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Underground > Comic Books >

The Best Of ... Alan Moore

  
  

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Jack Denfeld
03:47 / 10.03.06

Taken from sleazenation's idea. This is a thread to discuss Alan Moore's works.

Alan Moore comics have always been around me, since I was a little kid. I remember reading Watchmen from the library when I was little and thinking it was so huge compared to my normal G.I.Joe and Captain America comics. Speaking of Watchmen, that and DKR are probably gonna be the books always associated with comics in the 80's I would think.

I've enjoyed a lot of his older stuff, like Watchmen, V for Vendetta, From Hell (probably my favorite), Killing Joke, Swamp Thing.I missed out on his Miracleman stuff but hope to get to it eventually.

I'm not so up to speed on his current stuff, nor have I read any of his image books. Haven't really checked out Promethea, but I hear a lot of praise for the book. I do like League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, and again, haven't really checked out Tom Strong or the rest of the ABC lineup yet.

Themes? He's a practicing magician, and he used some of that in From Hell, and maybe Watchmen.
 
 
Digital Hermes
04:29 / 10.03.06
He wasn't into the magical stuff for Watchmen, though you could say, (as he himself has) that he was unwittingly performing magical acts previous to his 'conversion.' That said, the structual stuff in that book is just amazing, and it's long term meme-like effects could be looked at as a pervasive magic spell, influencing what comics could be afterwards.

Again, the Moore himself has stated that Watchmen unwittingly caused years of bad comics with sociopathic characters, chock full of pyschological issues. People imitating elements of Watchmen, without it's overall depth. An accidental magical curse on the industry, perhaps?

So, post Watchmen, From Hell, that era, a lot of his books are about bringing a sense of fun, and sometimes simplicity, to the storytelling. While at the same time bringing that trademark Moore intelligence.

I haven't found one work of his that's let me down. Some are better than others, but very few of them are ever actually bad...

Lastly, I just started his Novel, 'Voice of the Fire'. I'll let you know how it is when I'm done.
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
07:39 / 10.03.06
The Killing Joke is simply amazing. I only read it for the first time last week, and have read it six times since. The idea behind it, Joker as the victim, Batman's realisation that he and the Joker are crashing in a downward spiral... all of this, crazy good.
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
07:58 / 10.03.06
Not the most profound insight, I know, but his comics are immesurably improved (in me' 'umble) if you read them stoned.

He's brilliant at doing that whole-page-of-small-panels-with-people-pointing-at-something-turn-the-page-WOAH-IT'S-MASSIVE! kinda action. Blows my mind everytime.
 
 
lonely as a cloud...
09:02 / 10.03.06
Across The Universe - The DC Stories Of Alan Moore is pretty cool, IMHO. It's interesting how much Moore can squeeze into a one or two issue run. The book includes The Killing Joke, but I thought the most interesting story was about the Green Lantern Corps - where one of them is sent to find a new GL for a planet whose inhabitants have never been able to see, and hence have no conception of light or colour. Really excellent stuff.
 
There's also a damn fine Moore story lurking in the Mr Majestic TPB - it's the last story in the collection, and it contains more interesting ideas than the rest of it put together. Including the last super-intelligent STD in the galaxy...
 
I've been on a Moore binge lately; rereading V for Vendetta, and picking up LOEG volume 1 and The 49ers - both of which I really enjoyed. I've ordered Promethea book 1 , Top Ten book 1 and LOEG book 2 from Comics Unlimited (who, as an aside, I'd like to reccomend highly - they have an excellent stock of back-issues for sale), and I'm looking forward to enjoying them.
 
 
Dead Megatron
10:46 / 10.03.06
Not the most profound insight, I know, but his comics are immesurably improved (in me' 'umble) if you read them stoned.

When I was a biology graduate in college (about 10 years ago) and was a major pothead, I used to re-read Watchmen pratically every week, always at the the sound of Pink Floyd's The Wall. Every time it got to "Waiting for the Worms" I was reading the part in which, in a Ozymandias flashback to the 60s, The Comedian is telling the vigilantes that they are stupid and that, in 30 years, the nukes would be flying around like flies and there was nothing anyone of them could do anything to stop it - the moment Ozy first conceives his plot to save the world.

No one can convince me that that was not magic

Waiting to cut out the deadwood.
Waiting to clean up the city.
Waiting to follow the worms.
Waiting to put on a black shirt.
Waiting to weed out the weaklings.
Waiting to smash in their windows
And kick in their doors.
Waiting for the final solution
To strengthen the strain.
Waiting to follow the worms.
Waiting to turn on the showers
And fire the ovens.
Waiting for the queens and the coons
and the reds and the jews.
Waiting to follow the worms.

  
 
matthew.
14:00 / 10.03.06
I read all of his DC stories, excluding Swamp Thing (haven't started yet), I find that it's a shame Moore didn't allow himself more time to play in the sandbox. For example, the Superman story "For the Man Who Has Everything" is a great great great tale that ultimately understands Kal-El and Bruce Wayne. Moore understands these characters and knows how to use them. Same with "Whatever Happened to Superman?" which is a fine story that uses Superman in the perfect way: defeatable to make it interesting, but undefeatable because it's fucking Superman.

I would have liked it if Moore had a chance to play in the Marvel sandbox. Imagine what he could do with the Avengers? Or Spider-Man?

Unfortunately, Moore's as crazy as a crazy fox who's professor of crazy at Oxford. The whole "Alan Smithee" thing he wants to pull is so annoying.

Has anybody read his Supreme work?
 
 
The Natural Way
14:45 / 10.03.06
Crazy how? Because he's an occultist? Might as well section loads of Lithers then, Matt. He's a grumpy bugger, sure, but he doesn't strike me as crazy.
 
 
John Octave
14:50 / 10.03.06
I've read Supreme. The 12-issue "Story of the Year" arc is really great. It's really tightly plotted, and when you get to the last issue you see all the stuff in the past issues that looked insignficant but actually added up to the ultimate denouement. Which is, of course, is Moore's standard party trick.

The whole thing, of course, is a commentary on the comics industry past and present using DC analogs. The commentary, perhaps unfortunately, is none too subtle, and I think the work may suffer from being inseparable from its context. If you're looking for "Alan Moore writes Pre-Crisis Superman adventures," you may be disappointed to find it's a bit more "Alan Moore examines Silver Age DC Comics in narrative format with a heavy dose of irony and self-reflexiveness."

Still, the analogs are great and put interesting spins on the characters. Darius Dax (Lex Luthor) is evil just because he likes being evil, Suprema (Supergirl) is incredibly powerful but prudish to a fault, and Radar the Hound Supreme is like Krypto, except that he has little speakers that translate dog speak into human speak. Jack-A-Dandy is a Joker stand-in who reads Virgil in his secret lair and whose intruder alarm is a Bach minuet. Wonderful.

What I really like, though, is Moore's run on Youngblood, which unfortunately only ran like four issues and ended on a cliffhanger before Liefeld starting having trouble publishing. Unlike Supreme, it's less dependent on ironic meta-commentary on comics and captures and updates a sort of 60s Marvel feel. Villains are defeated through cleverness and ingenuity rather than just hittin' 'em, and they're just generally colorful fun comics. Steve Skroce drew it, and I really wish there'd been more issues.
 
 
matthew.
15:03 / 10.03.06
Not because he's an occultist. I don't care. I meant crazy as in his credits on his own works which he feels he must remove. The two sentences were back-to-back with no mention of occult or magick. Unlike other writers who are happy to just be in the industry, Moore has the huevos to complain about every aspect of the two big companies. A lot of people think Marvel and DC are doing a fine job.
 
 
matthew.
15:10 / 10.03.06
This thread sums up why I think Alan Moore is crazy. Nothing to do with his religion or his beliefs.
 
 
Aertho
15:14 / 10.03.06
That thread only says to me that he's grumpy, and a man of unwavering principles. Poor guy.
 
 
Digital Hermes
15:17 / 10.03.06
Just to clarify, are you upset that he's wanted to take his name off the credits of the recent film projects of his work? That I can understand. The League was an action-fest, From Hell became a whodunnit, wouldn't you want to bow out of an industry that had turned your multi-layered works into pablum?

What I think is interesting is that this is a creator, an artist, who is showing he cannot be bought, and that he doesn't have to play with characters that have been written and re-written, and overwritten, for forty years. So yes, he snubs the Big Two, but who cares? Most (not all, but most) of what the Big Two put out is pandering to nostalgia.

This is a guy who gets to create what he is interested in. Would League of Extraordinary Gentlemen have even been created if he had to pitch it the D.C. exec?
 
 
matthew.
15:27 / 10.03.06
No, not the films, the comics. From the article linked to in the previous thread:
"[Moore] now [11/8/05] wants his name taken off all of his
published work that he doesn't own, including V for Vendetta."

As Boboss put it:
Well, I'm going to take a different tack and point out that as a consumer I'm interested in who's writing my comics. I think Moore should pull his head out of his fucking arse on this one and have a think about those people who are actually buying the products of his labours.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
16:00 / 10.03.06
I don't think he's crazy. If the film is going to be poor and he'll be attatched to it I don't think removing the name is a bad idea at all.

Anyway, here's a link to one of my favourite Moore things. Sorry for not being able to link it in the text but a copy and paste will be worth your time.

http://pip.rubberfeet.org/stuff/ducks.html
 
 
FinderWolf
16:20 / 10.03.06
>> He wasn't into the magical stuff for Watchmen, though you could say, (as he himself has) that he was unwittingly performing magical acts previous to his 'conversion.'

I have noticed that Moore often tells stories of his pre-magickal writing that seem to show his knack for it or his being tuned into that energy before he consciously was exploring it, where he just out of the blue found an amazing resource that just happened to work perfectly with what he was writing (opening to a random page of MacBeth and using the quote he found there for the beginning of V FOR VENDETTA, finding the real-life picture of the Happy Face Crater on the Mars while working on the Dr. Manhattan goes to Mars chapter with Dave Gibbons, etc. etc.).

(That's not to say that everyone doesn't have stories like that in their lives, but Moore seems to have a lot of them regarding his writing...also his real-life run-in with a guy who looked and dressed exactly like John Constantine in a pub, after he'd created the character in Swamp Thing)
 
 
Andria
18:07 / 10.03.06
I've read a lot of Alan Moore, and loved nearly all of it.

Watchmen, V For Vendetta, The Killing Joke and From Hell are just classic - no further commentary needed (from me, at least. Other posters in this thread have interesting things to say). Shamefully, I've never read his Swamp Thing run (other than an issue or two), but that is definitely something I'm going to do as soon as possible, as it sounds really good.

Miracleman (or, Marvelman) is one comic I'm really glad to have downloaded. It's so good it should be ranked next to Watchmen all the time. Only thing that annoys me, mostly in the earlier issues before Moore seemed really sure were to go with it, is that he doesn't let the pictures speak for themselves very often, despite very good art. Instead he fills the pages with unnecessary and wordy captions which makes the whole thing read a bit heavy-handed at times. But considering the story as a whole (and despite that I have noticed it in some of his other work as well), that really is a very minor issue. The last Moore issue of Miracleman is just beautiful.

Supreme is also one that I downloaded. The Liefeld art almost stopped me from getting into it at first, but I'm happy I kept reading: it's a brilliant Superman story - maybe the best - only without Superman. John Octave expressed it all better than I could.

One thing I didn't see mention is Big Numbers, perhaps because only two issues were published and the project abandoned. Reading the first two issues though (and I have them on paper!), and it feels like it could have been one of the best Moore comics ever. Can't find a link to it right now, but that huge sketch/diagram/note he did for it looks crazy and very complex. While the story is rather mundane - it's about a writer who visits her old home town where they plan to build a shopping mall, basically - the way it's told and drawn (by Sienkiewicz at his best) makes it great.

Other than The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, I haven't read a lot of his later work. LoEG is great, however, and the Jack B. Quick stories in Tomorrow Stories are very fun to read. Other than that, I didn't like Tomorrow Stories all that much - Greyshirt is only occasionally good but there is no reason to read it when you have The Spirit, really; First American is kind of funny at times but is a bit over the top, I think; Splash Brannigan never appealed to me at all and Cobweb is just bad.

Oh, and his 2000AD stuff, or what I've read of it, is pretty cool. Didn't enjoy Skizz very much, it felt a bit shallow, but D.R. and Quinch is a lot of fun and with good art, too.

I'm sure there is some Moore comic here I wanted to mention but forgot. Oh well.
 
 
This Sunday
18:14 / 10.03.06
I'm really, really not into a whole lot of Moore's works, love a few for their obsessive cataloging and casually played rude emotiveness, and think he has a wonderful voice... but even I can't see really calling Moore crazy. His fits of dramatic principle and decisive x-or-nothing policies are wonderfully entertaining. You get the strong impression that he doesn't plan them, much, but suddenly just announces. If he did that more in his writing, I'd enjoy them much more.

Moore seems to work best in very short form, be it a song or a six to twenty-two page comic. 'Me and Dorothy Parker' was right on, as was that 'Hypothetical Lizard' shortstory and I still think the Cobweb stuff was giddy in frightening and hilarious turns. 'Watchmen' - and I read it when it came out - has never, ever done a thing for me on more than a structural level. It's wonderfully, densely, arranged, but it's got less passion than a flickering streetlamp under the two pm sun.

What scares me is the suggestions (by Chris Claremont?) that if Moore ever learned to plot, all the other writers would have to gang up and kill him. If not for plot and progression, what have most of his pieces got? And I'm not going to type the thing I always bring up, because even I'm sick of it.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
19:54 / 10.03.06
I've liked pretty much all of Moores work that I've read, though that doesn't include Watchmen, Swamp Thing, or the last two thirds of of V for Vendetta.

I have a soft spot for Skizz, Top Ten and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen are pinnacle moments for comics as literature. Hmmmm. Wish that didn't sound so culture show.

Coming soon is a collection of his earliest works, the Future Shocks and Time Twisters that he wrote for Tharg under the editorship of Alan Grant. 5 pages of genius with near perfect execution.
 
 
Just Add Water
22:56 / 10.03.06
Violator vs Badrock was not very good, I'm sad to report.

I haven't read it in ages, and I really don't feel like reading it again just to say something more about it.

Brought to Light was interesting, if not an especially reader friendly experience. Very dense, as might be expected from a work of that kind.
 
 
Robert B
03:04 / 11.03.06
Miracleman was the first thing I read by Moore. I picked up the first 2 trades years ago and was blown away. Then I stopped reading comics. At some point I gave my two trades away. I recently decided I wanted to reread the series and saw how much those trades are now worth. Damn! I feel stupid for giving mine to Goodwill but maybe some other kid read them and started his adventure into good comics. Anyways, I downloaded the whole series and read it in one day. Moore's run on the title is one of the best superhero stories I've (re)read in a very long time. The first 10 issues are a nice detective-type story and the final 6 are a definitive look at what having superheroes in the "real" world might be like. Seems like from what I have read about Warren Ellis' Authority is that maybe he borrowed from these final Moore scribed Miracleman issues for inspiration (though I've haven't read these yet but they are on my "to read next" list of trades to buy).

Anyone know the status of the legal issues around Miracleman? These really need to be republished at some point.
 
 
Cowboy Scientist
03:31 / 11.03.06
Not the most profound insight, I know, but his comics are immesurably improved (in me' 'umble) if you read them stoned.

The same as everything else in life.

I would have liked it if Moore had a chance to play in the Marvel sandbox. Imagine what he could do with the Avengers? Or Spider-Man?

Forget that. Imagine him on the Fantastic Four. SUPERCOSMICGASM!

Supreme's great. It's a shame that Chris Sprouse didn't draw all of it. Still, some great ideas in there: the time-stairs of the League of Infinity, the Tele-Villain killing the characters of "Friends", Moore making a comment on his own writing in the 80's through Billy Friday, and my favorite, in Supreme 53, Supreme vs. Omniman (the main character from the comic that Ethan Crane -Supreme's secret identity- writes).

(Oh, spoilers, b.t.w.)

Omniman turns to be Szazs (the Mr. Mxystplk of Supreme), who replaces every copy of the latest Omniman issue for a copy of Supreme 53 (that is, the same comic book you're reading in that moment!) and Sup's got to stop people from reading it so nobody discovers his secret identity. He reads pages in advance of his own comic to learn how to stop Szasz. After this, only one copy of Omniman remains a copy of Supreme 53, wich he keeps. In the final pages, Die-Hard from Youngblood is talking with Supreme about the murder of the members od his team (the event that sets off the "Judgement Day" crossover in Extreme) and after an amusing converstaion (D.H. would say anything and Supreme goes "you know, you said exactly that in the final pages of my comic!") D.H. concludes that he shouldn't worry that much about Judgement Day, after all, the future is already written; Supreme answers to that saying "well, I'm not sure about that, but judging from the back cover of that Supreme comic book, it's at least already being advertised" (which is true, Supreme 53 really has a Judgament Day ad in the back cover).

Tom Strong is also cool but seems to have a lot of ideas already used in Supreme (both of them having cartoon animal versions of parallel universes is a good example of this).

"Whatever Happened" is my all-time favorite Superman story (at least before GM finishes All-Star Superman. I have blind faith in ye, GM. Blind, deaf, un-tasting, un-smelling, un-feeling faith.)

Promethea is fantastic. Even if you aren't in the magick thing (which I am, so I don't know if I can be impartial about this...)

Didn't like the LoEG minis that much. Yes, I enjoyed the literary references, but in both of them the story flows too slow, and in Volume 2 they don't even do much of anything.

I'm still reading Miracleman, so no concrete opinion yet, but it's been great so far.

The latest I've read by him is Hypthetical Lizard, which is really really really good. Really.
 
 
FinderWolf
04:54 / 11.03.06
>> Violator vs Badrock was not very good, I'm sad to report.

How could it be good, though, with those characters (and that title)?

>> Brought to Light was interesting, if not an especially reader friendly experience. Very dense, as might be expected from a work of that kind.

I would love to find a copy of this to read...seems there are very few around.
 
 
This Sunday
05:52 / 11.03.06
I'd imagine Spider Robinson or DAF de Sade could've managed something out of 'Violator vs Badrock'. 'Good Conduct Well Chastised' ought to come on the cover of any comic involving Liefield, should it not? Or run it in a Lovecraftian 'Sons & Lovers' and see how much mileage.

And I can't see Moore's talents working well for Marvel's general properties. 'Fantastic Four' simply doesn't lend itself to his strengths, and since he doesn't seem too inclined to deal in company properties, these days, where'd the point be?

What I really want to see is some of his visual art. Anyone have a link to anything? I know he's produced and most things end up, eventually, on-line.
 
 
Cowboy Scientist
17:30 / 11.03.06
'Fantastic Four' simply doesn't lend itself to his strengths

Whaaat? Supreme and Tom Strong are pure FF stuff.
 
 
Aertho
17:39 / 11.03.06
Yeah, Tom Strong = Superman / Doc Savage x Fantastic Four!

Love me all the Prometheas, and Moore makes me happy cry sometimes.
 
 
This Sunday
18:58 / 11.03.06
See, I didn't like 'Promethea' much, so that might be part of the problem, from my end. A big romp through magicky magicks, like 'Fantastic Four' is best as un-mechanical as one can manage. Organic, and for FF, uncomfortably angsty, seedy, seductive and clotting and claustrophobic with the tense tedium being broken by blasts of pure unaduleterated cosmic exploratory splendor!
So, something I think Morrison is more suited to, than Moore. I'm going to get hung for this, possibly, but I have to say/write: Alan Moore does not do cosmic well. He articulates well, he engineers and plans well, but... I have never read a Moore piece of anything longer than an average comics single, that had any shrapnel without a preplanned trajectory that kinda robs it of the impetus. Which, isn't bad, necessarily, but it wouldn't make for good Fantastic Four.
Unless it was pastiche and send-up, and then, that's not good FF, it's good pastiche and parody of FF.
 
 
Aertho
19:02 / 11.03.06
I can see the not-doing-cosmic well comment... he doesn't really do sci-fi, it's all just dressing for heart drama. I can see him starting out cosmic, and then finding out halfway through that it's just an imaginal planet or something, and the "cosmic" turns "astral".
 
 
Cowboy Scientist
01:38 / 18.03.06
So, something I think Morrison is more suited to, than Moore. I'm going to get hung for this, possibly, but I have to say/write: Alan Moore does not do cosmic well. He articulates well, he engineers and plans well, but... I have never read a Moore piece of anything longer than an average comics single, that had any shrapnel without a preplanned trajectory that kinda robs it of the impetus. Which, isn't bad, necessarily, but it wouldn't make for good Fantastic Four.
Unless it was pastiche and send-up, and then, that's not good FF, it's good pastiche and parody of FF.

I agree, now that you put it that way. As you say, I don't remember any good cosmic stuff by Moore, except maybe some issues of Supreme (right now I'm thinking about the one with Gorrl the living galaxy), but those are the exeption, not the rule.
 
 
matthew.
03:33 / 18.03.06
cosmic stuff

Does those few issues of Swamp Thing count? When Swampie gets shafted outta Gotham and Earth by some sort of weapon Luthor designed in nine minutes and fifteen seconds, and Swampie gets put in a blue world, then a plant world, then a "robot" world (maybe?) and then finally Rann where he meets Adam Strange and Swampie gets the crap beaten out of him by Thanagarians Hawkman and Hawkgirl(Hawkwoman?).

I thought the way Moore handled the boredom and solitude of the blue world absolutely stunning. In an issue where NOTHING happens, I was riveted. The plant world episode was also amazing, as well as being rather cosmic.
 
 
smurph
04:11 / 18.03.06
more cosmic stuff

The issue of Top Ten about the teleporter accident was pretty cosmic, with the beings that play a game of galactic chess. I agree it's not Moore's usual beat.
 
 
matthew.
04:22 / 18.03.06
I think he's not great at cosmic stuff, but that Swamp Thing arc is tremendously good. Well... not that one issue where Swamp Thing goes to the robot planet. That was just pretentious.
 
 
eddie thirteen
04:33 / 18.03.06
It was pretty cool-looking, though. Which isn't really attributable to Moore, I'm just saying.
 
 
matthew.
04:47 / 18.03.06
TreborBee - here is the story on Miracleman, courtesy of Scott Tipton:

After Capt. Marvel (Shazam!) is forced out of publication in the US in the '50s, the character is revised by artist Mick Anglo and published in England as Marvelman. Marvelman is published there for about 10 years.

Dez Skinn's publishing company hires Alan Moore to revive Marvelman for the British market in the 1980s. The Marvelman comics are reprinted in the U.S. by Eclipse Comics. In the U.S., Marvel Comics won't allow the name "Marvelman" to be used, so the character and series name is changed to "Miracleman."

Eclipse, Alan Moore and artist Alan Davis each owned 1/3 of the Miracleman property. Davis later sold his share to Eclipse as well. When Moore left the series and Neil Gaiman began writing it, Moore transferred his ownership rights in the character to Gaiman and his collaborator, Mark Buckingham. When Eclipse went bankrupt, Todd McFarlane purchased all their assets, including their characters. So as it stands now, McFarlane and Gaiman each apparently own a piece of Miracleman, although complicating matters is the fact that original publisher Dez Skinn now claims that Eclipse's ownership in the character has now reverted to him, making McFarlane's part questionable, as well as the fact that Mick Anglo has now resurfaced, claiming he owns all rights to Marvelman/Miracleman.

Gaiman wrote 1602 to pay for the legal bills of all this....
 
 
The Natural Way
16:09 / 18.03.06
Smurf, I think the point isn't Moore's subject matter (which is often pretty cosmic), but the fact that his work's so rationable, so knowable, so contained and neat, there's no room for mystery. For the unknown.
 
  

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