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Are people meeting in the astral at a place called "the board"?

 
  

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Quantum
12:35 / 06.03.06
Most people don't know the astral plane from Adam's off ox ... I tend to be somewhat skeptical of what people claim to be doing while tooling around without their bodies. Woodsurfer

I'd agree with you there. I am willing to dismiss the notion out of hand myself, Astral LARPing seems about as likely as Goetic Ham-sandwich Summoning. Silly rumour.
 
 
Sekhmet
14:15 / 06.03.06
It seems to me that what most people are reacting dismissively to is the RPG-ing-in-the-ether concept, rather than the idea of a shared astral space. Am I misreading that?
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
14:26 / 06.03.06
I'm more prepared to accept the idea of a shared astral space - despite not having really heard any particularly convincing accounts of it that don't just sound like collusion - than I'm prepared to accept the idea that this space both exists and is being used by loads of mysterious unidentified adepts as the setting for a live action roleplaying game - of all things.
 
 
Quantum
14:54 / 06.03.06
Absolutely, shared astral space is not a new concept, A D & D* is.

(Astral Dungeons & Dragons)
 
 
--
16:34 / 06.03.06
Troll? You must be fucking joking... As I see it, a troll goes out of their way to provoke or irritate, something I have no interest in doing. I was merely defending what I perceived to be the original intent of the thread as I saw it. Did I percieve wrong? Perhaps... I'm not perfect. It's all well and good to ask lots of questions, but it seemed that this thread just instantly jumped into mockery and sarcasm, as I've so often seen threads degenerate here, rather then asking serious, well-intentioned questions. IMO, it's stuff like that that has given this place the bad rep it's gotten in some quarters over the years. Rather then treat the original question as a serious matter of intellectual curiosity, it just seemed to me that some people just wanted to prove "Oh, let's prove for the umpteenth time how clever, witty and self-deprecating we can be! Aren't we all comedians?" That's what I meant when I talked about a snobbish reaction. Was I wrong to generalize? Yeah, I was... I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong.

Frankly, if some pretentious kids want to create this "Board" just to have a little fun playing astral RPGs, I don't see the harm in that, or why one should cast disdain on it. It's no more silly then a lot of other things I've seen get discussed on here, myself included.
 
 
electric monk
17:09 / 06.03.06
May I? Thank you.



Troll? You must be fucking joking... As I see it, a troll goes out of their way to provoke or irritate, something I have no interest in doing.

The epithet doesn't really depend on intent. Only result.

I was merely defending what I perceived to be the original intent of the thread as I saw it. Did I percieve wrong? Perhaps... I'm not perfect.

No, you're not and Yes, you did. This cuts a little close to the bone for you and here you are. You're over-reacting and you need to settle down.

It's all well and good to ask lots of questions, but it seemed that this thread just instantly jumped into mockery and sarcasm, as I've so often seen threads degenerate here, rather then asking serious, well-intentioned questions.

If Zoemancer is hurt or upset, I do hope that ze will tell us so. If you're hurt or upset, you're over-reacting and you need to settle down.

IMO, it's stuff like that that has given this place the bad rep it's gotten in some quarters over the years.

Now we'll never get dates with cheerleaders and jocks! Woe!

Rather then treat the original question as a serious matter of intellectual curiosity, it just seemed to me that some people just wanted to prove "Oh, let's prove for the umpteenth time how clever, witty and self-deprecating we can be! Aren't we all comedians?" That's what I meant when I talked about a snobbish reaction. Was I wrong to generalize? Yeah, I was... I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong.

Progress. Bless you.

Frankly, if some pretentious kids want to create this "Board" just to have a little fun playing astral RPGs, I don't see the harm in that, or why one should cast disdain on it. It's no more silly then a lot of other things I've seen get discussed on here, myself included.

Indeed. Now please. Calm.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
17:15 / 06.03.06
Good grief.

FWIW, I don't think you're a troll. I do think that you have a lot to learn and need to get down off your high horse, STAT.

Now, I don't really know where to start with that post, but let's have a go.

Frankly, if some pretentious kids want to create this "Board" just to have a little fun playing astral RPGs, I don't see the harm in that, or why one should cast disdain on it. It's no more silly then a lot of other things I've seen get discussed on here, myself included.

Right, you're making a couple of obvious assumptions here which I'd like to see you address. Assumption number one: That this Board thing exists, or is even possible. Assumption number two: That people with the ability to create such a thing would happily waste their time playing astral RPGs.

You may have genuine reasons for making these assumptions; perhaps, in the months following the demise of your Astral Home experiment, you had a change of heart and spent some time working on the project, maybe in the company of likeminded fellows, and are therefore speaking from personal experience or from information recieved from a trusted ally. If so, then I apologise unreservedly and I'm sure we'd all be delighted to read more. If, on the other hand, you're treating us to another exciting installment of What Sypha Reckons based on sweet f.a., you're probably going to get the Michael extracted as per usual.

As for the 'bad rep' this place has supposedly aquired, I really can't comment. If the Temple has a bad rep as a place where you can't just post lengthy and unsubstantiated speculation, where you have to back your ideas up somehow, then... well, I guess we'll just have to live with the shame.

Personally I'm happy to have a place where I know that my ideas (and my practice) will be examined by knowledgable individuals, critiqued, subjected to reasoned analysis, folded, spindled, mutilated, and maybe shot down in flames if they happen to suck. If I wanted to disappear up my own backside in a flurry of self-regard there are plenty of other fora where weak ideas go unchallenged and bad or nonexistant practice is never criticised. I prefer this one.

(I'd also point out, once again, that some of the people you're attacking here have gone out of their way to help you in the past. The fact that you've contrived to alienate them does not make them the Bad Guys.)
 
 
Ganesh
18:41 / 06.03.06
IMO, it's stuff like that that has given this place the bad rep it's gotten in some quarters over the years.

Would these be friends-only LiveJournal "quarters", perchance?
 
 
Dead Megatron
19:02 / 06.03.06
Frankly, if some pretentious kids want to create this "Board" just to have a little fun playing astral RPGs, I don't see the harm in that

Other than the complete waste of talent and energy, you mean? I know that if I knew how to astral-project myself, I'd be doing something more useful than something I can do by subscribing to "World of Warcraft"
 
 
Woodsurfer
22:16 / 06.03.06
It still sounds like an intriguing idea -- can anyone provide some clue as to the origin of the rumor (or whatever it is)? Nothing showed up in my searches.

Working from my own set of assumptions (hey, what else do I got?), it would seem unlikely that people (kids?) are "playing around" in some kind of RPG in an astral location. Rather that launching into the long-winded discourse I was about to deliver but deleted instead (lucky you), I'll just say that once you get past the inertia, self-doubt and delusion and start working in the higher planes, it tends to change your focus to matters of a bit more consequence. Maybe this is just 'cuz I tend to hang with the old fogeys, however.

-- Woody
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:27 / 07.03.06
If barbelith is so terrible, why do you keep coming back to it?

For the umpteenth time: The fundamental difference between your take on magic, and that of a lot of people who post here, is that - as you have admitted on other similar threads in the past - you don't actually practice magic. You don't really seem to do a great deal other than read about it - which is fine, but you don't seem to understand that your literary fantasies about magic do not carry the same weight as people's actual experiences of it.

The reason various posters have problems with the idea of "The Board" is not because "magic snob jocks" (whatever they are...) like throwing their weight around. It's because the notion doesn't really add up from where a lot of people are sitting. For instance, a bunch of kids might have the idea of creating "The Board" and playing an astral RPG - I can very easily imagine you having the idea yourself, in fact. But whether it would actually work and exist in any sense outside of wishful thinking, imagination and delusional group collusion is another matter.

I don't think I could do it. Assuming that I wanted to, even pulling out all the stops with a bunch of likeminded hardcore magicians helping me, I don't think it would work. And I suspect the Universe might be likely to kick my arse for being such a prick. Whether its worthwhile or valuable isn't the issue for me, I just don't think its magically viable. I feel I can forward this opinion on barbelith, because I do practice a bit of magic so I'm speaking from a basis of experience.

Magic just doesn't conform to my every fantasy and random idea about it, certain things are workable, certain things aren't. By doing a lot of results magic, you start to get a feel for what's likely to be effective, and what isn't going to cut it at all. You get a sense of what is plausible, what would be difficult, and what would be highly unlikely. You don't seem to have this ability to discriminate - which is not too surprising since you admittedly don't really practice. So people get riled at you for mixing up your literary imaginings about magic, with the experiential practice of it.

I really do think you are a troll because you are unwilling to accept that your made-up opinions on magic are not as valid as people's direct experiences of it. Your posts aren't much different from someone coming on here and asking us if we can shoot fireballs out of our noses or turn your mother-in-law into a chimp. No basis in reality. No experience behind it. We're speaking at crossed purposes. I think your behaviour is doubly trollish because you clearly have certain grievances with people on barbelith, you have a checkered history in all of the forums, and it comes across as if you're sudden interest in this thread is just a flimsy excuse to publicly bemoan the awful bullies who gave you a hard time once. If you are not a troll, stop acting like one.
 
 
Unconditional Love
13:05 / 07.03.06
I can turn your mother in law into a chimp, but it involves kidnapping, and althou a night in the zoo for your in laws might be magical and a night at home watching eastenders may be magical for a chimp. I dont fancy the prison aspect.

Why do you come back by the way, does barbelith mean whine and whinge like a kidnapped mother in law spending her night in the zoo to you.
 
 
Unconditional Love
13:08 / 07.03.06
Now the fireball nose thing would involve snorting lighter fuel, or tissue paper soaked in lighter fuel and then holding a lighter beneath your nose. Tiny little flaming balls being blown out, i can imagine it would look rather pretty.

But why do you keep coming back? i mean really, why?
 
 
--
14:16 / 07.03.06
Gypsy, I should have said that it was the Temple (and not really Barbelith as a whole) that's gotten a bad rep and certain quarters (and I'm not talking about my LJ which, I'd like to add, is NOT friends only.... anyone can reply, not that that has anything to do with the situation). It's also an error to say I have a checkered history in all the forums, as I've had no problems in "radio & music", "books", and "comics", just "Temple" and "Conversation". Furthermore, just because I haven't posted in Temple all that often doesn't mean I've been avoiding Barbelith, rather I've just been posting in some of the above forums. As for why I keep coming back, I feel the site still has potential, it's just it gets bogged down in stupid issues, like what kind of user names are acceptable or not. Also, I have friends on here. You make valid points, of course, and I freely admit that I don't really practice magic, but a more accurate statement would be is that I don't practice magic anymore. For a few years or so I was quite active and I did have many interesting experiences, and these are what I draw upon when I post comments on here. It's not like I've been some armchair magician all these years, only recently. Why I stopped is not relevant to this topic and it's complicated anyway, so I won't go there, but I will say that it had something to do with the fact that I became more interested in the literary fantasies then the more realistic aspects.

My chief problem with this thread is that people seem to see the concept of the "Board" as a waste of time (assuming it exists, if it works or not, whatever). But almost anything could be classified as a waste of time by someone else. I mean, my brothers collect basketball cards and spend hours boxing them up, which to me is waste of time incarnate, but it gives them pleasure. If someone enjoys doing something, does it qualify as a waste of time? Who decides what's time well spent and what isn't? Not all magick needs to be some huge world-changing movement.
 
 
electric monk
15:03 / 07.03.06
I'm tempted to ask, then, why you keep coming back to the Temple. I could understand lurking the Temple, sure. But why post? You don't seem to like it here very much. You also seem anxious to open old wounds and throw the blood around. Doesn't seem a sensible way to live up to that "potential" to me.

As for why I keep coming back, I feel the site still has potential, it's just it gets bogged down in stupid issues, like what kind of user names are acceptable or not.

Trolling or stupidity. In either case, I suggest you back away from that immediately.
 
 
Ganesh
16:10 / 07.03.06
I should have said that it was the Temple (and not really Barbelith as a whole) that's gotten a bad rep and certain quarters

See, I strongly suspect you're being disingenuous here, Sypha. It's a little like when you claimed, to Monk, that "a few other people" took the time to engage with you in your astral experiment - which might have come dangerously close to being interesting if you hadn't subsequently welched out of discussing those contributions openly because you'd lost interest, couldn't be arsed talking about them in "earth language" and because you had more pressing "intestinal issues". Shit-tee.

Did anyone other than Monk participate? If so, it was all rather muted and, I suspect, talked up by you at the time but amounting to not very much at all.

It's also an error to say I have a checkered history in all the forums, as I've had no problems in "radio & music", "books", and "comics", just "Temple" and "Conversation".

And the Policy. I think we pretty much consider you a waste of pixels there. It's probably true, though, that in the forums where you post the least, you haven't pissed as many people off.

It's grrreat that you feel the board still has "potential" (albeit bogged down with stupid - presumably non-intestinal - issues), but I suspect your repeated posting here merely reflects the general lack of any sort of meaningful social contact in your life - to the extent that even negative, sometimes hostile, interaction is better than no interaction at all. That behaviour alone would constitute a working definition of 'troll'.
 
 
Fell
16:23 / 07.03.06
I haven't heard of The Board, but then again I'm not proficient enough with my lucid dreaming/OBE workings to be able to participate anyhow.

I have read that Hakim Bey and his crew meet astrally at that old abandoned Nazi base in Northern Canada once a year. What they do? I dunno.
 
 
rising and revolving
16:30 / 07.03.06
For instance, a bunch of kids might have the idea of creating "The Board" and playing an astral RPG - I can very easily imagine you having the idea yourself, in fact. But whether it would actually work and exist in any sense outside of wishful thinking, imagination and delusional group collusion is another matter.

Okay, I'm going to take a slight tangent on all of this and engage with the idea of play as a magical act. I do think it's terribly valuable (to me, personally, at least) to approach some magical work with a playfulness and openmindness. The space's in which "Play" traditionally takes place are similar to magical spaces in many regards, too.

I think play is an especially important element of group work - think of it as the warm up exercises that actors do before a show. It helps to get everyone in synch and loosened up. In this framework, I've definately been involved in astral play in the past - half group guided meditation, half "play".

Heck, we've played hide-and-seek with constructs too - build something and see if other people can find it, or identify it, or smell it, or touch it.

Now, these sorts of exercises are great and productive. If only because they reveal how often you're wrong. Effectively, play aids in creating positive feedback loops with other people.

So, is an Astral RPG bonkers? Possibly. It's certainly a very poor definition for an activity I can begin to imagine taking place in that sort of space.
 
 
rising and revolving
16:32 / 07.03.06
Did anyone other than Monk participate? If so, it was all rather muted and, I suspect, talked up by you at the time but amounting to not very much at all.

Oh, I did.

Posted my results to Sypha, would have posted them here had he not subsequently thrown his hands up and canned the whole thing.

Still will, if Sypha has a copy of my PM. I don't think I do.
 
 
Ganesh
16:44 / 07.03.06
I'd be interested, R&R - and it's at least tangentially related to the thread topic.
 
 
electric monk
16:47 / 07.03.06
I'd be interested too.
 
 
illmatic
16:54 / 07.03.06
I spent a long time - everyday for a year in fact - creating an astral temple. I found the experience really useful, even if I went off on some misguided tangents. I never had any contact with other people through it but I never tried. I did try and do this with dreams and it didn't work - only tried once though. The astral temple though, at times, it did make my psyche come to life in quite an astonishing way.

I might post some stuff here, once I've figured out the limits of what I'm happy to disclose.

and Sypha, please avoid rotting the thread. If you don't like it, go elsewhere.
 
 
rising and revolving
18:13 / 07.03.06
I've asked Sypha to forward me the rundown - I didn't keep a copy, unfortunately. And I can barely remember the details... this stuff tends to fade quickly.
 
 
illmatic
18:21 / 07.03.06
Oh, forgot what I was going to add above. Something along the lines of when you do this stuff for awhile you soon realise that it's not in accord with your preconceptions/fantasties or what you've read. This is the point at which people who're a bit too attached to the fantasty give up (naming no names).

If you keep going the likelyhood is you'll learn something interesting. Equally important, you'll have your own experiences to speak from, and judge from.

For me, the idea of "the board" sounds too close to the preconception/fantasty idea end of the market. But, hey, I might be wrong.
 
 
Dead Megatron
20:04 / 07.03.06
I' be interested in those PMs too, even if in just a voyeuristic way...
 
 
--
04:48 / 08.03.06
Rising and Revolving PM:

"From my notes.

"SUTGE written on a veil before me. I seperate the veil and move forwards, it falls apart like the pages of a novel. Many sheafs of paper flying in multiple directions. I approach the gate, a broken path leading towards the front door. Each post besides the gate is capped with a wooden sphere, once painted green now fading. I place my hands upon them, and I grow large. Looking down at the house as it shrinks beneath my feet. I feel the light above me and see how the house is cut off from that light, wreated in shadows at my feet.

I allow myself to shrink again, walk up the pathway and open the door. Tendrils of white smoke drift out from the door, forming into claws that grasp at me. I take a moment to seal and protect myself, and they drift back, smoke again. I walk into the entry hall. Staircases lead in every direction, some at right angles to the floor - somewhat Escher like in their convulutions. I take one that leads deeper into the houses depths. I realise shortly in that I've lost my sense of direction. I approach dungeons - chained to the walls are huge twisted dog like creatures, snarling and roaring. As I see them, I realise that they are harmless. I release the chains from the nearest one, and he becomes smaller, a mere puppy who runs off. I release a couple more, and the same thing happens. The last one does not shrink, he rages off, smashing through walls as he goes.

I sense the heart of the house before I see it. I move towards it, passing through shattered and unshattered walls towards it. It is a great, beating heart as tall as I am, black with tar and filth, wrapped about a rusted column that stretches floor to ceiling. I make some changes, burning the blackness away from the heart. Probably overstepping my bounds, given I'm in someone else house. It changes and twists, falling into a more cartoon like heart before shattering into a glorious haze of crystal fragments that flow around the room, like a mirror ball on crack.

I leave."

Er, sorry about changing stuff. I really should have just looked, rather than touching - seems like bad ettiquette.

Mind you, I'd be interested to know if you perceive any changes...

R&R"

Monk's PM:

"Happy Belated JFK-Blown-Away Day, BTW.

Used the image you pointed me toward overlayed with a photo of you from your LJ as a visual focus. Your face would fade as I walked up the walk. I visualized that walk about 4-5 times before opening the front door and entering.

Started in the front of the temple at the opposite end of the sidewalk leading to the front door. Quick sunset. Nighttime and cloudless sky. The front lawn is disheveled, like a bad hair day. Thick patches of weeds, and uneven ground. Walk up the path and mount the steps of the porch (I see figures moving in lighted rooms on the second floor). This place is old, creaky, but in solid shape. No fear of plunging thru the porch planks. The double doors are a solid wood, maybe oak, with a raised oval on each. Grab the doorknob and turn. Door swings easily. I walk thru into a large foyer. Large rug, colored red and detailed in blacks, whites, and dull yellows, runs across the room and up the staircase opposite the door. The staircase comes to a landing then branches left and right and turns back again heading in the direction of the wall at my back. The rug also has arms that stretch to the left and right, forming an upside down cross. 100 to 200 feet past the staircase is the far wall. Some kind of massive metallic sculpture hangs on this wall, occassionally spouting steam. There is some kind of clockwork behind the walls. I can hear gears grinding softly. I walk up the staircase and take the left fork.

I briefly met a butler. At least, I think he was a butler. Didn't get a name, but he looked like a cartoony version of Eye-gore in 'Young Frankenstein'. He seemed happy to help me.

I also got the feeling that you (or a part of you) was in the house, huddled in a corner of some dank, unfurnished room and crying softly. I heard no crying, and was not able to find the room.

Curious to see how I did. Would like to see this posted in-thread, and you can point out where I went right and where I went wrong. I'm keeping a copy of this PM so I can check that this message is posted as-is."

RE:

'Kay, I'll copy and paste my PM to you into the thread. You can respond publicly there.

I can't say I count this as a success. While there are a few points of similarity, I'm tempted to chalk those up to us watching the same movies or something. I'd caution you, also, to not strain to see proof of success. Saying "the house may have created X" and such seems to be a strain, at least to me. Granted, I'm a n00b at this astral stuff, but I find a healthy bit of skepticism goes a long way. Let's take it back to the thread and see where there's room for improvement.

No rug, huh? I was pretty damn sure about the rug.

> Sure, you can post it in the thread if you want. Here's my impressions of what you said:
>
> The lawn is disheveled? Normally it isn't that bad but I haven't been there in awhile to look things over so maybe the place needs some maintenance. There are wood double doors that lead into a large foyer, and there is a staircase that leads to the second floor (for the record, there are 3 floors, but the third floor is pretty small: I imagine it to fill in the space of that weird square structure above the front door of the magician's house in Sandman. I'm not really sure if there's a basement, however... Most likely). However, I usually imagine the stairs to look like this: One set of stairs on the left and one on the right that both curve upwards (like an upside down "U") to a landing that leads to the second floor main hall (under the landing, directly across from the front entrance is a door that leads to the first floor main hall). I will tell you that when you open that door that steps into the main hall there is another double-door directly in front of you that opens up onto the grounds behind the estate. Also, I'm not aware of there being any sculptures of sorts in the foyer, but the place has a tendency to change around sometimes so you never know. Maybe one of the inhabitants was feeling artistic. Also, I've never encountered a butler before (never really saw a need for one as I don't get much visitors) but maybe the house decided to create one when someone else entered it. There are other inhabitants and truth be told, there are probably things living in that place I don't even know about. There are lots of side-rooms I haven't explored yet, for example.
>
> I hope this has been of some help to you. If you return, please tell me any further impressions you get of the place. Oh yeah, thanks for taking part in the experiment too.
>
> Cheers,
>
> James/Sypha
 
 
Ganesh
07:20 / 08.03.06
Two accounts, then. Perhaps they should be cut & pasted into Sypha's original 'astral' thread, to allow Monk and R&R to compare notes on their experiences there, should they wish to do so?
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:29 / 08.03.06
that old abandoned Nazi base in Northern Canada

Sorry to threadrot, but there's a what? I had no idea.
 
 
Quantum
08:57 / 08.03.06
Y'know, where Logan became Wolverine. No wait, where Hellboy got his horns. No wait...
 
  

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