miller, the Roots remixing old school jazz and Will Eisner, and Outkast's Kirbyverse.

- Gary Ancheta
 
 
Cowboy Scientist
07:33 / 25.03.06
...okay.
 
 
Crestmere
07:38 / 25.03.06
Gary, thats awesome.
 
 
garyancheta
11:15 / 28.03.06
Wow, I got banned from the www.comicboards.com boards because I posted my previous post. Weird stuff. I didn't think I outright insulted anyone and/or pissed anyone off.

I'm thinking barbelith might be more and more my only posting board.

- G
 
 
sleazenation
11:45 / 28.03.06
Bizarre - not the post itself, but the idea that it might provoke such a response...
 
 
doctorbeck
11:59 / 28.03.06
garyancheta, welcome home.
 
  

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