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Barbelith Book Club: V For Vendetta

 
  

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sleazenation
13:25 / 12.03.06
With the imminent release of the film version of V for Vendetta I thought now might be a good time to have a group (re)reading of this Alan Moore and David Lloyd classic...

So, when did you first read it? What did you like about it? What did you dislike about it? Did you have any problems with it? This is the right place far your comments and anylisis of V for Vendetta...
 
 
smurph
16:54 / 12.03.06
First read it in college. It was a holiday where most of the campus had gone home. Luckily my roommate left his comics behind. Pulling it down from the shelf on a random whim and reading it in my empty castle of a dormitory left me open to the books full impact. My mind was blown apart.

I liked all of it, the mystery unfolding, V's dramatic flourishes, but it was the "standing naked in the rain... transformed" bits that hit me full in the gut.
 
 
Tim Tempest
18:04 / 12.03.06
I haven't read it yet, but I just wanted to state that a Barbelith Book Club is a brilliant idea. We'll probably have better stuff on our lists than Oprah...

I think I'm going to run out and buy V For Vendetta ASAP.
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
18:31 / 12.03.06
Gad, I can't remember when I first bought it. But my most recent reading of it started on the bus ride down to Heathrow on my last day in the UK back in August. Read it off and on while I went through security, customs, etc. Finished it before the plane was on the ground.

I love V. Its a fantastic book. I overlooked it for so many years because I just saw the cover and thought it was a crime comic or something. Man was I ever wrong.

Come to think of it, I DO know when I first read it. It was New Years about...3 years ago. I know this becuase I read it while I was going to Young Drivers of Canada to pass the class-portion of their course.

I must go write a paper on Blake now. Will write more later.
 
 
Benny the Ball
18:57 / 12.03.06
I first read bits of it in Warrior back in about 83 or so, and loved the kind of off kilter feel to the whole thing, the fact that I recognised Guy Fawkes, but it wasn't him, Thatcher's Britain but it wasn't it, England in general, but not England. I was only 9 or so when I first read it, so it didn't mean much to me then appart from being a story in a comic that I liked somehow. Then when DC re-released it in about 87 or 88, I really got into it in a big way. My dad had just gone to prison, and I was feeling so much anger at authority, at controlling systems, and I really loved the 'Bollocks to Miss Platt' moment of the little girl swearing at the camera (I actually got suspended from school around this time, I was really interested in science, had written to NASA as a really young kid about becoming an astronaught, only to be told that because I had an inner ear infection from swimming which messed up my balance, I would never really make it as a pilot, so wanted to do something on the ground - but a teacher actually called Miss Platt kicked me out of science class for yawning - I didn't sleep much at this time - so I wrote a speach bubble on the black board of the classroom she taught in next, saying "hello, i'm miss Platt, and I'm a cunt"... anyway) so I loved the book.

I've always maintaned that it is my favourite graphic novel ever, having the whole rebel against a controlling force, destopic future, anarchistic order thing that played in to my youthful hatred of authority, distrust of government and semi-punk childhood mood. I've put off re-reading it for a while by basically loaning it out to friends, most of whom like it also, so haven't had the novel on hand, and the 12 issues are at my parents house.
 
 
Mario
19:13 / 12.03.06
I don't remember when I first read it... probably around 15 years ago.

What did I like about it? The transformative aspects... V is a true anti-hero, who goes through an ordeal and is transformed by it. He's not a "nice" character by any means, but he's truly fascinating.

OTOH, Evy was truly annoying, especially when she was living with that older guy. And, like Watchmen, there's no real conlusion... the consequences of V's actions remain unrevealed. I shudder to think of someone, years from now after Alan has apothesized into a snake god, penning a sequel to answer those questions.

(It's been done to other masters of the craft...)
 
 
Juan_Arteaga
19:29 / 12.03.06
So, when did you first read it? What did you like about it? What did you dislike about it? Did you have any problems with it?

Can't remember when I first read it. I own a trade of it, but I have no clue when I bought it in the first place. I gotta say that the part that I loved the most was the whole Evey in prison sequence. I really like the craft that went into it, the whole thing. I like the pacing, and how it hits all the right points with the story of the lesbian actress as a non-forced way to drive the point home. It's is easily one of my favorite sequences in comics.

There isn't much I don't like about it. Maybe that V doesn't explain at all the new government he is going to use to replace the evil old one. I know it is Evey's job to do that, while V only had to blow stuff up.
 
 
sleazenation
19:33 / 12.03.06
I don't think V is planning a new government at all - only tearing down the old one...
 
 
CameronStewart
01:32 / 13.03.06
Maybe that V doesn't explain at all the new government he is going to use to replace the evil old one.

V doesn't explain a new government because he isn't creating one - he intends to tear down the fascist regime and go to the opposite extreme and usher in anarchy, which means no leaders, no government at all, only individual responsibility.

I guess the question is, does it work? Can it work? Or are they left in endless chaos?
 
 
Mario
10:48 / 13.03.06
That's the biggest problem I have with that ending... Moore doesn't say. The story doesn't so much finish as stop.
 
 
lonely as a cloud...
11:19 / 13.03.06
I think the story ends right where it should. V has accomplished his goal, and since destruction is no longer necessary, he stands aside for Evey. The Vendetta is over; V is dead, long live V. While it would be interesting to see how Evey does as V, sometimes it's better to stop at a good ending point, and let the reader wonder.
 
 
Sniv
12:33 / 13.03.06
I first read V this Christmas past when I got a nice Hardcover version from my shocked comic store owner ("You fucking what? Buy this, now"). I'm not sure why, but I've always been slow on the uptake with Moore - I only read Watchmen last year too. I'm a slow learner, I guess.

The book was really really impressive. I'd heard a lot about it's fragmented run, and I was surprised by how well it all fit together - each of the three acts (presumably published quite a while apart from each other) link seamlessly and it all reads fabulously well. Despite a slow start, you really start getting into it quite quickly mainly due to the artwork. I loved Lloyd's style in this - it's one of those books where if you flip through, you'll have no clue what's happening, but together with the words, it manages to tell the story immaculately.

Speaking of words (ha ha), one thing I noticed that really impressed me was that with most of the dialogue, you couldn't tell from the balloons who was speaking, but you didn't need to, as the voices were captured in the style of prose. That's a trick you very rarely get from comics authors, especially outside of the major, iconic characters like Supes/Bats/Spidey.

I thought Evey's story was easily the best part of the book, especially the prison sequence - I felt sick when I read that, as I realisised at the same time as Evey what was happening. Great, great stuff.

Still though, it's V's book, and he's possibly one of the creepiest and simultainiously comforting characters I've ever read. Like Batman times 100, he'll fuck up the baddies, but if you're on his side, you feel safe (at least until he tries to reprogram your brain), although uncomfortable. The grin, the blank eyes, the wavy, singsong voice - V is as much a triumph of visual design as plotting or character.

I will definitely have to read it again before I go to see the funeral... I mean film.

btw, there's a nice V backdrop up on the DC Comics website. Yay!
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
12:38 / 13.03.06
It was a book I was aware of for a long time, but in my youthful ignorance I put off buying for ages - Then I finally bought a brand-new copy from a car boot sale for 50p, by that time I must have been in my late teens/early 20s (I'm 30 now).

I'd say it is definitely in my top 5 books, and is probably the one that I pick up to re-read random chapters most often.

I think I'll put off re-reading till I've seen the film though.
 
 
doctorbeck
13:54 / 13.03.06
like a few others, i read this at the time it was published in the wonderful warrior magazine, it was very much of its time, the thatcher government had basically introduced a police state in northern mining towns, the falklands war had brought about a forced and vile patriotism, nuclear winter seemed a likely prospect and the left was in dissaray, V was like your ultimate wish fulfillment, a superhero in effect but fighting what was a fairly explicit version of the government of the day

should i still find it problematic that a writer who has made a career of deconstructing ideas that big colourful superpowered characters will right wrongs on our behalf does just that with V? that even when the time of violence and revenge is over and building a new future becomes possible there remains Evey, the V created female V, to lead the masses? i think so, but at the time it was just what i wanted to read.

must mention as well as the story, the tone of it, which was really how early 80s britain felt outside of a bubble of prosperity in the south, all tired and washed out, what colour and diversity there was under threat following riots and widespread unemployment, it was only a few years after Ghost Town by the Specials topped the chart and said it all and i think moore and loyd caught that mood wonderfully
 
 
Grady Hendrix
15:45 / 13.03.06
I liked this a lot when I first read it a long time ago, and especially liked the Evey sequence in prison. Like a previous poster said, it's one of my favorites sequences in comics ever.

I re-read V recently and while I still liked it a lot, it did come across as a little politically naive. However, that's only in the light of hindsight and there's no way it could have been written at the time with that perspective. One thing that still holds up very well is that Moore doesn't excuse or play down the dangerous aspects of anarchy or of V's character. V is a bastard, but he's the right bastard at the right time.

I think where it's naive is in its overly-optimistic view of human nature and that its politics are a little schematic. However, it's nothing that hurt the story, and the story is still a good one. It's just not a very sophisticated poltical "how to" guide.
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
05:30 / 16.03.06
I first read V during my junior year in college (this being '96-97). Oddly enough, though I attended school in a podunk town in the arse-end of Wisconsin, the town library against all odds had a really superb little graphic novel section. One Saturday, not long after I'd started going there semi-regularly, I stumbled across V and took it back to my dorm room. I began reading sometime after 4 pm.

When I looked up at the end, it was around 9 pm and I'd missed dinner.

THAT'S a fucking good book. I believe it was that Halloween, or possibly the next, that I went as V. Most of the costume was shit, but I found a theatrical mask that, when painted, worked PERFECTLY, which was the most important part. I keep forgetting to contact a college chum who took pics of me in costume to see whether he can scan and email me them.

V cuts such an striking image that even a dumbass Yank like myself was impressed with his iconic power despite my then relative unfamiliarity with the history of Guy Fawkes and the tenor of Maggie Thatcher's England. (Admittedly, it's not terribly better informed now.) V nevertheless became inextricably linked in my mind with the positive aspects of the term "freedom fighter," the best case scenario thereof, where it is not enough to be pronounced free by one's rulers but to know oneself truly free without needing anyone's permission. It was a fanatical need to be utterly free that I implicitly, enviously sensed only the purest zealot could attain, and at cost of some of the niceties we more domesticated types enjoy, as trivial in the grand scheme of things as they may be.

I'd someday like to see staged, maybe even stage myself, a theatrical interpretation of V4V; I somehow sense, from the ads and what friends who've seen previews have told me, that it would be far truer to the quiet intensity of Moore's book than will be the brash, Matrixed-up rendition we're soon to have dropped in our laps. One thing I'm to understand that's been excised is most of the story of whassisname, the most focal Hand inspector (I don't have my copy of the book at easy access currently). That takes it down a peg right there for me, as it's his perspective which lays bare the atrocities of the fascist government. He knows where the bodies are in the foundations. Without that, the dictatorship, though probably still oppressive, likely comes off less sinisterly.

Anyway. Enough me.
 
 
Simplist
16:36 / 16.03.06
While it would be interesting to see how Evey does as V, sometimes it's better to stop at a good ending point, and let the reader wonder.

B-b-but surely it would be better if Neil Gaiman were to pen an underwhelming followup...
 
 
sleazenation
16:51 / 16.03.06
Have you read the dream hunter?
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
03:44 / 17.03.06
I always thought the Batman rogue Anarky was on some level a "sequel" (or more likely, a baldfaced ripoff) of V. Who "created" him, Chuck Dixon?
 
 
Jack Denfeld
04:01 / 17.03.06
Alan Grant created him.
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
04:50 / 17.03.06
Right you are. Other than the color scheme, the characters are quite similar, wouldn't you agree? Is Anarky Alan Grant's "answer" to V For Vendetta?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:10 / 17.03.06
David Lloyd in Conversation at the Cartoon Museum, London 21/03/06
 
 
sleazenation
07:21 / 17.03.06
Just caught the David Lloyd exhibition at the Guardian and was lightly disappointed...

Only about thirty or so pages of original artwork, largely out of sequence and from the latter parts of V for Vendetta plus two small cases of preparatory sketches includiung those pages featured at the back of the collection... What it could really have done with were more explanatory notes... there was a sketch of a hat there that would remain a mystery for anyone unfamilar with Lloyd's work and who did not know he was notorious for being 'a good hat artist'... By no means is it essential information, but it did seem like a chance to give added value to the exhibition was missed...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
09:10 / 17.03.06
I first read it a few years ago and really liked the fact that, whilst in the Invisibles the opponents of the forces of reason and order were glamorous and might do nasty things but had your best interests at heart, in V for Vendetta the opponent of the forces of order was completely mental. The strength of it is that the society that would seem to be ushered in by V is no better or worse than the fascist regime he replaced, I expect this point to be missed by the film.

I disagree with someone who said that V stood aside for Evey, looking at it again someone got lucky and he was killed. Evey was being prepared to be his Robin, instead she had to become Bat(wo)man. If a new and better society grew out of the rubble at the end of the story I suspect that V would have still fought it, he probably wouldn't be able to see it's positive aspects and retire, he might not even have been able to commit suicide.

V for Vendetta is, in my opinion, the story of a Frankenstein's monster fighting a more monstrous state.
 
 
Spaniel
10:33 / 17.03.06
The strength of it is that the society that would seem to be ushered in by V is no better or worse than the fascist regime he replaced

Well, I'm not sure that's Moores' intention. The state that V opposes is pretty clearly everything that Moore hates, politically, philosphically and morally, all rolled up into one tidy package. V, in standing in opposition to this, is likely to be standing for those things that Moore approves of. And let's not forget that the ending looses pretty much all of it's punch if we're not cheering V along. Something that would be pretty difficult to do if we thought he was ushering in yet another dark age.
I'm not trying to suggest that the world according to V is shorn of all danger and ambiguity by the text - I don't believe for a second that it is, quite the oppostite in fact - but I do feel it's perhaps better to view V's politics more (I'm struggling for the right word) allegorically (perhaps?) than literally, in that Moore seems to be attempting to positively valorize concepts like freedom of thought and action by tying them to a triumphant superhero narrative and juxtaposing them with their horrific opposites.

I hope that made some sense.
 
 
Spaniel
10:57 / 17.03.06
V for Vendetta is, in my opinion, the story of a Frankenstein's monster fighting a more monstrous state.

I should stress that I agree with this to the extent that I think Moore intends the original V (not eVey) to be very dangerous, poisonous, and somehow inhuman. He's the power of an alternative ideology embodied, and as such it becomes possible for us (the readers) to believe he can be victorious.
 
 
Not in the Face
13:01 / 17.03.06
I disagree with someone who said that V stood aside for Evey, looking at it again someone got lucky and he was killed.

I disagree with that but thats because I agree with what you go on to say but conclude differently

Evey was being prepared to be his Robin, instead she had to become Bat(wo)man. If a new and better society grew out of the rubble at the end of the story I suspect that V would have still fought it, he probably wouldn't be able to see it's positive aspects and retire, he might not even have been able to commit suicide.

For me the whole point of V's death was that it was done in a very self-aware fashion - V knew that he was shaped by his experiences to be an agent of destruction and probably would turn against whatever arose from the ashes. He literally couldn't be creative only destructive.

I also think that it was V's last push for Evey - as you say she probably would have been content to be in his shadow to a degree but that would have left her still in a prison of some sort. By dying he forced Evey to take on fully the mantle of responsibility for herself - in this way the ideology would survive embodied in V but adapted to a different time and need.

I also think the burial sequence shows that V had this planned. I'll have to go back and check as I don't have it to hand but I thought he had had a coffin put in the train that then blows up 10 Downing Street. When I read it I see V as wanting to die probably since Larkhill but for his death to have meaning.

I think his death is also a final push for Finch, opening the way for him to leave his old life behind having achieved what he set out to do at the start of the series. It is Finch who is most repelled by the deaths of the policeman seeing them as individuals coldly cut down and so his murder of V is in itself a form of justice
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
17:17 / 17.03.06
Oh yes, V has prepared for what to do in event of his death, but I don't think he has necessarily planned for his death to be at that precise time, in a sense it is the Story and the Author that say he must die at that point, not the Character. He then uses it to lock Evie into the role he has created for her/created her for.

He is essentially Spartacus Hughes on the Libertarian ship in the middle of The Filth. Certainly I agree that Moore is more sympathetic to anarchy than fascism, one of his strengths as a writer is his acknowledgement that it is not a perfect ideology, there will be problems.
 
 
bencher
06:02 / 20.03.06
I first read this, oh, 7 years ago in my cramped-up rented bedroom while going to university. The most amazing thing was having picked it up just because I had heard of the name V for Vendetta and nothing else. I was plain curious.

But I read all ten issues in one sitting.

Words of course, cannot do justice to the impact that the whole book had on me. V basically was thing thing that moved and did things, and as the book unfolded it just added to the whole entity that was V, all the way to the very end. That any one character could have possibly left a stronger impression was inconceivable.

The character of Evey Hammond was particularly accessible for the reader, being taken through her torture and that moment in the rain - it was wondrous. When we next saw Evey and she was new and whole, hell I was new and whole. And of course, the final bit with the mask was simply magical, again, here was this amazing character that did things and all of a sudden at the end, you had this entry point where the reader could be V.

It was a mirror, it showed you what you was, but more importantly what you could become. It was empowering. Aside from a few moments in Morrison`s Invisibles, I cannot remember any other book that has done that(re: what you could becomes as in a person who does something, not become a terrorist).
 
 
bencher
06:06 / 20.03.06
Aye, definately, V`s demise was planned and planned. He was the destroyer, and Evey was to be the creator, whom would eventually (possibly) be replaced by a new destroyer(we see Evey recruiting someone new from the government at the end).
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
14:14 / 20.03.06
You don't think V is a terrorist?
 
 
Ninjas make great pets
15:03 / 20.03.06
I was in a pound shop one day.. we lived in a near no-where town. there was a box of comics. 5 for 50p. one of which was V for Vendetta. Where Evey was released from her prison. I was a kid. Had read only the beano, roy of the rovers, etc up til then. It was stunning to me. It was a real story. Something that had meaning. and in a comic book of all things! Changed my views and inspirations and aims. That one little flimsy issue with half torn cover.


I was afraid of what they'd do to it. But excited as well. I knew that maybe others may be affected too. Maybe more will read the comic and see whats possible thorugh it.

Thankfully I'm also old enough not to be too precious about things. I actually think they did a good job (not amazing) of transferring it to screen. The thatcher future isn't as believable now without the chemical/terrorist backdrop. It was only too possible when I read the comic first. Darker days but almost less fearful. (I'll stop before I digress too much).

Alan Moores stories, for me, where the first of their kind. They were tales in truth with no apology.
 
 
bencher
23:22 / 21.03.06
Oh V`s a terrorist alright, I just wanted to make it clear that having read V for Vendetta didn`t make me want to become a terrorist, but become someone who did something.

The appeal of the V character(including the subsequent V - Evey) is partly due to the fact that V seems like the only person who does anything, amidst the backdrop of England just sitting there being caught unawares every other page. rephrase: does something with a purpose.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
09:40 / 17.04.06
I first read V last night. Started out at ten-ish, with every intention of just reading a little bit and then going to bed. Ended up staying up half three to read the entire thing at least. The Evey in prison bit definitely felt like the most powerful bit of the book to me and the Valerie chapter was one of the most emotionally powerful scenes I’ve read in a comic book – made me kind of want to put the book down and go out and find some bigotry to fight right there and then. Other than that I also found Finch’s arc particularly compelling, him and Evey seeming to be almost mirror images of each other, they are on opposite sides, but both unlike most of the other characters seem entirely able to understand the inhuman fucked-up-edness of their own side as well as the other, and I found the individual transformative journeys each went through a nice counterpoint to each other.
 
 
trantor2nd
23:58 / 27.06.06
First got some loose issues from DC Comics' colored run at a bargain bin, then some loose issues from the original Warrior run, then years later, borrowed a TPB from a friend who could afford it.
V was an effective story even in countries far removed from Western civilization.
Now that I've seen the ok movie, I don't have the TPB to reread through. Darn.
 
  

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