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Jung, Archetypes, and Our Meanings

 
 
Andrue
20:17 / 14.02.06
For a few years now, I've been delving deeply into the writings of C.G. Jung, who I'm assuming is a well known name around here. I know in contemporary, popular society he's pretty much been denigrated to a quack-alchemist-mystic, but I just can't see how people are so willing to write him off. I'm currently writing a thesis applying his archetypal theories, his idea of the "modern man," and individuation to the Biblical story of Adam and Eve and Cain and Abel, and then applying what I've distilled from that to Steinbeck's East of Eden. The further in I get, and looking back on how I got to this path, the more I have to believe in Jung's ideas.

I picked up Jung on a whim for a research paper for some class -- this was shortly after a deep trip into a group of other students practicing all kind of occult business, all of which I figure would fall under the category of Chaos Magick. I fell hard into this group, and swiftly lost touch with what I today refer to as reality, but the trip back out was wonderful. I maintained some connection to whatever plane of existence I had been working with, while functioning in "real" society, and the mixture made me happier than I've ever been. I still strive to try and reach that liminal, in-between state, but I fear the memories may be a little tainted and idealized.

Well, while in this state, I was severely trusting of my intuition, and allowed myself to follow whatever path it directed me in. This is what lead me to Jung. Seems kind of funny, that a deep faith in my unconscious led me to Jung -- a little bit of synchronicity there, I'd say. As I got further and further in, I realized he was basically describing in psychological terms much of what I had experienced and believed in my mystical/occult terms. Needless to say, my paradigm shifted, and I'm still working within Jung's to this day.

I suppose the reason I'm writing this is to ask if anyone else functions in this manner -- I don't even know if Jung meant his ideas to function in this manner. I tend to analyze my own dreams (I've gotten to the point where I'll wake up, and realize I was analyzing my dream while dreaming it), consult with the archetypes in my mind as regular emmisaries of my unconscious through active imagination (I've gotten to the point with this that I can do it while just walking around), and have the utmost faith in synchronicities as marking my "path," so to speak.

Despite the madly cerebral/mystical way I look at the world, I manage to function as a regular person. Most people that know me have no idea I think like this. Has anyone ever heard of people living their life this way? Is there any advice for books and/or other paths I should look into? It's quite fulfilling, but I still have a basic missing piece -- my conception of the world outside/beside/inside of this one is a messy haze that I feel a drastic need to coagulate.

I've done some astral projection, but haven't been wildly successful, and that helped at the time, but I'd like to hear from others as to what they do, personally, that may help me, and I'd also like others to question what I do, as I feel I've never had to defend it. So, please, if you've got the time, contribute!
 
 
illmatic
08:57 / 15.02.06
Great introductory post, Andrue. I haven't read Jung closely - just a few introductory books, though I'm aware some others here are fans. On a personal level though, I've had parallel experiences with yours with my dreams and I know that Jungian concepts have crept into my approach somewhere.

I'm also aware that some of his ideas have been subjected to a fair amount of critque, but I'll someone more knowlegable recapitualte those, if they so choose.

As to this: Most people that know me have no idea I think like this. Has anyone ever heard of people living their life this way?

Well, I pretty much function like this. I don't discuss my practices with work colleagues and indeed, most of my friends, even those who know of my interests. Not because I'm worried they'll think I'm a loony, partly privacy but also because it's just not their field of interest, much as I wouldn't discuss new Hip Hop and dancehall with my Gran.

I don't really know what you mean by this: still have a basic missing piece -- my conception of the world outside/beside/inside of this one is a messy haze that I feel a drastic need to coagulate. Can you clarify?

If you are looking for something else to try, two things suggest themselves. One being meditation, just to provide a quiet space from mentation. I personally think everyone I know could benefit from this. The other would be something that intergrates some bodywork into your practices. This might take many forms, up to you really, but bodywork practises form a backdrop to all my work on myself.Good thread here that you might find of interest.

A big interest of mine is the work of Wilhelm Reich, and there is an excellent book comapring Reich and Jung: Jung and Reich: The Body as Shadow

Oh, and that search also brought up this thread on Jung and alchemy. If you use the search function or use Google advanced searches on the board, you'll probably bring up a lot more on Jung.

Hope you enjoy it here.
 
 
BlueMeanie
11:18 / 15.02.06
I'm fascinated by Jung, and believe that he was indeed onto something with his ideas.

I think that the most important to me is the way that human being's minds (especially on the deeper levels) are intricately tied in to mythemes and archetypal images - evidence of which is all over theplace, as long as we know what to look for, such as repeating elements in seemingly distinct religions and societies. These things aren't really rational, and operate on a very sub-conscious level, but do indeed have a distinct effect on our lives.

I also really like Jung's dealings with the Tarot and I Ching. I have a way of doing the Tarot that I consider vaguely Jungian, in that I draw some cards from the deck in the usual fashion, and then allow myself to project meanings to them, tapping my subconscious using the images that the cards present me with. In fact, you can do this self-conscious divination (or simply a status check on the subconscious) via projection on anything - it can be quite entertaining. Similar issues come up with dream analysis, which I do in a rather Jungian fashion. I believe I've met my anima in dreams two or three times now.

There's a lot more I'd like to witter on about regarding Jung, but I'm not being very cohesive, so I'll finish here.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:30 / 15.02.06
One idea that is bandied around occultism quite a bit is the notion of Jungian archetypes as a sanitised way of explaining things like Gods, spirits and deities. I'm not sure to what extent the version of this you often find in occult books is a dumbed down version of what Jung actually had to say on the matter. Can anyone point me in the direction of resources I can look at to try and fully understand Jung's theories on archetypes and how they relate to deities. I'm not sure that I agree with the Jungian approach to these things, and a lot of my experiences in these areas seem to contradict what I understand of the Jungian perspective. However, I'm not totally sure that what I understand to be the Jungian perspective is entirely accurate and would like to do a bit of research into this.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
12:04 / 15.02.06
Jung, Freud & Campbell critiqued
 
 
BlueMeanie
12:07 / 15.02.06
For finding out about Jung and what he actually thought, I think the best books to begin with are his autobiography Memories, Dreams, Reflections (actually dictated to a student), Man and his Symbols and The Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious.

None of these are very technical, compared to other papers such as his book on alchemy.
 
 
EvskiG
19:22 / 16.02.06
GL, you're right in assuming that much of what passes for Jungian theory in the occult world is dumbed down.

Jung was a brilliant psychiatrist, and his work is dense and closely reasoned. Believe it or not, he also was a kick-ass (practical and theoretical) occultist.

I'd start by reading Jung's essay "On the Nature of the Psyche." If you want something detailed and thorough, check out "Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious." If you want an overview, I'd read "Man and His Symbols" or "A Guided Tour of the Collected Works."

And if you want to read the book Basilides of Alexandria supposedly dictated to Jung, check out Seven Sermons to the Dead, which has uncanny parallels to the Book of the Law.

Here's a sample from "On the Nature of the Psyche":

I must stress one aspect of the archetypes which will be obvious to anybody who has practical experience of these matters. That is, the archetypes have, when they appear, a distinctly numinous character which can only be described as "spiritual," if "magical" is too strong a word. Consequently this phenomenon is of the utmost significance for the psychology of religion. In its effects it is anything but unambiguous. It can be healing or destructive, but never indifferent, provided of course that it has attained a certain degree of clarity. This aspect deserves the epithet "spiritual" above all else. It not infrequently happens that the archetype appears in the form of a spirit in dreams or fantasy-products, or even comports itself like a ghost. There is a mystical aura about its numinosity, and it has a corresponding effect upon the emotions. It mobilizes philosophical and religion convictions in the very people who deemed themselves miles above any such fits of weakness. Often it drives with unexampled passion and remorseless logic towards its goal and draws the subject under its spell, from which despite the most desperate resistance he is unable, and finally no longer even willing, to break free, because the experience brings with it a depth and fulness of meaning that was unthinkable before. I fully appreciate the resistance that all rooted convictions are bound to put up against psychological discoveries of this kind. With more foreboding than real knowledge, most people feel afraid of the menacing power that lies fettered in each of us, only waiting for the magic word to release it from the spell.

Here's Jung talking about his own work with the spirit (or deity) Philemon:

Philemon and other figures of my fantasies brought home to me the crucial insight that there are things in the psyche which I do not produce, but which produce themselves and have their own life. Philemon represented a force which was not myself. In my fantasies I held conversations with him, and he said things which I had not consciously thought. For I observed clearly that it was he who spoke, not I. . . . Psychologically, Philemon represented superior insight. He was a mysterious figure to me. At times he seemed to me quite real, as if he were a living personality.

And here's a quote from "Seven Sermons to the Dead":

Man is a gateway, through which from the outer world of gods, daemons, and souls ye pass into the inner world; out of the greater into the smaller world. Small and transitory is man. Already is he behind you, and once again ye find yourselves in endless space, in the smaller of innermost infinity. At immeasurable distance standeth one single Star in the zenith. This is the one god of this one man. This is his world, his pleroma, his divinity.
 
 
EvskiG
18:37 / 05.06.07
The second part of Harmateus's article on working with archetypes and deities is now out and available here.
 
  
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