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Slang terminology

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

17:41 / 11.02.06

On Barbelith, and other multinational boards I am always running into new slang. Most recently here is the word:

pap

I don't know what it means, but I can assume based on context, much in the way that when my friends who know French start using it in conversation, I can assume what they are saying based on minor knowlede and context.

What I am wondering, though, is if any of you have friends who use slang from other parts of the world semi-constantly. If you do, does it annoy you?

I have a friend who always refers to his apartment as his flat. He has lived in New Mexico his entire life, and as far as I know his major contact with the UK has been Dr Who. It doesn't bother me enough to mention anything, but it grates on me a little.

Does anyone else ever run into this?

All Acting Regiment

18:22 / 11.02.06

Depends how it's being used, like all slang. I'm not going to fault someone for the way they talk just because I don't understand it- most likely I'd just ask them what it meant.

On the other hand, if someone's purposefully using language in an anti-social way, then there might be trouble. I still don't see use of slang, non-local or local, as being any worse than anything else, language-wise, though.

18:45 / 11.02.06

My bad seems to be spreading like NSU.

And Ganesh has been using the slang expression stemming the rose a lot lately and it's making me very nervous.

11:33 / 12.02.06

I love slang and the way different groups play with language, but I'm not one for actually using slang derived from external sources as I think it comes off as an affectation and often sounds contrived. To see how irritating this can be see Jamie Oliver and the oeuvre of Guy Ritchie.
However I sometimes secretly wish this wasn't true and I could use slang and my irritation is therefore tinged with understanding.

13:13 / 12.02.06

Language is fluid. It crosses boundaries. That's kind of the point, no? I didn't invent any of the words I'm using, and they are not native to this spot. They're English. "OK" is a piece of American slang that is now virtually universal, which is kind of handy when traveling. When does slang stop being slang and just become a word?

Just to be extremely nitpicky, "pap," as used in the original Barbelith post in the policy, isn't really British slang. It's a standard word listed in the American Heritage Dictionary (4th. ed., 2000), as:

'1. Soft or semiliquid food, as for infants. 2. Material lacking real value or substance: TV shows that offer nothing but pap. 3. Slang Money and favors obtained as political patronage: “self-seeking politicians primarily interested in patronage, privilege, and pap” (Fiorello H. La Guardia).'

The third example is American slang--kind of obscure, possibly even nearly obsolete slang--but American, not British, according to both this dictionary and the very reverend OED, which lists an example from 1977.

13:37 / 12.02.06

I don´t know about the UK, but in Germany, some of the most notorious slang spreaders (and creators) are famous soccer players and their trainers. Sadly, I can´t translate their language butchering, but it´s really awful. And then tv comedians think it´s "funny", and compose music around the soccer player´s audio accidents, and sell CDs and tshirts.

"Rhetorical peak performances in the world of soccer."

13:41 / 12.02.06

There are two responses when somebody uses a term you don't know. You can think

(a) What a pretentious fucker, obfuscating his meaning like that

or

(b) The fact that i don't understand this is, perhaps, a sign that I should read more widely and drink deeply of life in an effort to cure my own appalling ignorance and provincialism.

You've opted for choice A. How's that workin' out for you?

13:42 / 12.02.06

Well with the laboured way the german language handles neologisms the whole language is somewhat crying out for shorter slang words...

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

13:45 / 12.02.06

Oh God, thinking of slang (and I realise this is probably going to appeal most to Alex's Gran) did anyone read Pete Doherty's "prison diaries" in the Guardian the other day? Shitting crikey, if I didn't want to punch the man before, I certainly do now.

In describing his just-under-a-fortnight-in-hell, not only did he say he was "birded up" in the FIRST FUCKING PARAGRAPH, but he proceeded to write as if he thought he was some kind of cross between Mad Frankie Fraser and Oscar Wilde, when clearly he was just a dick. In terms of slang usage, it was like watching your dad dancing.

That said, I can't wait for part two, if only because he hasn't said "banged up in chokey" yet, and it's about the only one left on my Pete Doherty Shit Prison Slang Bingo card.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

13:47 / 12.02.06

Well with the laboured way the german language handles neologisms the whole language is somewhat crying out for shorter slang words... Ah, but that's what makes German such a beautiful language.

Also makes it easier to guess the answers you don't know if you've taken it as a subject at school and haven't bothered to revise for your exam.

All Acting Regiment

13:51 / 12.02.06

Which sadly didn't work for me, perhaps because I'd knocked up a short but aching piss take on powerpoint about our teacher who we re-named "Wickey the Rat" and in which, wearing large round ears, he presented a bouqet of flowers to the head of year, which when she sniffed them had a big dildo pop out of them and then his face went red.

14:10 / 12.02.06

I confess I've picked up some things from Barbelith I can't even pronounce.

...

That didn't come out quite right, did it.

14:41 / 12.02.06

did anyone read Pete Doherty's "prison diaries" in the Guardian the other day?

We still have them to read. I can't wait, having read your description. 'Birded up', pshaw.

14:51 / 12.02.06

Well with the laboured way the german language handles neologisms the whole language is somewhat crying out for shorter slang words...

But that´s not what happens.

Above (picture) you can read the most infamous soccer slang ever:
Vom feeling her habe ich ein gutes Gefühl.
It´s so utterly stupid, because he wanted to sound cool, using an english word, and then is saying exactly the same in german (and obviously is not realizing that). Had he just said, what he meant (Ich habe ein gutes Gefühl.), it would have been much shorter, clearer and he would not have been made fun of for years.

That´s something else, that´s bugging me: the mix of english and german, which produces words, that are artificial, sound stupid and often are not understood. It´s not just people in sports ("Ich habe gefightet!" Aaargh!), but most of the time it´s german corporations. And to my mind, this can be considered slang, because often these words don´t even exist in english in the first place. The most infamous example being Handy. It´s the german word for cell phone. It´s supposed to sound better than Mobiltelefon, but noone outside Germany knows that a Handy is supposed to be a cellphone.

I know that languages change, in Berlin for example, we use a lot of french words, because at the end of the 17th century, the Prussian king allowed Huguenots to settle here. But the french words found their way into the Berlin-german vocabularly naturally.

The spreading of slang (in the widest sense) in the last decades instead is annoying. The best way to counter this is to keep on speaking in a slangfree manner. If somebody needs to know the lyrics of Lazy Sunday by heart to be understood, than this person is walking down a lingual dead end.

17:10 / 12.02.06

did anyone read Pete Doherty's "prison diaries" in the Guardian the other day? Shitting crikey, if I didn't want to punch the man before, I certainly do now.

Sounds well weapon to me.

17:24 / 12.02.06

Pete Doherty's De Profundis.

Couple of memorable images evoked but little other sign of the reputed wordsmithery.

17:51 / 12.02.06

Don´t give me any ideas:

Yet each man spills the slang he loves,
By each let this be heard,
Some do it with a sunday lazy,
Some with a birded up bird,
Pete Doherty does it with a diary,
The brave man with one word!

16:28 / 13.02.06

Hang on, do people really say things like 'ich habe gefightet'? Can this be true? Only it sounds like what English people do when they want to make fun of themselves for being rubbish at languages (while secretly patting themselves on the back over same) - see also Miles Kington's 'Let's Parler Franglais'...

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

16:35 / 13.02.06

Jack,

When I hear a word I have never heard before, I usually try to learn it. I do, on occasion, run into people who use slang from other parts of the world because they think it makes them sound worldly, when really, they just sound annoying.

Midwesterners saying "cheers" is fine, midwesterners saying "cheers" in a horrible mock English accent bothers me.

I think I spend to much time with posers.

16:44 / 13.02.06

people who use slang from other parts of the world because they think it makes them sound worldly

Your powers of mind-reading are truly astonishing. Tell me, what card am I thinking of right now?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

16:45 / 13.02.06

"Cheers" is funny, because (due to using it all the time) I've never actually considered the fact that it's regional. It's almost a tic- pretty much entirely phatic.

The only time I've ever been to the States, I was quite flabberghasted by the amount of reaction it generated (the best being mono's brother, this related by her other brother- "yeah, he's a nice enough guy. Says 'cheers' all the time, though, which is a bit weird").

The first day I was there, we went to a big charity shop- sorry, "thrift store". And I bought some stuff, and when I got my change, I said "cheers". The girl behind the counter said "whoah, you said 'cheers'. Everyone was saying that here a couple of years ago".
I replied "well, everyone says it in England".
"So you're ACTUALLY English? I thought you were just saying it for effect!"

For effect! Something I'm barely even conscious of saying at the best of times!

(I am well aware of the fact that this happens both ways, btw, and am not mocking Americans. It's just quite strange when you realise that things you do of which you are unaware actually do register with others. I also must admit that I find the idea of "cheers" being a fad somewhere really quite funny).

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

16:56 / 13.02.06

Stoatie, your example (the "for effect" part) is exactly what drives me nuts. Jack, perhaps I am just driven nuts by trivial vocabulary choices people make, but that is just how it is.

I should mention that when I meet someone from a part of the world which has wild slang I quite enjoy listening to it.

Is the word "dude" all over the world yet? I use it way more often then I should, but thats kind of the norm here.

17:09 / 13.02.06

I should mention that when I meet someone from a part of the world which has wild slang I quite enjoy listening to it.

Must be the new "some of my best friends are".

All Acting Regiment

17:12 / 13.02.06

Yep, dude appears everywhere (or at least everywhere where there's "titties" and "beers").

17:19 / 13.02.06

Hang on, do people really say things like 'ich habe gefightet'? Can this be true? Only it sounds like what English people do when they want to make fun of themselves for being rubbish at languages (while secretly patting themselves on the back over same)

They do, they do, it´s supposed to be funny. Again, this sentence was uttered by a sportsguy on tv. Everybody´s reaction: what an idiot, haha, I´ll use this catchphrase to be ironic and cool, and viola, another stupid beauty is born.

17:27 / 13.02.06

"Cheers" is funny, because (due to using it all the time) I've never actually considered the fact that it's regional. It's almost a tic- pretty much entirely phatic.

Same here. But a few months ago I was made aware of it when a US english speaker said that they eventually realised that it was a UK thing, rather than just me being odd (which everyone seemed to assume). A big deal, apparently.

I suppose it is my fault really and I should never have started calling certain roads "dual carriageways".

17:48 / 13.02.06

Poseur.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:06 / 15.02.06

Does it annoy me when people use slang that is not part of the local dialect? Um, which local dialect? Their own? Assuming they have one, and only one? How would I tell, given that I won't necessarily have established enough of their history, let alone have enough knowledge of their "local dialect" to judge? Why would I care?

13:38 / 15.02.06

There's a moldy joke about a guy who finally works up the courage to tell an old friend of his, "You're just so pretentious." And the friend says, "Moi?"

My children mock me relentlessly when we go somewhere new because I'm chameleon- like, and start sounding vaguely like whomever I'm speaking to. Go to the South and I start y'all-ing. (Actually, I find "y'all" to be useful somehow, although I think I use it a little idiosyncratically because I didn't grow up with it. So, I do feel a little, umm,...faux, using it...) And I confess I'm one of those annoying Americans who is horrible when we go to England. I have to consciously try to avoid sliding into a pretty awful mush-up of accent and idiom. (Just pronounce the damn 'r,' I tell myelf, no matter how it starts to grate on your own ear--and don't go adding an 'r' to the ends of words like "pasta")

In my own defense, I explained to my kids once that sometimes you get confused looks if you say things in your own dialect; if you know how they pronounce the words, or how they'd say the phrase, it can be reasonable to try to imitate it, because then they know what you're saying. So, of course, we don't pronounce "Thames" the way it "looks" to an American eye, so then you learn to not say "Derby" or "Leicester" they way it looks to an American eye, and then you start saying things like "cheers" [which when I first heard British people saying it I thought maybe they were saying the German word for good-bye, tchuss (sp?)]. Then one day you say "bloody hell" and you've definitely entered the realm of parody...

Anyway, my kids didn't believe me either until one tried to ask a stranger a question, and it wasn't until she slid into a more British mode of speech that he nodded and answered.

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:14 / 15.02.06

Oireeaaanoodeewhaoomeen.

The Return Of Rothkoid

23:33 / 15.02.06

You farken bewdy.

23:40 / 15.02.06

Spot the muckle loony.

03:36 / 16.02.06

The most infamous example being Handy. It´s the german word for cell phone

well, 'cell' is the abbreviation of 'cell phone', and on its own in a land where the things are called 'mobile phones', or 'mobile' for short, 'cell' invokes biology, crick and watson, prison and a host of other things, but not a telephone...

but some cultures pick up on, and deal with, 'foreign' slang better than others, no?