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A Thread of Its Own

 
 
alas
14:57 / 07.03.06
In the Conversation'sFeminism 101 thread I somewhat jokingly said that everyone should read A Room of One's Own (1929) by Virginia Woolf. I was then asked in a pm, to explain, "why? why particularly that one [book]?" I asked if the poster minded if I answered hir questions here, and so here we go.

So, first, a reminder that I initially plugged the book in the context of feminism, presenting it as an assignment:

it's quite funny, it's not very long (although her sentences sometimes are, but that's just good practice) maybe 120 pages? Please pay particular attention to her argument that women's criticism of men/male activities is 1) less frequent but more visible than male critique of women, and 2) often met with a disproportionate, frequently even dare I say panicked male response, in our culture. Then come back and let's talk--here or in the quiet old books forum. I'll bring the tea, if one of you men will bring the crumpets.

(And, btw, I have a nice pot of tea brewing as promised. Did someone else bring some treats?)

Woolf's humor is subtle and quite pleasureable, and her argument is that you can't understand the contemporary relationships between men and women, you can't even understand men and women, full stop, unless you have a material understanding of history: basic questions like: who has had money? why haven't women had money? what's been the effect of women not having money?

And, in particular, she's addressing a group of young college women, so she's warning them that people's ability to write and produce complex texts has been remarkably dependent, it would seem, on their ability to have time and privacy and financial support and a kind of physical and intellectual free rein--which very few people have been willing to grant to women in the past. (Her metaphor for this mix of time, privacy, freedom and finance, is "£500 and a room of one's own with a lock on the door")

But, despite there being these grave differences in access to the things that have allowed for the production of Shakespeares and Professors, male critics continue to assert that it is impossible for women to write well. This strikes Woolf as poor reasoning.

But this faulty reasoning, this blindness to history, has a root, she argues in the functions women serve for men. For, Woolf argues, beyond women's being as they are due to material conditions, men have needed women to serve some very critical functions for their own work. Here's one of my favorite passages:

"Life for both sexes--and I looked [out the window] at them, shouldering their way along the pavement--is arduous, difficult, a perpetual struggle. It calls for giganitc courage and strength. More than anything, perhaps, it calls for confidence in oneself. Without self-confidence, we are as babes in the cradle. And how can we generate this imponderable quality, which is yet so invaluable, most quickly? By thinking that other people are inferior to oneself. By feeling that one has some innate superiority--it may be wealth, or rank, a straight nose, or the portrait of a grandfather by Romney--for there is no end to the pathetic devices of the human imagination--over other people. Hence the enormous importance to a patriarch, who has to conquer, who has to rule, of feeling that great numbers of people, half the human race indeed, are by nature inferior to himself. It must indeed be one of the chief sources of his power."

I like that passage because it does begin on common ground: we are all struggling here. Life is not easy for anyone. I still think we regularly need to be reminded of that.

She then goes on to quote a male friend, a "modest" good sort of man, who seemed, to her, disproportionately upset by a passage in which Rebecca West apparently implied that "men are snobs." Here's Woolf's analysis of the situation:

The exclamation [of my friend] . . . was not merely the cry of wounded vanity; it was a protest against some infringement of his power to believe in himself. Women have served all these centuries as looking glasses possessing the magic and delicious power of reflecting the figure of man at twice his natural size. Without that power, probably the earth would be swamp and jungle. The glories of all our wars would be unknown . . . Whatever their use in civilised societies, mirrors are essential to all violent and heroic action.

Women, she is partly arguing, have functioned in a peculiar way to prop up the patriarchy, and we have partly done that only by reflecting back to men a pleasing image of themselves: by smiling and flattering and being very very politic in whatever critiques we may have. If a few women become more overt in their critique, even calm and jovial men tend to get very upset by that, because it's not just about the issue at hand, it's about deep issues of identity.

In fact, she argues that these very notions of "man" and "woman" are thus known and knowable only through their cultural trappings; that if the cultural trappings are radically changed, these "timeless" identities will disappear in some vital ways, becoming something we can't quite imagine, but certainly radically different than the Victorian womanhood of her own childhood.

And, finally, on a larger scale, the text was, and is, especially important, then, because, as the passage above hints, it explored the possibility of a linkage between patriarchal structures in Western families, the structures of Western cultures and Western imperialism.

And it does all this with wit and irony and humor. And, moreover, its mix of personal narrative, historical discussion, fictionalizing, and logical argument was almost without precedent, althought it has subsequently had deep effects on both academic argumentation style (in the humanities, anyway) and the broader tradition of the essay.

Now, Woolf's approach is not without it's own problematics, and Woolf's work has been critiqued for the way it, too, reinforces "appropriate" female voice and tone*, and mostly unconsciously reifies class divisions and racialized modes of thinking, among other things. Her analysis of the relationships between patriarchy and imperialism, for example, has needed to be supplemented and challenged by the voices of people who have been on the receiving end of imperialism. But it remains a work that is deeply important, and one that I love. I hope others will take some time to read it and talk it over with me.

Now, do you fancy a cup of tea?

* Here, I'm thinking especially of Adrienne Rich's critique of Woolf, as articulated in her essay "When We Dead Awaken: Writing as Re-Vision."
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
15:45 / 07.03.06
I read it a few years back, so I have to dig it out of the Monolithic Private Library. More once I have.
 
 
alas
16:15 / 07.03.06
Great! By the way, I did some advertising for this thread in the F101 thread, where I said I'd be willing to entertain questions from people who admit they haven't read the book. Like all book clubs, it's ideal if you've read it, but it's not necessarily going to be pointless if you haven't, or haven't read it completely. (Or if it's been awhile and you're a little fuzzy on the details.)

The main thing is, if you haven't read the book, it's probably good to admit that, and confine yourself to genuine questions, and, as usual, don't attempt to derail the discussion away from a focus on AROO, Woolf, Woolf's other works, the feminist, anti-imperialist, etc., arguments that have followed/responded to her work, etc...
 
 
Aertho
16:26 / 07.03.06
I've just asked my boss to loan me her copy. Chad, signing up.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
17:43 / 07.03.06
There aren't any copies at the branch I'm working at today, so I need to go and actually hunt for it at home. I'm pretty sure I know where it is. But, O/T: I have only vague memories of Oxbridge and associated environs, and I like to be an informed commentator, so...

I think we might want to (pointedly) include Orlando in this conversation for the main character's shifting gender and how that relates to hir status in the society presented in the story. But is that too close to diluting the feminist focus of the thread with queer theory & transfeminism?
 
 
Aertho
18:00 / 07.03.06
oh you meant here.

If this is intended to be a reading group like a Book Club, I'd prefer to stick to one book at a time. I've not read any Woolf before, and I'd like to be introduced slowly and engage the book as its own thing. Comparisons are bound to happen, but I barley have enough attention to focus on one book.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
19:06 / 07.03.06
Those were concurrent thoughts, this and what I PMed you, Cass. I think starting another thread on gender shifting in literature and myth (including male pseudonyms) might be a better idea than addressing Orlando here.
 
 
alas
20:06 / 07.03.06
Let's try to keep the initial portion of this discussion on A Room, and if people want to make allusions to other works, just bear in mind that many people here won't have read them, so, at least initially, let's keep them fairly brief and contextualized.

It may be helpful to know, however, that Orlando, which focuses on a gender-shifting central character, was published in 1928, a few months before Woolf gave, in October, the series of lectures at the two women's colleges in Cambridge University, Newnham and Girton, that would be expanded to A Room. Both texts were produced after Woolf had experienced a romantic relationship with Vita Sackville-West. Additionally, Woolf had recently gone to court (but was not called up) to testify on behalf of Radclyffe Hall and her book, The Well of Loneliness, which had been brought up on obscenity charges due to lesbian content. Writing about women loving women was very risky at this time.

Same-sex desire and radical gender questioning (if not transgender issues per se), are at least alluded to in AROO, and clearly these issues were very much foregrounded in her life during this time. The work presents a radical, deconstructive argument about gender, the narrator quietly takes on several different personae in the course of the book (all female, in this case), and many readers definitely see sly allusions to same-sex desire in various places in the book. I'm eager to hear your thoughts on all these topics!

Those of you who like a little sense of biography may want to look at a chronology of Woolf's life like this one.
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:16 / 08.03.06
On the advice of Alas I brought this at the weekend and am about half way through now. I'm really enjoying it.

I think, if I'm being honest, I was expecting a humourless polemic, and I'm glad that it punched a dirty, great hole through that particular prejudice to feminist literature. She's funny, witty, and makes so many good points the book could qualify as a hedgehog.

I'll post about some specific parts when I get home tonight.
 
 
The Falcon
21:43 / 08.03.06
I'm pretty sure I've read this, but don't have it in the house; maybe a passage in a Norton or the novel's at the 'rents. 'Zis the one with the Bloomsbury group parodies, like the Bertie Russell character who can't 'get through the alphabet'?
 
 
alas
22:41 / 08.03.06
I think I may be missing some British Pop Culture 101 references, but Woolf is part of Bloomsbury, and there's a character in her novel, To the Lighthouse, Mr. Ramsay, who is a professor spending his summer holiday in a big house with his huge family and several other adult visitors, including a woman artist and some male alcolytes. Someone, I think Mrs. Ramsay? or is it the artist?, realizes that Mr. Ramsay's thought works in a straight line, moving as if through the alphabet, and cannot make it past the letter R. It's great to make it to R, many people only ever make it to M, or N, or O, or even P, but still,....it's just R.

Does that address your question? The passage in question has to do with the snarled issue of gendered approaches to thinking, which she explores in A Room as well: the question of do men and women "think" differently, and, if they seem to, to what degree is this a product of what they are conditioned, and given access, to being able to do? Are there advantages to the way that women tend to be trained into thinking, which we would do well as a culture to pay attention to? Or are these seemingly "female" modes of thinking purely a response to patriarchal control and limited opportunity?
 
 
Olulabelle
19:00 / 10.03.06
Sadly, and like an awful lot of books, I read this when I was about 14. My house was full of books that 'one should read' because my Mother was and is an avid reader. My teenage years were spent reading a great many adult books that I probably didn't really get.

Now I think, "oh, I've read that" about heaps of books when in actual fact I haven't really, not in this well-rounded adult headspace, anyway.

Accordingly, I shall sign up for reading it here.

You probably didn't need to know any of that apart from the last sentence.
 
 
HCE
00:02 / 13.03.06
Just started this morning. Back soon.
 
 
HCE
06:46 / 14.03.06
Just putting these here for safekeeping.

p4 "At any rate, when a subject is highly controversial -- and any question about sex is that -- one cannot hope to tell the truth. One can only show how one came to hold whatever opinion one does hold. One can only give one's audience the chance of drawing their own conclusions as they observe the limitations, the predjucies, the idiosyncracies of the speaker."

p8 "That a famous library has been cursed by a woman is a matter of complete indifference to a famous library."

p12 "Nothing was changed; nothing was different save only -- here I listened with all my ears not entirely to what was being said, but to the murmur or current behind it."

p17 "And if any one complains that prunes, even when mitigated by custard, are an uncharitable vegetable (fruit they are not), stringy as a miser's heart and exuding a fluid such as might run in misers' veins who have denied themselves wine and warmth for eighty years and yet not given to the poor, he should reflect that there are people whose charity embraces even the prune."
 
 
alas
18:00 / 14.03.06
Heh heh. I love those quotations. I will be very interested to hear what you make of them.
 
 
HCE
00:52 / 15.03.06
I'm only a third of the way in, but I am finding that a lot of what I read seems to tie back in to things I'm seeing around here, or elsewhere in my life. Isn't that a nice trick? To be Virgina Woolf -- to be of her age and class and culture and era -- and to write a book that's so immediately resonant to a 34-year-old semi-educated Iranian/American bicultural woman in Los Angeles in 2006?

Or maybe it's sad. I'm not sure. Things are better, in some ways, but I think also worse in some ways. More later.
 
 
illmatic
10:56 / 16.03.06
I've also just started this. Was a bit baffled by the "humming noise" alluded to at the luncheon party, and it's relevance to the poetry of Tennyson and Rosetti, butmaybe this will become clear in a few pages.
 
 
HCE
16:39 / 16.03.06
I think the humming noise is the ambient sense of culture in general and poetry in particular working on and through people.

Maybe?
 
 
illmatic
19:11 / 16.03.06
Cheers Fred. Think I'll go back and re-read that section. (When I can switch off this damned message board).

One thing I was shocked by was the Beadle banning VW from walking on the turf of the quad. I know theoretically stuff like that happened (or is still happening, depending on where in the world you are), but it being reminded of it shocked me a little.
 
 
HCE
19:03 / 20.03.06
Don't die yet, thread! Only twenty pages left, if I can ever get to them.
 
 
illmatic
15:44 / 24.03.06
So, who's finished?

Thoughts .... soon.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
16:32 / 24.03.06
I've half-inched Illmatic's copy and will join in soon...
 
 
illmatic
16:52 / 24.03.06
This is why I can't add those "thoughts" so tantalizingly alluded to above.
 
 
Evil Scientist
17:22 / 28.03.06
So, who's finished?

Me!

Well, actually I finished a few days ago but a quick prod from Illmatic on another thread has goaded me into posting action!

Was drawn in by the first few chapters. I liked how she took the reader/listener along with her on her preparation for her talk on women in theatre, and in doing so makes her points. Her comparisons of the financial structures of "Oxbridge" and "Fernham" universities, and the explanation of why there was so little literature from the female POV (or rather literature that wasn't written from a male perspective of what a female POV was like).

I felt that the book suffered a very brief lull when she started writing about the Mary Carmichael novel. But I have a feeling that might owe more to the fact that the book was originally composed from two separate papers, and I presume that this is where the two papers come together. Probably just me.

I felt like she was writing to the Mary Carmichael's of the world towards the end and it's a potent moment when she ties back into the main theme with the lines:

Give her another hundred years, I concluded, reading the last chapter - people's noses and bare shoulders showed naked against a starry sky, for someone had twitched the curtain in the drawing room - give her a room of her own and five hundred a year, let her speak her mind and leave out half that she now puts in, and she will write a better book one of these days. She will be a poet, I said, putting Life's Adventure, by Mary Carmichael, at the end of the shelf, in another hundred years' time.
 
 
alas
21:13 / 15.04.06
I'm hoping that this thread has just taken a little break and not actually died. I thought of Woolf today when I was reading reviews of Caitlin Flanagan's new book, "To Hell With All That: Loving and Loathing Our Inner Housewife," which--having read Flanagan's writings in the Atlantic Monthly in particular--I admit I am predisposed to loathe. (Her article entitled How Serfdom Saved the Women's Movement: Dispatches From the Nanny Wars in particular made my skin crawl with its self-righteous, ultimately conservative bent, cloaked in a pretense of anti-colonialism.)

Although the review's title is a bit cringe-worthy"The Happy Hypocrite," in Salonby Joan Walsh seems to get at many of the reasons I get so irritated by Flanagan. To wit, Flanagan claims to be a "stay at home mom," & is blatantly contemptuous of non-stay-at-home-mothers, while admitting that while staying at home, she has a nanny, a gardener, housekeeping help, while not fully admitting to a Phyllis-Schlaffley like career of writing magazines and books about why women shouldn't work.

Anyway, Walsh states near her conclusion...Lots of feminist writers have rebuked big-name editors for giving the anti-feminist Flanagan such great perches -- the New Yorker, the Atlantic, and now a hyped book. I don't usually bother second-guessing other editors. But it's hard not to agree with Daphne Merkin, who told Abraham she thinks Flanagan is the brainy-mag "it girl" of the moment (and, yes, apparently there can only be one) because she's a "throwback to a less threatening, more reassuring kind of woman writer," one who has infinite sympathy for the troubles -- "call it the 'ache,'" Merkin told Abraham slyly -- of being a man.

And I was back to Woolf. Woolf who wrote the passage I quoted above about the pressure on women to be a mirror reflecting men back at twice their natural size. Woolf who wrote in the short essay "Professions for Women" (1931, two yrs after A Room) about the need to kill the "Angel in the House" in order to be able to write:

Directly, that is to say, I took my pen in my hand to review that novel by a famous man, she slipped behind me and whispered: “My dear, you are a young woman. You are writing about a book that has been written by a man. Be sympathetic; be tender; flatter; deceive; use all the arts and wiles of our sex. Never let anybody guess that you have a mind of your own. Above all, be pure.” And she made as if to guide my pen. I now record the one act for which I take some credit to myself, though the credit rightly belongs to some excellent ancestors of mine who left me a certain sum of money—shall we say five hundred pounds a year?—so that it was not necessary for me to depend solely on charm for my living. I turned upon her and caught her by the throat. I did my best to kill her. My excuse, if I were to be had up in a court of law, would be that I acted in self–defence. Had I not killed her she would have killed me. She would have plucked the heart out of my writing. For, as I found, directly I put pen to paper, you cannot review even a novel without having a mind of your own, without expressing what you think to be the truth about human relations, morality, sex. And all these questions, according to the Angel of the House, cannot be dealt with freely and openly by women; they must charm, they must conciliate, they must—to put it bluntly—tell lies if they are to succeed. Thus, whenever I felt the shadow of her wing or the radiance of her halo upon my page, I took up the inkpot and flung it at her. She died hard. Her fictitious nature was of great assistance to her. It is far harder to kill a phantom than a reality. She was always creeping back when I thought I had despatched her. Though I flatter myself that I killed her in the end, the struggle was severe; it took much time that had better have been spent upon learning Greek grammar; or in roaming the world in search of adventures. But it was a real experience; it was an experience that was bound to befall all women writers at that time. Killing the Angel in the House was part of the occupation of a woman writer.

There is a self-serving dishonesty that I find in conservative women writers like Flanagan that makes me extremely angry. Flanagan believes that mother-love is always wonderful, never potentially smothering. That there's nothing problematic about being bathed in the attention of one person, and that such a love doesn't come with strings attached: "I sacrificed for you so I could bathe you in my love." (I.e., she never sees that it implicitly says, "Now you owe me" or at least "Be Grateful." But the conclusion to her book certainly paints this kind of love as a simple quid-pro-quo: "I sacrifice for you, therefore you will nurse me through cancer.")

Woolf, a hundred years earlier, sensed and wrestled so honestly with the pressure of the loving, Angelic mother figure of her own (this struggle--the love/hate of that relationship--is especially clear in her novel To The Lighthouse, which we've mentioned above). Writers like Flanagan simplify and distort both the past and the presence of that struggle, and then laugh all the way to the bank on the contemporary equivalent of the £500 she all but denies having earned and also claims not to really need... and shakes her finger at pretty much all other women.

But male editors (in the US, anyway) seem to eat this shit up.
 
 
Char Aina
02:29 / 12.12.06
this book has been sitting in my 'thank-you-amazon-fuck-you-father-time' pile since it was recomended, about nine months ago.
i've barely opened it, but already i'm beginning to get why you recomended it. perhaps more tomorrow, once i've had a chance to delve deeper.

i'm sorry it took me to get to this, especially after i was talking to you about it. being the person who asked the question you opened with, i kinda feel i should have been in this thread a while ago. i hope you haven't been expecting me all this time.

(stale crumpets, cold tea... i feel such a cad.)
 
 
alas
00:32 / 13.12.06
Indeed, you should feel like a cad, because, after lo these many months the tea is but dust, cobwebed over, mice have been nibbling on the crumpets, I am like a pathetic Miss Havisham, presiding here in my decaying old wedding dress, pinching all your ears and demanding you kneel at my feet and kiss my rings. But, ah, here I am, ever eager to discuss A Room. So, toksik, feet to the fire now, come back! come back! And, oh ye other quiet 'lithers, come ye back as well.

I've stoked the fire, and am trying to sweep some of this dust and dead angel corpses under the rug.
 
  
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