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Girls.

 
 
Markle Sparkle
18:01 / 15.02.06
Are we not discussing this for a reason? It isn't super *clever* but I'm finding it to be one of the most compelling and entertaining regulars out there.
 
 
Markle Sparkle
18:02 / 15.02.06
Not sure what side of the misogynist/women's lib fence it is going to fall on though. There have been hints suggesting both directions.
 
 
Triplets
18:06 / 15.02.06
Perhaps no-one is buying it?
Well you are, apparently, so what's Girls about? What do you find entertaining about it?
 
 
Markle Sparkle
18:10 / 15.02.06
*re-reads 'posting etiquette'

Ha ha... oh yeah. Well, it is quite nicely drawn and the story has one foot very firmly planted in reality, one dipping its toes in a pool of ethereal/otherwordly excitement. It has been a bit slow moving so far but every issue ends with quite a nice cliffhanger.

Also - there is a sex-starved, self-replicating murderous naked woman, a giant man-shredding sperm and an invisible bird-killing bubble wrapped around a town full of some pretty well-developed and interesting characters.
 
 
Markle Sparkle
18:10 / 15.02.06
 
 
FinderWolf
18:28 / 15.02.06
I know the Luna Bros.' first comic was ULTRA, which is now being made into a TV series. The art is ok, I've been interested in these guys but never really heard enough of a positive review to pick up either series. Can you tell us more about it? Anyone else read these books and have any impressions to share...?
 
 
Triplets
19:42 / 15.02.06
It isn't super *clever*

You might get this impression from the Barb from time to time but it's so far from the truth it would have to pay international rates to call it It's more that we value constructive looks at whatever we're talking about. You can do that with anything - from Peanuts to the Illiad.

Check out, for example, the threads for Superman/Batman, JLA: Classified and the recent Morrison Batman one for proof that Barbelith loves swordfighting apes in space topless.
 
 
Jack Fear
21:53 / 15.02.06
Y’know, I’ve really been debating whether I should pick this up. And I keep having my doubts.

The premise, of course, is in poor taste: that’s inherent. But there could be some good, squicky body-horror to be mined from it. The problem is that the starting point is such an archetypal het-male fantasy—the ultimate zipless fuck—that when the turnaround comes, as it must for horrific effect, it’s a fine line to walk to avoid sliding into outright misogyny.

What we’re playing on, here, is the simultaneous male fear of and attraction to a woman who fucks like a man—fucks who and when she wants, who has sexual urges and does not deny them. In day-to-day society, a woman like that is branded as a whore or worse. In stories of this type, though, she’s presented as an aberration—literally inhuman: an alien, a demon, a goddess, a weird Lovecraftian otherbeing. And the penalty for being a monstrous nymphoslut from beyond the stars is, usually, death.

I mean, the hero gets to fuck her first; that’s a given. But she can’t be allowed to live at the end of the story.

There are a few sex-fear stories that examine the tropes successfully and thoughtfully—Clive Barker’s “The Forbidden” springs to mind—and many that descend into gynophobia at the drop of the Bad Lady’s clothing—e.g., the Species movies.

Now, Girls may indeed fall into the former select group, but I have so far not picked it up because I fear it will fall into the latter. My reasons for this are superficial, but I’ll lay them out here:

—The art, as evidenced above, is unapologetically cheesecake-y. Now, I like looking at pitchers of purty nekkid wimmins as much as the next person—but something about the voluptuary Frank Cho-style rendering puts me off. Of course, it’s necessary to the context—the aberrant otherwhore must look gorgeous and irresistible for the story to be believable.

But having seen other of J. Luna’s art, I can confirm that he lavishes just as much lusciousness on a drawing of, say, Spider-Woman as on the Evil Hottie of Girls. This leads me to believe that, like Cho, Luna just plain likes drawing cutie-pies, and that this project was undertaken not so much as a serious examination of sexual anxieties as an excuse to draw lots of pretty ladies with no clothes on, bolting them onto a standard small-town in peril plot. Which is all well and good, as far as it goes—but such stories rarely end well for the pretty ladies.

—I’ve read the occasional five-page preview at Buzzscope or CBR or wherever, and, while the storytelling is solid and the pacing seems pretty good, the dialogue is sitcom-flat and the relationships and situations seem cliché.

—Finally: the Lunas—and I’m not the first to point this out, but I can’t remember who mentioned it; maybe Augie DeBlieck—write the worst solicitation text in the business:

“As the questions pile on, only one thing remains certain—nothing will ever be the same.”

“In order to find a way out of this nightmare, everyone must stand as one. But when temptation beckons, can the men be trusted?”

Oh, God.

“Are you scared of girls?”

If that's not a tagline tailor-made for the stereotypical fatbeard fanboy, I've never seen one.

“There are some things worse than death.”

Yeah, and I’m readin’ it right now.

So. Am I right? Am I wrong? Do the Lunas hate women? Would I hate myself for reading it? Should I just wait for the J. Luna coffee-table art book of nude studies, and spare myself the tedious narrative of the lethal (and probably phallic) chastisement of a space-jezebel?
 
 
the permuted man
12:47 / 16.02.06
I had no idea Ultra is now a TV series, is it ongoing or a mini-series? Ultra would have translated perfectly into a two hour superhero romantic comedy, but I'm not sure about a TV series.

As for Girls, I don't feel it has realized its potential. Despite the concept, somewhere between slasher and porno, the execution is very hollywood. The situations and jokes are modern and in, but ultimately uninteresting and cliche. Ultra had this -- albeit to a lesser extent -- but in Ultra it added and enhanced, because it was showing a side of the modern superhero that other comics have been too counter-culture to ever do. In Girls, it just feels like normalizing an interesting concept.

I'm fairly ambivalent about Y: The Last Man, but that's the comic that most reminds me of Girls. I don't feel my criticism of Girls wholely applies to Y, I'm just mentioning it for reference.
 
 
Ninjas make great pets
13:14 / 16.02.06
I've been reading girls since it came out. And I'm not sure why but I like it. Perhaps it's the complete haplessness of the main characters with their puppy-just-peed-on-the-carpet appeal (is appeal the right word here?).

Anyway. I would strongly disagree that they hate women. I mean compare the female to the male characters. Whom would you rather be trapped with?! (I'm not including the naked women in that btw).

Everytime I read it I think.. "its obvious where this is going" .. but I pick it up again and again and again. I'm just hoping it ends well. Not happy. Just well.
 
 
Markle Sparkle
14:05 / 16.02.06
Jack Fear - I think it would be worth you picking it up. There is a balance to the story that led me to ask the question about whose lap it is all going to end up in.

You are on point with the observations about hot naked women with cocklust but you're missing some of the more subtle aspects of the story. The confused and frightened men that are continually telling the stronger women of the village to, "Just stay put." while they go out and bumble around - shooting one another, getting themselves killed and generally making the situation worse. The female characters in the story (including the mysterious naked stranger) are the strength and I think that is going to shine through in future issues.

Of course, I could be wrong - maybe they did write this for chubby men with beards?

For those that have read it and enjoyed it, how would you compare the treatment of 'female strength' (hereafter: girl power) to that presented in a comic like Y?

My wife reads (and enjoys) Y but I've never stopped to have the conversation about the gender issues it touches on. I think Vaughan has tried to frame the plight of the women in more of a "1/2 of the world's population has been wiped out and the problems are mostly as a result of adjusting to that" but every now and then I catch a whiff of the damsel in distress. There are a lot of uppity feminists in Y and it seems like Vaughan might have some real resentment towards those attitudes - like he's writing it with a sneer.

Or maybe we're reading too much into all of thise - they are comics after all.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:14 / 16.02.06
There are a lot of uppity feminists in Y

Off-topic, but like who? The Amazons aren't really feminists per se - they're just this insane death cult. Whereas you could make a strong case for characters including 355, Dr Mann, 711 and Beth-2 all being feminists, really.
 
  
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