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Camp 101

 
 
sleazenation
13:34 / 01.03.06
This kind of springs out of the Hammer Horror thread and my own forgetting of pretty much any queer theory I've ever learned...

In that thread Båmbling referred to camp as
camp being what I think of as the opposite [of sincerity] and Smug being another association with camp that I have.
and also said
is it me or is 'camp' the ugly second cousin of the altogether not too beautiful 'irony'?

So, what do other people make of this?

And can anyone here come up with a better explanation than my faltering 'its about subversion'?
 
 
Sax
13:48 / 01.03.06
Good question. Camp's one of those things that almost defies definition, at least to one of my limited intellect. It's kind of like... knowing vulgarity. With a smirk. Altogether a good thing, though.
 
 
alas
14:05 / 01.03.06
Well, Susan Sontag's "Notes on Camp" would probably be a good place to start, where she begins by saying:

the essence of Camp is its love of the unnatural: of artifice and exaggeration. And Camp is esoteric -- something of a private code, a badge of identity even, among small urban cliques. Apart from a lazy two-page sketch in Christopher Isherwood's novel The World in the Evening (1954), it has hardly broken into print. To talk about Camp is therefore to betray it. If the betrayal can be defended, it will be for the edification it provides, or the dignity of the conflict it resolves. For myself, I plead the goal of self-edification, and the goad of a sharp conflict in my own sensibility. I am strongly drawn to Camp, and almost as strongly offended by it. That is why I want to talk about it, and why I can. For no one who wholeheartedly shares in a given sensibility can analyze it; he can only, whatever his intention, exhibit it. To name a sensibility, to draw its contours and to recount its history, requires a deep sympathy modified by revulsion.
 
 
Aertho
14:27 / 01.03.06
I'd been toying with the idea of asking "what is heterosexual Camp?" on Barbelith for a while, but shied away from forming a post. Mostly due to the fact that, though an innocent question, might be offensive —because majority, or straight, priviledge might negate a Camp component, or that my lack of data on the ideas and history of "Camp" might open up an uncontrollable discourse on objectified culture or something. Can I still ask here, as merely a creative exercise?

If homosexual Camp can be distilled, what is its corresponding heterosexual Camp? How might the criteria of defining Camp be further explored? Is there such a thing as black Camp? Latin American Camp? Male Camp? New Hampshire Camp?
 
 
*
14:41 / 01.03.06
I like to think of Camp as a sort of drag in which gay people don the mannerisms and atttributes of the stereotypes which afflict them, in order to play with and subvert those stereotypes. I think I see a problem, though, in that Camp is not as relevant to young Gay men— I think this is because the issues facing Gay youth have changed and Camp hasn't kept up. Camp has also been subverted in turn by its use by mainstream media, for example, as an earnest indicator that a character is Gay. It's also being used, I've noticed, by straight men— usually to show how cool they are with teh gaeys. Maybe this contributes to many young Gay men not feeling that Camp is relevant or needed. One of my housemates, though, suggests that a new kind of Camp is a solution.

I'm sure by this definition it's easy enough to envision a Camp of Blackness as opposed to Queerness, but I would not be the one to talk to about what it might look like. Further, I'm not sure what would be gained by calling it Camp instead of something else... other than possible misunderstanding.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
14:51 / 01.03.06
In partial answer to your question, Chad, it's worth pointing out that in Sontag's essay, (full text here, it's not long) which really is the foundational (attemmpt at) description of Camp, Camp and homosexuality are not regarded as explicitly interlinked. Indeed, of the 53 'notes', only 3 referecne homosexuality directly.

This may well be partly because Sontag was uncomfortable with a proximity of homosexuality and camp (in the quote below, I sense a queasiness as she insists that Camp is 'much more' than 'homosexual taste'), but it is worth mentioning that Camp's first and loudest champion explicitly refused to conflat camp with homosexuality:

53. Nevertheless, even though homosexuals have been its vanguard, Camp taste is much more than homosexual taste. Obviously, its metaphor of life as theater is peculiarly suited as a justification and projection of a certain aspect of the situation of homosexuals. (The Camp insistence on not being "serious," on playing, also connects with the homosexual's desire to remain youthful.) Yet one feels that if homosexuals hadn't more or less invented Camp, someone else would. For the aristocratic posture with relation to culture cannot die, though it may persist only in increasingly arbitrary and ingenious ways. Camp is (to repeat) the relation to style in a time in which the adoption of style -- as such -- has become altogether questionable. (In the modem era, each new style, unless frankly anachronistic, has come on the scene as an anti-style.)

So, camp doesn't neccessarily lead neatly into queer theoryland. What is interesting, is how from that point in 1964, we arrive at today, where camp and queer, camp and gay are often used interchangeably.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
14:55 / 01.03.06
There's a nice summary with some definitions we could kick about here

I've always liked the 'failed seriousness' aspect of Sontag's 'definition'. Which I think might be very applicable to certain points in historical/cultural contexts, and not to others. I'm being vague, and will try and come back, but might this, id entity, be connected to your experience of younger gay men finding camp isn't that applicable/relevant?
 
 
Ex
15:31 / 01.03.06
In terms of camp appreciation, I like the idea that it's about inverting depth models - so all the Big Serious things that are Valued get swapped with their opposites. Happens a lot in Wilde's maxims - "If one tells the truth, one is sure, sooner or later, to be found out." "Only the shallow know themselves." (both from Phrases and Philosophies for the use of the Young.).
It fits in nicely with my penchant for deconstruction and the ideas that all the Big Eternal Verities are actually temporary, local and subject to change.

In terms of camp behaviour, I've been wondering if women can be camp - like Chad, not in order to wind people up or negate gay male history. I think when I try to be camp people miss it, because it's tied in with inappropriate effeminacy, or a laconic refusal of masculinity, and it's hard to perform either of those things when you've got breasts and ladybits.
 
 
alas
15:36 / 01.03.06
Interesting question, Ex: Wouldn't the character Annie Hall from the eponymous film (which I just re-watched dubbed in French with French subtitles, which to me was a very campy experience) be a kind of straight-female 1970s version of camp?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
17:12 / 01.03.06
Or, in terms of style and behaviour, I suppose there's always the Ab Fab/Sex And The City/shop till you drop mode of female camp, though I can see why that might be a bit problematic. Interestingly, male camp seems to be able to take the form of a kind of dressed-down anti-dandyism (Jarvis Cocker etc) - I wonder if the same's true as yet of the female version.
 
 
*
17:19 / 01.03.06
In terms of camp behaviour, I've been wondering if women can be camp - like Chad, not in order to wind people up or negate gay male history. I think when I try to be camp people miss it, because it's tied in with inappropriate effeminacy, or a laconic refusal of masculinity, and it's hard to perform either of those things when you've got breasts and ladybits.

Mrr. This resonates with me, as a gay trans man. When I wasn't being read as male, it's gotten me Looks.
 
 
grant
17:27 / 01.03.06
White hetero camp seems to be the basis of Martin Mull's and Fred Willard's comedy. Actually, I think that was a big thing in the whole SCTV sensibility, but I'm not as familiar with that as I could be.

It might not have been camp itself, but it had a campy approach to, what, 1950s establishment, straight-arrow, Leave it to Beaver constructions & conventions.

Who was the director who did All That Heaven Will Allow? Hell, I'm on imDb... no "will," it's All That Heaven Allows by Douglas Sirk. I'm not sure if that counts as hetero the way the SCTV comedy does -- I think they were definitely influenced by and carrying on his tradition, though.
 
 
grant
17:39 / 01.03.06
Ah, scholar.google.com "Sirk" and "camp" yields this article excerpt, which is useless without a subscription except it leads to this book, Melodrama and Meaning: History, Culture, and the Films of Douglas Sirk by Barbara Klinger, wherein she defines something called "mass camp":
 
 
Aertho
17:40 / 01.03.06
Gene Parmesan is straight camp?
 
 
alas
16:22 / 02.03.06
Does mass camp kind of mark the point at which camp ceases to be at all subversive and has simply become assimilated to the Borg?
 
 
alas
21:33 / 28.05.06
I'm reading Judith Halberstam's book In a Queer Time and Place: Transgender Bodies, Subcultural Lives. In a chapter called, "Oh Behave! Austin Powers and the Drag Kings," she builds on Esther Newton's Mother Camp(1979)--which asserts drag queen performances as a critical root of camp, in which the distance between femaleness and femininity is typically highlighted and ironized and gender is denaturalized--and argues for a drag king root to what she calls "king comedy," or "kinging," i.e., performances where "male fragility or male stupidity has been tapped as a primary source of humor" (129). (Laurel and Hardy, Lewis and Martin, the Marx Brothers, Woody Allen classicly play in this realm).

Halberstam argues: "Whereas camp reads dominant culture at a slant and mimics dominant forms of femininity to produce and ratify alternative drag feminities that revel in irony, sarcasm, inversion, and insult, kinging reads dominant male masculinity and explodes its effects through exaggeration, parody, and the methods of drag king performance" (131). Both camp and kinging work not through a direct cause/effect but through "indirect and mediated influence" (150).

She suggests that King comedy in particular tends to find humor rather than tragedy in small penises and male vulnerability/powerlessness; it becomes a place where castration anxiety is comic rather than tragic. What's interesting to her about the first Austin Powers movie and The Full Monty (both hit the US, anyway, in 1997, she notes-she discusses American reception/readings of them, too), is that, unlike in many sort of "overgrown boy" comedies (Adam Sandler, Jim Carey, usually tamed into "adulthood" by a het. female romance), "the comic heroes are struggling neither to resist adulthood nor to achieve it; on the contrary, in both films, our heroes have become men and have discovered that manhood does not allay the fear of castration--it confirms it" (136).

I'm not sure if other people are interested in this argument, but I found it an interesting revision of the standard notion of camp. Although they may not be totally subversive in any way, she concludes: "we can at least take comfort in the fact that AP, the Full Monty, and other king comedies have borrowed liberally from butch, nonmale, or penisless models of masculinity. They have also resigned themselves to a world in which the phallus is always fake, the penis is always too small, and the injunction to the masculine subject is not to 'be' but to 'behave.' The work that falls to us, then, is to constantly recall the debts that the successful king comedies would rather forget--in other words, to remember that behind every good king comedy is a great drag king" (151).

BUT, I want to say: wait! Isn't that always still, then the way? The drag king cannot herself parody masculinity (too threatening, I suppose?), but requires a male in male drag, but a drag queen can parody feminity and it's called "camp"--kitschy and funny and...

I hope this isn't too headshoppy for a Sunday.
 
 
Jackie Susann
23:14 / 28.05.06
The drag king cannot herself parody masculinity (too threatening, I suppose?), but requires a male in male drag, but a drag queen can parody feminity and it's called "camp"--kitschy and funny and...

I don't think that's what Halberstam's arguing. She's written at length on drag kings elsewhere - a chapter or two in Female Masculinities, and she co-authored The Drag King Book. I don't see anything in her work that suggests drag kings are incapable of parodying masculinity. If you mean 'in mainstream het culture' then I see your point, but I think this is also true of drag queens in a different sense.

'Penisless', from the above quote, is my new favourite word. I want to start a band called that.

GGM, you know that Sontag's distanciation of camp from homosexuality has long been considered homophobic and inaccurate? (I have no references handy, though). I don't think any of the questions about straight, female, etc., camp can get very far without acknowledging camp as a foundationally gay male style.
 
 
alas
12:12 / 29.05.06
Yeah, I meant in mainstream culture--sorry that wasn't clear. And after I wrote it I also thought: well it's not actual drag queens either... The mainstream audience has to be convinced of the "straightness"/"real" maleness of the comic in both cases... it has to feel like an act.
 
  
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