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Examples of digital manipulation in celebrity pictures

 
  

Page: 12(3)

 
 
Smoothly
01:48 / 26.02.06
I honestly wasn't being sarcastic. I genuinely didn't think that people thought that the pictures in magazines were what ordinary people looked like.

'Sarcasm always wins!' is lovely though.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
01:55 / 26.02.06
Yeah of course because you've never had sex, you've never seen anyone outside of yourself and possibly two or three other people naked and yet you're aware that ordinary people don't "look like that". Logically perhaps. Realistically... I suspect life is experiential.
 
 
Olulabelle
01:56 / 26.02.06
But no-one ever said the pictures in magazines were what ordinary people looked like. Aspirational images aren't usually of ordinary people. They're there to make you buy or buy into things - the magazine in the first instance, the film or TV show or product in the second.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
01:59 / 26.02.06
That was like... about 16 year olds by the way.
 
 
Smoothly
02:16 / 26.02.06
Yeah of course because you've never had sex, you've never seen anyone outside of yourself and possibly two or three other people naked and yet you're aware that ordinary people don't "look like that". Logically perhaps. Realistically... I suspect life is experiential.

I don't think you to see someone naked to know that they probably don't look like a Vogue swim-wear model under their clothes.

Lula, I thought Nina was talking about perceptions of what's normal:

a world where it's not really cool for a paranoid 16 year old to wear a swimsuit a few folds, which you assume thin people don't have because they never do in any pictures, can make a lot of difference.

But I dunno. I thought the problem was young women not feeling acceptable in a bikini rather than not feeling like a supermodel in a bikini.

Too oiled to marshal my thoughts on the aspiration thing, but I'll mull it over and come back to it.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:27 / 26.02.06
Smootly, I have sat and listend to a grown man--not a naive teenaged boy, a 40+ adult--rant at considerable length about how women could and should 'make more' of themselves 'because if Cher can look like that' (pointing to snapshot in workmate's gossip mag) 'when she's her age, the rest of you have got no excuse!'

I kind of feel that this is a problem.
 
 
Cherielabombe
10:40 / 26.02.06
Very interesting thread.

I doubt many women (teenage or otherwise) consciously look at themselves in a swimsuit in the mirror and think: "I bet Paris would look better in this than I do," but those images are certainly swirling around in one's subconscious. I mean what is the point of advertising? To sell you something and to make you look at an image and think, "I want that." Of course on a conscious level most people know that to look like the model on the bus is an unattainable ideal, but we are still bombarded by those images and they do have an impact. I think if you repeat (show) something often enough it becomes "true." Look at how many people believe that Iraq was involved in 911, just as a(n admittedly tentative) comparison.

I am thinking back to a comment I heard from a young Brazilian guy in a class a few weeks ago. The class was about images of beauty, and the teacher had brought in pictures of various beautiful people. She brought in a picture of Marilyn Monroe and this student said, "She was fat, but she was beautiful." Imagine that! A woman who was held up as an icon of beauty certainly in the latter half of the 20th century, now still seen as beautiful, but also fat. Do you honestly believe that the images of beauty which we are presented with had no impact on this young man's perception?


Now, surely we can all look around and see lots of non-celebrity human beings who are gorgeous, flaws and all. I personally dislike the identikit look of many Hollywood starlets: slimmed down, blonded and collagened up. But that doesn't change the fact that these images are presented as a beauty ideal.

Smoothly, I may be wrong, but from your posts in this thread, I get the impression that you feel very comfortable and self-confident about how you look, and that is great. However it seems to me to some extent, you're assuming that other people should/will most likely react to thse images while mainting the same self-image that you have, and I suggest you make allowances for the fact that not everyone will be able to maintain the strong and relatively positive attitude that you have in the face of such bombardment.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:03 / 26.02.06
Briefly, Smoothly:

I mean, would unphotoshopped images of Paris, Nicole etc not have had the same impact?

Hard to tell, I think: where would one get these unphotoshopped images? Heat! magazine, yes, but how easy is it to get Heat! magazine in Fiji? The US equivalents? It's worth noting that we products of sophisticated media cultures may never actually have seen an untreated image of Paris Hilton.
 
 
Lurid Archive
11:09 / 26.02.06
Rather than objecting to artificiality (which I certainly don't) I think Flyboy has it right here. The notion that these images or, more precisely, the aesthetic that motivates the touching up of these images, is to do with "perfection" is rather suspect. Plastic skin with no creases or veins isn't perfect, it is odd. Nothing wrong with odd, of course, but I think again when I consider the effort that has gone in to hiding this alteration from a casual glance, and the way it seems to be always applied.

Whats troubling, I think, is the pervasiveness of this idea of beauty as obvious. A specific beauty that, by implication, doesn't allow much diversity.
 
 
Smoothly
14:24 / 26.02.06
I think what's confusing me in this thread is that all the ills caused by representations of beauty are being located in or conflated with the touching-up of editorial photography. But it seems to me that if the use of Photoshop was banned in magazines (but not make-up, lighting, skilled photographers, Select models etc), the hegemony of a particular conception of physical beauty and impact on people's self-esteem would be the same. So Nina's claim that it's the vanishing of the creases in the skin of a supermodel reclining on a beach (rather than the fact that she's a 6 foot, 110lb supermodel) that causes ordinary 16-year-old girls anxiety about their bodies seems strange to me. That's what I meant when I asked her if it was *that* that bothered her. But genuinely, I've never been a 16-year-old girl, so I can't say for sure. Just surprises me.

Am I making sense?

Smoothly, I may be wrong, but from your posts in this thread, I get the impression that you feel very comfortable and self-confident about how you look, and that is great

Not so. I'm not keen on what I look like at all. And except for a few months in the early 90s when it was fashionable to look like a smack addict, I'm further from the media's portrayal of what a man should look like than most men are. So I don't really accept that I can't appreciate what the standardised images of beauty can do to one's self esteem. However, I don't think it makes any difference to me whether these images are airbrushed. The Devil is very much not in the detail. For me at least.


Lurid, I agree with you. And I agree with Cherie about the changing perceptions of what counts as fat, beautiful etc. Maybe we should have the discussion mentioned on page 1. I think Lula was right in that there's lots of stuff here that would in interesting to open up.

I'd quite like to look at this idea of aspiration the the thing MC mentioned and Lula touched on about being more interested in, impressed by (and intimidated by) personality and accomplishments. Personality and accomplishments are also (mis)represented and idealised by the media. It would be interesting to compare the effect the media's promotion of (for example) sense of humour and intelligence as attractive qualities has on people who aren't funny or intelligent. But, like I say, maybe a different thread.
 
 
Olulabelle
16:29 / 26.02.06
I do think that would be an interesting topic, you should start it. I am sitting here thinking about it and I can't think how one would go about comparing such things. Presumably there won't be much (if any) statistical evidence which relates to people who would define themselves as unfunny or unintelligent...
 
 
Smoothly
17:09 / 26.02.06
Hmm, I'm not sure how to launch it either.
We've managed here without statistics relating to how attractive people feel, and I wonder if an anecdotal approach could work if we broaden it out into other personal qualities, how those are represented and how that impacts things like self-esteem.
It's something I've thought about before - how we judge our judgments of different kinds of qualities (why people tend to be ashamed to say that they are attracted to money or looks, but not intelligence of sense of humour; why people tend to be more self-critical about their bodies than they are their personalities). But I don't know how to pitch it.
 
 
illmatic
18:16 / 26.02.06
Interesting discussion. I think I'll be using that website in some of my media studies lessons!
 
 
illmatic
18:59 / 26.02.06
Not so. I'm not keen on what I look like at all.. So I don't really accept that I can't appreciate what the standardised images of beauty can do to one's self esteem

I dunno, Smoothly, I've met you, and I'd say you're a good looking guy. I still think there's something here that you're not getting, and that I don't get either. As men - tall, skinny blokes, not too ugly (at least with our clothes on)- I don't think we experience the same kind of constant pressure that women do.

Personality and accomplishments are also (mis)represented and idealised by the media.

I don't really think these kind of attributes are comparable, not given the visual omnipresence of these sort of images.
 
 
alas
20:14 / 26.02.06
Two things upthread I'd like to respond to:

... the point is that for the artist it's about the image, and presenting the best, most attractive image possible with the technology at hand. As an artist, I have trouble with the idea of restricting a photo editor's tools or censoring his art because of the message it might send... but that's a tangential point really.

Hmmmm....I guess I'm kind of skeptical of this comment, and I don't regard it as tangential, because it seems to imply that these images are the independent creations of free-floating, culturally-uninfluenced "artistes" out there, making art of celebrities purely for the joy of it.

For me a great deal is dependent on context, I suppose, and most of this "art" is produced primarily for profit, and that fact matters. So, I disagree with Smoothly that the thread has implied that all the ills caused by representations of beauty are being located in or conflated with the touching-up of editorial photography. I think that's an assumption you're bringing to this discussion. I don't see people claiming that "all" the ills of aesthetic norms result from digital manipulation.

However, let me try to be more specific about where I specifically stand re; digital manipulation (DM) of images. Photoshop is a tool that can used for a variety of purposes, artistic and commercial and, it must be admitted, fraudulent purposes. (I assume we all accept that, right?)

My point, then, is that when you introduce DM into a commercial setting, there's a lot of room for ethical ambiguity. It's quite possible that many uses of the the technology are for art, and I am not here suggesting that the use of DM should be banned or censored, but people definitely need to be aware of the extent to which it is used in commercial "speech," and repeatedly reminded of it through physical examples like the website cited above. (And by reading Susan Bordo, I think, 'cause she's really brilliant on this topic.)

(In that context, I would like to point out, that IIRC, the only people here who have suggested that this discussion is about "banning" digital manipulation is, it seems to me, the people who are defending it against virtually any critique. Thus, while this is perhaps not fair, Smoothly's and Ibis's stance strikes me a bit the same as the "political correctness gone MAAAD" position, where serious questions about a specifical cultural practice are labeled censorship as a form of evasion.)

Let me give an exampe of a clear ethical gray area specifically involving digital manipulation of a celebrity image, this famous picture of O.J. Simpson:



In this picture, taken shortly after OJ's arrest, his face was famously darkened and made to look more "sinister" which Time defended for "artistic" reasons.

Here's the Wikipedia account: Notably, Time published an edition featuring an altered mugshot, darkening his skin and reducing the size of the prisoner ID number. This appeared on newsstands right next to an unaltered picture by Newsweek. Outcry from minority rights groups followed. Time illustrator Matt Mahurin was the one to alter the image, saying later that he "wanted to make it more artful [sic], more compelling."

If I recall correctly, much was made in the media discussions of the fact that even US news magazines regard the cover of the magazine not as part of the "news" but as, in essence, an ad to sell the magazine. But readers, by and large, were not making that distinction. So, note, this is not a "will someone please think of the children!!!" moment: this is about adults as well, feeling that DM was used unethically to play into deeply sedimented ideas about race and gender (specifically, the race and gender of a black male) AND that the unethical use of the technology had asymmetrical effects on relatively disempowered groups: i.e., that this DM was playing into racist beliefs and ideas in ways that may not be immediately "measurable" in their effects, but which were real.

To me, this instance speaks to the ulitmately politically-conservative nature of media that is directly dependent on consumer-based capitalism. It's true that the examples on the site that began this thread were largely, so far as I can tell, celebrity shots that serve a pretty different purpose than the TIME magazine cover. I do not equate the two things, by any means, and I'm not calling for censorship.

I am saying that I believe this kind of manipulation in a capitalist system is a form of propoganda. It is virtually always going to be conservative in its impulse (obviously there will be exceptions, ones that are more clearly "artistic" in their purpose, I suspect). Bottom line: it is hard for people of ANY age, even well-educated adults, even me, to be fully aware of how powerful and pervasive this propoganda is, because it is often invisible, and how it may contribute to reinforcing hurtful stereotypes.
 
 
Olulabelle
20:48 / 26.02.06
To echo many posters recently, I heart Alas.

I highly recommend reading the Susan Bordo article, which Alas kindly PM'd to me. It's not only interesting and hugely relevant to this discussion, it's also written in a very readable style. (There's probably a better term for that, but I don't know it.)

I think the 'Time' magazine cover is an interesting addition to the discussion, it is not simply an image of beauty that has been altered for reasons of alleged aesthetics, although it does potentially follow the idea that as far as the magazines are concerned, the images are manipulated for sales reasons. At this point with regard to the OJ picture I'm not entirely sure I buy into that and I'm trying to work out why.
 
 
Smoothly
21:48 / 26.02.06
And I'll echo Lula's echo, both in boundless admiration for alas, and also in recommending the full Bordo article. Happy to pass on the full text to anyone interested.

Going to have to think about this now. My initial thoughts would be insultingly sketchy. I do hope, though, that I haven't come across as a cock in this thread. My use of the word 'ban' earlier wasn't meant to evoke censorship or plitical crectness, just as a short-hand for 'take out of the equation'.
Nevertheless, it's looking possible I've been blind to some particular problems of DM compared with other technologies/manipulations. The fact that DM takes place on the image rather than the object has consequences I hadn't fully considered (you can't apply make-up to someone without their knowledge/consent, for one thing). I still want to come back to the relative effects of presentation vs. representation, but, as I promised, will have to think this through before returning.
 
 
ibis the being
22:20 / 26.02.06
It's worth noting that we products of sophisticated media cultures may never actually have seen an untreated image of Paris Hilton.

Perhaps not many people here actually buy and read celebrity gossip mags. I do! And they always feature a page of celebrities being "normal," ie walking around with no makeup on and pajama pants, buying mangos, or what have you. If you're actively consuming images of celebrities, you are probably aware that many of them look ordinary, some of them even terrible, without hair, makeup, wardrobe, and photo retouching.

it seems to imply that these images are the independent creations of free-floating, culturally-uninfluenced "artistes" out there, making art of celebrities purely for the joy of it. For me a great deal is dependent on context, I suppose, and most of this "art" is produced primarily for profit, and that fact matters.

I don't mean to imply that. I certainly am not under the illusion that commercial/editorial photo editors are creating high art for art's sake. But the editor of GQ, or the ad exec, though s/he may dictate the look or story they're going for (oversimplifying the process of course) does not do the actual photo retouching. That's done by a person or few people who are working specifically at the level of the image - and they are concerned primarily with whether the image looks great - because that's their specific job - not whether the product sells (the concern of others in the corporation).

Thus, while this is perhaps not fair, Smoothly's and Ibis's stance strikes me a bit the same as the "political correctness gone MAAAD" position, where serious questions about a specifical cultural practice are labeled censorship as a form of evasion.

Ack! I would never trot out the old "PC" nonsense, though I admit it did run through my head that I was toeing that line even as I typed out the word "censor." I don't think magazines and similar media outlets should be able to print whatever, whenever - I do believe that at least social pressure should lean on them to be responsible, particularly in regard to news items. I think, though, the ethical weight of photo manipulation is all about context. Aesthetic manipulation is not as problematic as what I'd call editorial manipulation, as you presented in the Time OJ example.

Does it matter anyway or do you think that how the female form is projected within society (and specifically when it is projected as an unrealistic image) is not relevant to how that society functions as long as companies are able to freely sell their products?

I do absolutely care about how women are portrayed in the media and within society. I just don't care whether they're depicted as fat, thin, pretty, average, stunning, whatever. Focusing on the physical is always going to be a sucker's game, as far as I'm concerned. It bothers me more when women are portrayed as sexual playthings, or dependent on men, or overemotional, etc.
 
 
haus of fraser
22:24 / 26.02.06
Gah, I started a thread on this same website a few weeks ago, but no-one wanted to talk about it!

I was the guy waving his arms around, but none of you seemed to notice, you all just looked down and kept walking...

Anyway I'm mostly shocked that a company is advertising itself using real photos- do we think Nicole Ritchie/ Daryl Hannah etc. have given permission to be used on the website?

My experience with post production houses working on similar clean up footage for Films and pop videos is all very cloak and dagger- we know it happens but its all under a confidentiality agreement- the companys doing this work can't use the work on showreels to promote themselves- like somekind of Coldwar thriller this work doesn't exist- except by word of mouth.

If this site is being touted around the web as much as i suspect it is- do we think that there will be objections and requests to take stuff down?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
22:39 / 26.02.06
So Nina's claim that it's the vanishing of the creases in the skin of a supermodel reclining on a beach (rather than the fact that she's a 6 foot, 110lb supermodel) that causes ordinary 16-year-old girls anxiety about their bodies seems strange to me.

In a way Bordo's article sums it up very well for me, particularly when she talks about plastic surgery. The problem I feel is the point at which this culture of image introduces such a level of unreality, such a huge amount of pressure, that no human body can adequately respond to it. We are not offered pictures of people, of other women, in magazines. We are shown a perfection that even those in the photographs have not achieved. The simple pressure of weight is not the issue for me, it is the erradication of the imperfections that these thin women have that is disturbing because that is what implies the possibility that thin means perfect, that we should strive for perfection. It is too reminiscent of 19th and early 20th century conduct literature, the notion that young women should always conduct themselves properly almost seems to have transferred directly on to the manipulation of these images but with a focus on appearance that is more overt and just as obscence, riddled with expectations driven not by the average female but an outside force.

We are placed in a position of defence by photographs like this. One that we cannot escape because it is ingrained, not in magazines but in our society. The exposure of propaganda does not equate to the destruction of that propoganda because the images continue to bombard us and they are constantly supported by individuals and institutions.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:50 / 26.02.06
Perhaps not many people here actually buy and read celebrity gossip mags. I do! And they always feature a page of celebrities being "normal," ie walking around with no makeup on and pajama pants, buying mangos, or what have you.

Sorry, that was a bit unclear. I meant that every photo, even the ones of them buying groceries, has been selected by an editor to get across something specific; in a sense, those pictures are no more "real" than the modified images, as they are badly-lit, show unflattering positions and so on - all the things one expects not to be present in a depiction of a celebrity. So, there's an editorial point there as well.

It's interesting - I swear I saw on the covers of adjoining celeb magazines not only the same celeb but the same picture used for "We love our curvy tummies" and "FAT STARS!".
 
 
Tryphena Absent
22:50 / 26.02.06
If you're actively consuming images of celebrities, you are probably aware that many of them look ordinary, some of them even terrible, without hair, makeup, wardrobe, and photo retouching.

And those images are touted with overwhelming negativity. Fluctuating weight, lines on their faces, as much a spectacle as they would be on the red carpet at Oscar night, presented as unusual and all underlined with the suggestion that if we try hard enough we can present the facade of beauty and perfection that they can gain through retouching, professional make up and hair, clothes that are priced extortionately. All this pressure aimed at women when the men look almost identical without the troupe of artists at their disposal to present them as perfect specimens. Alec Baldwin in his sweat pants and cap looks like Alec Baldwin in a tuxedo.

Focusing on the physical is always going to be a sucker's game, as far as I'm concerned... if you're female.
 
 
Olulabelle
23:02 / 26.02.06
Copey, I'm so sorry I missed your thread.

I definitely do think this site won't be up in its current form for long.

Ibis, I was asking you whether you thought how the female form was projected, and specifically when it is projected as an unreal image isn't relevant to how that society functions, not whether you care more about women being portrayed in other ways, such as sexual playthings.

Of course those things are very significant topics for discussion and I do actually think that images of women which have been manipulated to be much thinner than they actually are does in some way play a part in the objectification of women. If that's the case then surely we should care a great deal about the physical representation of women, especially when images of women are being changed digitally. I don't see how saying it's a mug's game to care is ever going to progress anything. Isn't it just saying, "I don't think I can change it so I might as well not care about it?"
 
 
ibis the being
23:23 / 26.02.06
Ibis, I was asking you whether you thought how the female form was projected, and specifically when it is projected as an unreal image isn't relevant to how that society functions, not whether you care more about women being portrayed in other ways, such as sexual playthings.

I know... I know what you were asking me, and that's my answer.

...images of women which have been manipulated to be much thinner than they actually are does in some way play a part in the objectification of women. If that's the case then surely we should care a great deal about the physical representation of women...

I'm just not seeing how thinness equates with objectification. The two may coincide in a society that prizes thinness as a beauty aesthetic, but I see sexual objectification as separate from physical attractiveness.

I don't see how saying it's a mug's game to care is ever going to progress anything. Isn't it just saying, "I don't think I can change it so I might as well not care about it?"

Not at all. I just don't think looks are that important, and I think critiquing the way women (or people more generally) are portrayed physically in the media is just buying into the notion that looks ARE important - just watching the shadows on the wall. It only reinforces what I feel is a bad message by lending credibility to it.

Take the Dove ads again. How do you feel about their Campaign for Real Beauty? When I initially saw it, I thought, well, that's kind of nice.... But when I thought more about it I realized it's still just reinforcing the message that your looks do say something about you, in a much milder and perhaps even more insidious way. Should I feel better about myself because there are some new Dove models who look more like me than Uma Thurman does? - I'm still just measuring myself against a media image. I know I'm not phrasing this well, but I hope you'll understand me despite my verbal clumsiness.
 
 
Olulabelle
00:12 / 27.02.06
Ibis, it's true you are still measuring yourself against a media image, but it's a more realistic image than the ones on the fluideffect site. Obviously, Dove are using 'real women' because the current trend is towards more healthy, 'realistic' bodies, and because clearly Dove think that the women who buy their products want that. But given that selling things is part and parcel of modern society I'd be inclined to think it's less problematic way of doing it. For me it is, anyway.

Incidentally, with regard to whether the site might get taken down or not, the disclaimer on the front page reads:

"This website, it's contents and any files or images displayed within it are intended solely for the use of Fluideffect.

All images are strictly copyright protected by Fluideffect and reproduction in any form is prohibited. You must agree to these terms in order to view portfolios."


I don't know what the first paragraph means for us since we are not Fluideffect and so in one sense should perhaps have not have looked.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
04:54 / 27.02.06
I don't know quite how useful it is for me to chip in with this, but as a younger member of the board it seems to me- though oviously I've not tested it scientifically- that the people around me in my peer group really are dangerously obsessed with these kind of "perfect" images- to the point where there is a lot of irrational personal insecurity, and more worryingly, a lot of bullying directed at people who aren't seen as good-looking- and we're talking about 19-year old "educated" students here- people who're supposed to know about "societal myths" and "media bias".

I only think this might be worth pointing out because people on Barbelith are by and large older than this, more mature (yes, really) and have fundamentally passed through the most impressionable stage in their lives to a point where they're looking at this system of influence from outside. All's I'm saying is that to the best of my "inside" knowledge, which isn't perfect, but still, there are girls and guys who think Paris Hilton, as seen in Loaded, is a normal and acheivable image, and that to fail to acheive that image is a failure. Maybe not all of them, but that image of a woman has been accepted as undeniable truth by a large section of this generation.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
07:09 / 27.02.06
I am thinking back to a comment I heard from a young Brazilian guy in a class a few weeks ago. The class was about images of beauty, and the teacher had brought in pictures of various beautiful people. She brought in a picture of Marilyn Monroe and this student said, "She was fat, but she was beautiful." Imagine that! A woman who was held up as an icon of beauty certainly in the latter half of the 20th century, now still seen as beautiful, but also fat. Do you honestly believe that the images of beauty which we are presented with had no impact on this young man's perception?
If this is off topic feel free to delete, but I was wondering about this the other night. Does anyone know how the idea that thinner=prettier came about? Or when it came about? I was watching a documentary on Patsy Cline and in the clips they kept mentioning her beauty, and I thought that in this day and age they would photoshop a little under her chin and/or make her arms thinner. It wasn't a nice thought, and I wasn't trying to be mean, but compared to female celebrity pop singers today that's just what popped into my head. So I was wondering if anyone has maybe taken a course on marketing or something and could tell me how this came to be, as far as thinnest=prettiest.

On another note many of my friends throughout the years were girls, and while they seemed perfectly normal out and about, it did suprise me that many of them seemed pretty obsessive about their bodies. I was kinda shocked that even some of the rail thin friends of mine would have things like pro-anorexia web pages on their list of favorites. I bring this up because I didn't see anything remotley close to this behavior with my guy friends. I don't know how accurate this is as far as guys vs gals in the body image department is, as it's only based on people I know. I don't know, just some food for thought.
 
 
penitentvandal
08:35 / 27.02.06
The bottom line is that young girls, and all other people, shouldn't look to physical attributes as paths to happiness. They should strive to be smarter, more ambitious, kinder, better educated, and more compassionate... but not only are those qualities virtually impossible to express in an advertising photograph, they're not likely to sell, say, an ipod.

I don't agree with this, specifically the idea that (a) theoretically 'intangible' qualities like intelligence, ambition etc are 'virtually impossible' to express in an advertising photograph, and (b) that even if they could be expressed visually, they aren't likely to sell products.

In actual fact, it is a fairly well-established concept in advertising, as I understand it, that to suggest that your product in some way represents qualities like this will make people want to buy your product: who doesn't want to be thought of as smart, ambitious, and compassionate? I don't see products being marketed as being for dumb, lazy, selfish people...

Not only that, but there are a whole raft of ways in which you can use a photograph to convey these ideas. You can use decor, colour, clothes, even the angle of facial expression of the model chosen. Ambition? Put her in a business suit, show her talking on a mobile phone. Intelligence? Glasses and computers. Compassion? Show her comforting an ethnic kid. All apalling forms of visual shorthand, yes, but all undoubtedly and for all to see in use by the modern advertising industry.

Which is not to say that beauty isn't part of the package as well. It is, but only part. But in actual fact so are these supposedly more ineffable concepts ibis outlines, and it would in fact be kind of bizarre - even in an advert for something like make-up - to see an advertising photograph which relied solely on the concept of beauty alone to sell its product.

It might be interesting, in this regard, to think about what messages about concepts other than beauty are also being sent by these images, and how they perhaps interact with ideas of beauty. How does an image of Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie on a sofa in white trash clothes work to suggest that Paris and Nicole are 'normal' (i.e. like you and me, not in fact fabulously wealthy socialites), and how does this suggest that their (alleged - I actually can't stand Paris Hilton and her gurning face) beauty is in fact a possible norm? What message is conveyed by an image of Daryl Hannah in a martial arts pose, and how is this message altered by the knowledge that Daryl Hannah's appearance in this pose has been altered to make her look more feminine and attractive?

A point of politeness - I'm not having a go at ibis here, merely suggesting that hir point about being unable to represent more intangible concepts in an advertising photo is open to discussion.
 
 
penitentvandal
08:44 / 27.02.06
Also, and perhaps tangentially, it's interesting to note that the advertising for the iPod has tended to avoid using traditional representations of beauty. The figures in the iPod ads are completely blacked-out shadows, identifiable only by their movements. Just because they don't focus on the 'beauty' of the figures depicted it doesn't mean the ads are paragons of honesty, however - they're still trying to manipulate a host of other ideas, concepts of exuberance, the idea of being 'all about the music' etc. It's still aspirational: you want to be like the cool kids in the advert, you want to have all the cool new tunes, you want the freedom to jump around in the street which the iPod will supposedly give you, it's just not about 'I want to look like Celebrity X'.

Of course it's also interesting in this context that the iPod's target audience probably isn't the sort of kids who are voraciously consuming information about the Hiltons. Teenagers these days tend to gravitate more towards the cheaper end of the mp3 spectrum, buying those little players whose memory is measured in kilos, not gigs, and they perhaps are less likely to be lured in by the iPod ads. If anything, the choice of musicians used in the ads - U2, Winton Marsalis (for christ's sake) - would seem to suggest as much.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
09:00 / 27.02.06
Oh, Denfeld Jack. Even some of your friends who are "rail thin" visit pro-anorexia webpages? I envy your naivete. How do you think they got to be rail thin?
 
 
haus of fraser
09:51 / 27.02.06
I don't know what the first paragraph means for us since we are not Fluideffect and so in one sense should perhaps have not have looked.

Then put a password on your protected file- and use a secure website- its not that hard, as i have a feeling that Fluid Effect will find out sooner rather than later- when the lawsuits hit!

As far as the Dove campaign is concerned it was a bit of a double edged sword- i know a little bit about it and while the real women thing was seen as a positive thing i also heard that when it was tested- Dove was seen as a product for fat women! Not something the advertisers had intended- as a result the women for the future campaigns were found through advertising in Yoga joints and health clubs- showing real faces/ with great skin and healthy bodies- definitely more socially responsible than photoshopping everything to death though.

I also find it kind of strange cos some of the photos certainly look better before they were fucked with- i'm thinking John Cussack and the girl with freckles- i'm certainly not offended by the creases and skin folds- although the shocking thing to me is the covering up the popping joints and bones that scream 'Eating disorder' on several of the models.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
10:26 / 27.02.06
I agree on the looking better beforehand front - there's one image in particular, of a dark-haired woman, where they've smoothed out the creases around her mouth and it's taken away all the character from her face...

I do disagree that it is only important for younger women and teenagers though (see also alas's article, in which the author comments on how her un-enhanced face suddenly makes her seem older than her true age, by comparison with the surgified faces of others). I am 28 and look that age - a few spots, a few spot scars, laughter lines, lines on my forehead, but nothing that is in any way unusual or unnatural, and almost certainly nothing that anyone else would notice (unless they were deliberately looking for it). Moreover, I know perfectly well that ad and magazine images are digitally manipulated. But looking at a picture of someone who I know to be the same age as me or older than me, who looks flawless, makes me feel bad about my ever-so-slightly-lined face DESPITE the fact that I know it is absurd, the pictures have been manipulated, and that they look characterless. I think these images do contribute to insecurity, though I wouldn't goso far as to say that they create it.
 
 
Loomis
20:44 / 28.02.06
I was wondering to what extent the "before" pictures are almost as fake as the "after" ones. Most of those "imperfections" are only visible because of the extreme close up photography and the high strength studio lights beaming down on the models. If you took a snap with your camera then you wouldn't see a lot of those things the way you do in those before shots. If you take a normal photo of yourself and then take an extreme close up then wrinkles, etc. suddenly jump out.

So if you want to take a close up but still have someone looking as blemish free as they do under normal conditions then you would need to touch them up. So perhaps the aritifical conditions have magnified those features almost as much as the DM has taken them away. Maybe the everyday "what you would see if you saw them on the street" level of beauty is halfway between.
 
 
Liger Null
15:21 / 01.03.06
Smoothly, I have sat and listend to a grown man--not a naive teenaged boy, a 40+ adult--rant at considerable length about how women could and should 'make more' of themselves 'because if Cher can look like that' (pointing to snapshot in workmate's gossip mag) 'when she's her age, the rest of you have got no excuse!'

Do you happen to have a pic of this guy, Mordant? I'm curious to know if he looks as good as Johnny Depp. If not, what's his excuse?
 
  

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