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Blair and his god

 
 
sleazenation
16:42 / 03.03.06
So, Michael Parkinson has teased the revelation that Tony Blair 'prayed to God' over Iraqout of the Prime Minister during an interview due to be broadcast on 4/3/06.

So, what do people make of this revelation?
 
 
Mourne Kransky
17:28 / 03.03.06
The article doesn't record what God said in response. Shoddy reporting. We might assume therefore that God said, "Shock and awe them, Tone!" This despite the sixth commandment.

However, TB says, "The only way you can take a decision like that is to do the right thing according to your conscience." If you're going to decide for yourself, why would you go through the rigmarole of asking God in the first place?

It puzzles me, this professed religiosity.

Liked the story about Tony Booth wanting to roll a joint though.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
19:56 / 03.03.06
I have two words for Mr Blair on this issue. One is "Sutcliffe", the other is "Peter". Not sure if that's the right order, though... I think I'll ask my imaginary friend Mr Snuffalupagus.
 
 
johngault22
23:12 / 03.03.06
As a person who has been diagnosed with schizophrenia, I will just say takes one to know one & I think he has gone off the deep end.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:25 / 03.03.06
Also on the religious front- as a self-professed Christian, does that mean Tony got his answers from the New Testament God? Y'know, the one who, having already led His people from the wilderness and ensured that they spread, ditched all the old shit and got with the peace and forgiveness?

Or did he, like Stanley Kubrick (on so many occasions), decide to interpret a book without actually bothering to read the end?
 
 
Loomis
16:23 / 04.03.06
Sounds like a story over nothing. So he admitted he prays. So what? It's not like he did a Bush and said that God told him to invade Iraq. What's so weird about a Christian admitting that he prayed over a difficult decision? I don't think it has any relevance to whether one agrees or disagrees with his decision to go to war.
 
 
Ganesh
16:55 / 04.03.06
While I agree it's not exactly Yorkshire Ripper stuff, I think it does jar slightly in a country as broadly secular as the UK. Public figures may be Christian and may well pray over difficult decisions, but it's almost never talked about. This contrasts with (what I read about) politicians in the US, and Blair's admission of God-botherin' makes him seem more like one of theirs than one of ours - in that particular respect. It therefore harks back to the 'Bush's poodle' stuff.
 
 
SMS
02:04 / 05.03.06
Damn. I'm posting in the Switchboard again.

I think it might be helpful to understand what goes on when a Christian prays to God over a difficult decision. Or, rather, it might be helpful to understand what an atheist could recognize as going on when a Christian prays in this manner. Here's what (an atheist would perceive that) I would do:
I'd calm my mind, and ask something called God for guidance, to help me come to the right decision. My subconscious would then do some processing of the myriad variables that my conscious reasoning could not handle and deliver some results. Recent studies suggest that good complex decision-making requires using the subconscious mind, so one might excuse me for pretending like God is a part of the process.

Granted, anyone (like me) who believes she's praying to God would not find that explanation adequate because it lacks an explanation of the actual role of God in the process, but that's about what goes on.

Dr Evan Harris, a Liberal Democrat MP and honorary associate of the National Secular Society, said the comments were "bizarre" and warned against politicians making "references to deity" in public life.

This apparently means that a politician who believes in God ought to refrain from saying anything about it. I'm not sure what to make of this idea. If Blair is worshipping God, you would think that either people would not care or that people would wish to know about it. If people don't care, then there seems no reason that he should silence himself; if they wish to know, then there seems to be good reason to speak. Perhaps religion is understood as analogous to a good night of sex. Good for Blair if he has it, but let's not talk about it in interviews. I would guess that it's Blair's reluctance to talk about his relationship with God that makes answering the primary question of this thread so difficult. What impact does his religion make on UK foreign policy? Is it just prayer or does he subscribe to a particular notion of original sin that informs his anthropology? Does he put a lot of emphasis on the rapture (I'd be shocked, really, if he did)? What are the evils of war for Blair — the deaths or the disturbances of the soul that inevitably attend war? Does the soul naturally seek peace? Does worship of God constitute the highest human purpose and how well does the average Muslim do this compared with the average Christian or godless Brit? Can worship possibly be coerced? Does war prevent true worship of God?

I would guess we can answer exactly none of these questions about Blair's personal beliefs. Maybe we could find quotes of his describing the evils of war, but I'm betting they aren't precise enough to conclude firmly that loss of life is the primary evil of war.

Of course, if Blair spoke more frequently about God, we still might not be able to answer these questions, but it might give us something to work with. We know, for instance, that President Carter "worships the Prince of Peace." And I bet that if i bothered to read his new book, I'd find out a lot more about what that means for foreign policy.
 
 
SMS
02:15 / 05.03.06
If you're going to decide for yourself, why would you go through the rigmarole of asking God in the first place?
For me, the decision is mine in one sense, but the purpose of the prayer is to harmonize my will with that of God (or that which God's Word would have me do). The point is to direct my will to that which is infinite Wisdom, Love, etc. I mean, you can talk about whether infinite Wisdom, Love, etc aren't really distinct ideals which neither have ontological status nor causal power, but that's the crux of the difference between a theist and an atheist (to speak with sweeping generalizations). Supposing they are, then prayer of this kind makes some kind of sense.

I'm trying to be helpful. Maybe Booth had the right idea.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
16:48 / 05.03.06
Does anyone know if the Parkinson interview is available to download?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:02 / 05.03.06
Probably only via UKNova if you do Torrents.

Tony has already said that he was confident that when judged on Iraq by God he'll be found not guilty, it was roughly around the time public opinion started turning so he realised history might not judge him too well after all.

It's also quite a lawyerly thing, you can't get away with something but still be a little bit guilty, Blair's seeing it as a majority verdict, that God will see the good he's done as more important, vote in his favour and he won't have to do anything about all the Iraqis and servicepeople that died because he decided to support Shrubya.

But with Muslim tempers so inflamed, was it really smart for him to bring back up Christian-Crusader sentiments again? As ever Blair's cheerleader John Rentoul has spent the weekend trying to dial things back from this, Blair's statement didn't mean that much, it's all the nasty atheistic Fleet Street blowing it out of proportion, but I suspect that this was a misspeak on Blair's part that he didn't mean to make.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:46 / 05.03.06
Wonder if, when it comes to that reckoning, Mr Tony's face'll be a picture as the man upstairs' only begotten son says "let he who is without sin back the first occupational force", cos I reckon it will.

Sorry, I'll stop now on the Christian front.

As you were.
 
 
Spaniel
13:40 / 06.03.06
I have to say, Tony's references to God really piss me off for the reasons outlined by Ganesh above.

Argue your fucking case Blair, without the caveat that God thinks you've done okay, or that you're a good Christian so all your actions should be seen in that light, or fuck off. ARRGGHHFUCCKSSAKE.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
15:20 / 06.03.06
If Tony Blair did actually 'commune with God' about the invasion of Iraq (I used to pray myself when I was quite a bit younger, though I don't remember getting much in the way of feedback - just not enough of a Gr8 Man of History, I guess,) then, as a lawyer, shouldn't he be feeling at least slightly concerned about the quality of the advice he was given?

As with Peter Mandelson and David Blunkett, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Mr Tony now consults God about policy matters a bit less often than he used to.
 
 
Not in the Face
06:42 / 07.03.06
Perhaps its simply the first step

'God is an integral part of this government'

and then

'I can't see a future without God's contribution to the running of this country'

and then

'God has my full support over allegations that his/her/its/their advice over Iraq misrepresented the facts'

moving on to
'God has decided to spend more time with his/her/its/their family'

and finally

'Although the code of ministers does require a 3 month break period after leaving office before taking up directorships, God did nothing wrong in accepting a position on the College of Cardinals and the Genral Synod prior to the government's announcement that all schools will now be made into faith schools. The resultant £600,000 profit I am assured by God was an unintended consequence'
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
15:49 / 08.03.06
At work, so not really in a postition to add a reply of any length, but here's what Terry Jones has to say about it...
 
  
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