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Love or crush?

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My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

14:38 / 06.03.06

Oh yeah: thanks! Made me feel nice.

15:56 / 06.03.06

Therefore Seth will never ask anyone out ever.

Bugger. I was hoping no-one would notice that.

And yes, part (but nowhere near all) of the reason I'm putting myself through all this self-examination is because I'm frightened of asking her out.

16:33 / 06.03.06

It's your birthday. Nothing can go wrong.

*

16:34 / 06.03.06

Isn't there always the possibility, with limerence, that it could develop into something more than that? Is that worth the risk?

Ex

16:41 / 06.03.06

Still, the whole "I want you to be happy even if it's without me" thing is probably more of an ideal than a realizable (sp?) goal.

I'd add: '...if you have absolutely rock-solid self-esteem.' Otherwise, the whole 'I want you to be happy without me!' thing can be a sign not that you're selfless but that you're selfhating.
(This is all from my limited perspective, and not intended as a poke in the eye.)
So although it sounded nice, especially with the badgers, I'm not sure that you can judge the crush/love distinction on the altruism of the crusher. Righteous self-abnegation can fuel crushes more effectively than a glimpse of Calvin Klein waistband. And it means you can have a hallucinated relationship of sorts (even if only one of self-sacrifice) with the crushee without having to seriously engage with the posibilities of rejection, or conversation, or any of that icky stuff.

Badgers, though. That would be different. I'd probably pack my partner lunch if they were eloping with badgers.

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

17:20 / 06.03.06

Righteous self-abnegation can fuel crushes more effectively than a glimpse of Calvin Klein waistband.

I absolutely agree. Personally my self-esteem is nowhere near "rock solid", and the biggest problem with my definition is probably this kind of potential dysfunctional...ality...ism. There's a word there somewhere.

So B's probably better off with the badger than with me anyway

This is a great example of what you're talking about and I should be slapped until I see sense.

gee, wish B's date had gone better

This, however, still feels to me like something I should be proud of. I genuinely like B and was feeling a bit bad that the date was somewhat unpleasant, as an instinctive reaction.

A misty grey area between two poles? Feeling both love and infatuation at once? Or a conflict resulting from the fact that I've attempted to define what might be the most subjective and abstract of concepts and my definition is, unsurprisingly, inadequate to explain reality?

17:59 / 06.03.06

It's your birthday. Nothing can go wrong.

Besides being thousands of miles away from her and on a different continent? You can't ask someone out by phone, fax, text or email just so you can emotionally blackmail them to not turn you down because it's your birthday! I'm pretty much a no manipulation, no taking advantage when they're drunk kinda guy.

'Cept that one time.

18:06 / 06.03.06

Who's talking about blackmail? Just ride that birthday vibe.

18:10 / 06.03.06

You should probably just ask her out you know Seth.

Worst case scenario, you'll get a book of lovely, if somewhat morbid fleurs de mal-type poetry out of it, or an album or so's worth of punishing, post-rock, 'recorded in garden shed at the end of tether, with bottle of moonshine always handy' acoustic blues. Of which, in either case, there are never enough.

This kind of thread can be like a graveyard of dreemz - don't let it happen!

18:22 / 06.03.06

The difference between a crush and love is that one lasts longer than the other.

21:07 / 06.03.06

My overriding internal panic over 'what is this thing that happened to us' is based on a near obsession with the person (which probably isn't that healthy) and that we're both seemingly similarly afflicted. [...]But of course were I too write this in their presence I would say that my loving appreciation of their godlike being commends elevation from Samsara and into some timeless blissful void of union and individual transcendence.

It's rather icky of me to "critique" your emotional experience here, but let me say that this kind of sentiment gives me pause. Perhaps there is a spiritual element in your experience of love that I just can't relate to, because, frankly, I'm not a very spiritual person... but describing anyone as "godlike" strikes me as worrisome, and possibly an indication that you've idealized the person and therefore probably not come to know them fully, since of course all humans are flawed and fallible. How can you truly love someone if you can't see that ze is just a human being?

As to mice's comment that ze's not experienced healthy love as something more intense than a crush yet not allconsuming... in my opinion, love is not more intense than a crush. But it's more satifying and more authentic.

21:23 / 06.03.06

Are crushes really so horrible? The way they're described in this thread makes them sound sort of awful and psychotic. I think of a crush as a temporary, heightened awareness of and attraction to another person, and not necessarily a sexual attraction. I would describe my enthusiasm for a new friend as a crush -- there's that feeling that your crushee is unusually wonderful, clever, appealing, etc. When you're in love, you see your lover's faults but that doesn't stop you from being in love. You're more inclined to view them with compassion than to deny shortcomings.

Being in love is a more profound attachment and there's an element of interdependence, but it's certainly possible to remain in love with somebody who has cooled toward you. Being in love is a personal experience as well as a social interaction. Feelings aren't so black & white as they're made out to be, and sometimes people don't themselves know how they feel. It's great to try to think of love as composed not only of desire and longing, but also caring and listening -- but you know, everybody's going to experience and practice it a bit differently.

14:42 / 12.03.06

Well, I'm glad you got back safe, Seth. Now I guess it's time to ask her out.

14:49 / 12.03.06

Let's hope that while you're thinking about asking her out that you're not walking home late at night and she picks you up cuz she sees you walking down the street but you notice there's someone else in the car and it's a guy named Tim, and when you ask around you find out they've been "hanging out" recently. Let's hope that doesn't happen.

16:16 / 12.03.06

Oh, sorry. I'm sorry, Seth.

Whisky Priestess

20:49 / 12.03.06

The difference between a crush and love is that one lasts longer than the other.

Yeah, and my vote's for the crush. When you get what you want, sooner or later you don't want it any more. You can't want* it any more if you already have it.

Of course, I could just be talking about desire. But what's the troilist relationship between love, crush and desire anyway?

*ambiguous "lack" intentional

20:57 / 12.03.06

You can't want* it any more if you already have it.

You think? I'm not so sure.

00:10 / 13.03.06

Mm. Indeed, one could say an equal desire to sustain/maintain that emotion, that need, is wanting it while having it.

08:36 / 13.03.06

(coming late to the party):

There's also "secretly in love with" which I've recently been introduced to. So: two people really like each other. They hang out all the time. There is perhaps also (to external observers) a certain frisson but that is far less to the two people inside the weird relationship. They do not really ever want to date or fuck - but again, this is lost to people outside it. This is "secretly in love with" and differs from a crush in that neither party wants to fulfil the relationship.

Desperate Math's "want to date but not to fuck" is very similar to this.

In terms of crush versus love: if it comes right back at you - and often harder than you threw it - it's probably love. If you're always transmitting, never receiving, it's probably a crush. If you're always transmitting and always explaining to yourself why it's not coming back, it's definitely a crush.

Back in my university days, I developed what could probably be defined as infatuations with a few girls. For a whole variety of reasons, I wasn't so hot at distinguishing them from something a little better founded in reality. In the end, I overcame total fear and just asked them out anyway. Literally, broached the subject in conversation.

What I found was this: if you can't tell the difference beforehand, you will during the asking. It all makes sense as you listen to yourself framing the words, seeing how you're behaving, watching the reaction. Whilst this isn't a hugely useful thing to say given Seth's situation, it may apply to others: if you're not sure about someone, and you don't really care if bridges get burned (as is often the case), I'd just ask. You learn a lot in the process.

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