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Underground > Temple >

Woman in custody over "Voodoo Head"

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Less searchable M0rd4nt

22:54 / 13.02.06

MrCoffeeBean: Did we read the nice thread yet? Would bigger letters and shorter words help, maybe on a non-toxic chewable wipe-clean surface? Just for fun, you might try and find the following words and circle them with your crayons: HUMAN, REMAINS, SEVERED, HAZARDOUS, POSSIBLE, CONTAMINATION, OR, INFECTION, WHO'S, HEAD, WAS, IT, ANYWAY, AND, WHAT, DID, HE, DIE, OF. Won't that be fun?

Am I on crazy pills or did it suddenly become not fucked up to cart a severed and decomposing human head around? Sure, lots of cultures hold relics of the hallowed dead sacred, but if I came back from holiday with couple of knucklebones and a tibia glomphed from the Capuchin Church, Roma, I respectfully suggest that customs might have a thing or two to say about it.

23:13 / 13.02.06

but on the other hand there have been several incidents of sales of bodyparts from iraqsoldiers brought in by american and brittish soldiers... But i guess the army can carry anything in, i think its a bit harder if youre a black woman. So if you gonna smuggle dead folks or bodyparts in, just make sure youre a white western army, preferly male...

Less searchable M0rd4nt

23:56 / 13.02.06

So are you saying that the soldiers smuggling in bodyparts should be allowed to do so AND this woman should be allowed to carry in her severed head, legally and without let or hindrance from any authority? Or are you saying that the unethical and criminal activities of one group immediately legitimise the unethcal and criminal activites of everyone? Just so's we're clear, mind.

00:10 / 14.02.06

no, just pointing out that his piece of news are hypocritical and full of shit. News written in that way pisses me off. Th eunderlaying mening of the whole thing is "Look at us good western xians and them bad OTHER people".
Were bombarded with shit like this every fucking day without thinking about what it realy says.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

00:36 / 14.02.06

Then your problem is not "This is a legitimate activity criminalised by the Conservative and XIAN media" but "This is an illegitimate activity, but very small-scale in comparisom to other illegitimate activities perpetrated by the West. It is only being flagged up to draw attention away from said Western breaches of ethics/morality," right?

In which case, a more reasoned approach might have started with a reference to the current election debacle in Haiti, with particular reference to the West's role in helping to create the unspeakable suffering engulfing that nation and the growing possibility that Western forces may be wrecking the election process right now because they don't like the leading candidate and don't care how many Haitians get shot to keep him out of power. You know, number of Haitians killed by US and pals vs. head in a box?

But then you'd have to look at the bloody news now and again, wouldn't you. Or heck, even the Switchboard forum.

00:51 / 14.02.06

i just wonder how the newspiece would have been written if a american millionair got cought trying to smuggle a shrunken head into the country...

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

01:04 / 14.02.06

Am I on crazy pills or did it suddenly become not fucked up to cart a severed and decomposing human head around?

[discovers empty bottle of crazy pills]

what the fuck--WHO'S BEEN IN MY MEDICINE CABINET DAMMIT THOSE THINGS ARE EXPENSIVE

nah, it's pretty fucked up even by Florida standards.

no, just pointing out that his piece of news are hypocritical and full of shit. News written in that way pisses me off. Th underlaying meaning of the whole thing is "Look at us good western xians and them bad OTHER people".

Which parts gave you this impression? By "the whole thing" (whose underlaying meaning angers you so much), do you mean the article or the fact that a woman carrying a severed human head across national borders got arrested?

Keep in mind that we've already settled that "She's just practicing her religion" is not a defense for her actions.

Were bombarded with shit like this every fucking day without thinking about what it really says.

Shit like what? News about people carrying undeclared heads through customs and justifiably getting arrested for it?

08:05 / 14.02.06

If it were made according to tradition its proberly at least a hundread years old.

Expert on Haitian necromancy?

08:17 / 14.02.06

but on the other hand there have been several incidents of sales of bodyparts from iraqsoldiers brought in by american and brittish soldiers... But i guess the army can carry anything in, i think its a bit harder if youre a black woman. So if you gonna smuggle dead folks or bodyparts in, just make sure youre a white western army, preferly male...

Evidence please.

Also, quick point Mrcoffeebean (and apologies for the threadrot) but you do realise that both the US and British armies are not composed solely of caucasian men right?

The underlaying mening of the whole thing is "Look at us good western xians and them bad OTHER people".

No, it isn't.

As I said earlier, it is considered somewhat taboo by many Western societies to carry human remains around with you. Which is why this particular story got reported and several dozen attempts to take fruit into Australia didn't. Some people would consider it a little ghoulish, and extremely disrespectful to the dead.

The Christian religion does have a habit of storing the bones, etc of sainted people. But, as a rule, they keep them in churches or sanctified areas.

Mrcoffeebean, may I ask you a question? Do you not feel that this lady should, perhaps, have been respectful of the beliefs of the country she was visiting? Shirley there is some other way to protect yourself from evil spirits that won't instantly get you slammed in pokey for a week or so.

09:54 / 14.02.06

o, just pointing out that his piece of news are hypocritical and full of shit. News written in that way pisses me off. Th underlaying meaning of the whole thing is "Look at us good western xians and them bad OTHER people".

Which parts gave you this impression? By "the whole thing" (whose underlaying meaning angers you so much), do you mean the article or the fact that a woman carrying a severed human head across national borders got arrested?

I think there's a little of that "we're better than them" sentiment on the article, yes. Not much, mind you, just a little pinch. It can be seen in this particular phrase:

The practice of voodoo, an Afro-Caribbean religion whose roots go back thousands of years, is still widespread in Haiti.

Emphasis on the words still, as in "it's very primitive and backwards, but for some reason they still do it", and widespread, as if it would be some kind of disease or something.

But that's just a detail, not the "whole thing".

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

10:49 / 14.02.06

Or heck, even the Switchboard forum.

Or, y'know, not. Nothing to see over there. Really.

11:33 / 14.02.06

Cultural notes:

1. They don't shrink heads in Haiti. That happens thousands of miles to the west, in the Amazon.

2. It's illegal to be carrying around body parts in Haiti as well. The laws might not be pursued with the same vigor as in the States, but still, everybody knows where bodies belong. (Answer: not in carry-on luggage.)

3. If it was a white politician with a human head in his luggage, this would be front page, above-the-fold news, probably internationally. As it is, it's a downpage story on the front of the local section, I think.

11:41 / 14.02.06

They don't shrink heads in the amazon. At least, not to my knowledge. where did you get that info, grant?

11:50 / 14.02.06

Technically, it's the headwaters of the Amazon. The Shuar Jivaro people, in the jungly part of Peru & Ecuador.

As a further note, a shrunken head wouldn't have a skull in it.

19:49 / 15.02.06

grant: an infinite source of knowledge

I don't care about the srunk heads, but the article mentions a sword used by the natives for decapitation of enemies. That I'd like to have one.

Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown

01:25 / 16.02.06

I'm a touch confused.

Was the head just plain severed, or was it shrunken? Either way its illegal to transport internationally (hell, its probably illegal to transport nationally), but I'm confused as to the state of the head.

This ain't a religious freedom issue, despite what MrCoffeeBean may believe. Its just, plain and simple, illegal to carry bits of dead people around. It doesn't matter if that's your shrunken head with which to ward off evil, the Hand of St...whatever, or your Dead Uncle Norman.

Now, I doubt she'd be taking quite the same flack if it were, say...I dunno. The head of some none endangered animal (though she'd get in trouble if she didn't declare she was bringing dead non-local fauna across the border). But that's because killing an animal isn't illegal. ANd if you're carrying someone's body part, customs has to prove that you didn't kill them, or rob their grave, or assist or encourage someone else to kill them.

Just because museums transport mummies all over the world, and they ship the remains of soldiers back from Iraq doesn't mean that there isn't paperwork involved. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean its not there.

...sorry. I'm ever so slightly tipsy from too much liquor and not enough food. I apologize for the slight rantish quality of all this.

12:55 / 16.02.06

Well. she's out:
(emphasis mine)
(CBS4 News) FT. LAUDERDALE The Miramar woman jailed for smuggling a human head into the U.S. in her carry on bag, has been released from a federal detention center.
On Monday, Myrlene Severe posted the $10,000 needed for her $100,000 bond but was not released from jail until 10 a.m. today .
Severe, 30, also was charged with not having the proper paperwork for the skull, as well as bringing hazardous material on an airplane.
Severe was returning from a trip to Cap Haitien, Haiti, when a U.S. Customs and Border Protection officer at the Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport spotted the skull. It was inside a rice bag with dirt, a rusted nail and a banana leaf.
Severe told officials that she got the ''package'' from a Haitian man and planned to use it to ward off evil spirits as part of her Vodou beliefs, according to an Immigration & Customs Enforcement affidavit.
Her arraignment is set for March 2 before U.S. Magistrate Barry S. Seltzer.

Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown

18:42 / 16.02.06

::sighs:: Words you never want to say to an American customs inspector: "It was a strange package given to me by an old man for religious reasons."

Doesn't matter who you are. Because that custom's inspector isn't thinking about what your skin color is, or where you just came from. He's imagining the following exchange:

"Here. It wards off evil spirits."
"But its TICKING!"
"Thats good. The ticking wards off the evil spirits."
"Its ticking. And its attached to dynamite."
"The explosion's what makes the warding work so well. Do you know what else makes it work really well? Taking it on an airplane. While its ticking."

19:10 / 16.02.06

Doesn't matter who you are. Because that custom's inspector isn't thinking about what your skin color is, or where you just came from.

In theory, at least...

09:39 / 17.02.06

I can't resist quoting Fight Club:

SECURITY TFM
(to Jack)
Throwers don't worry about ticking.
Modern bombs don't tick.

JACK
Excuse me? "Throwers?"

SECURITY TFM
Baggage handlers. But when a
suitcase vibrates, the throwers have
to call the police.

Side-stepping the debate about whether this is a religious freedom issue or not, what do people think about the effectiveness of warding off evil spirits this head had?

To me, it seems, it had no effectiveness at all, quite the opposite: it attracted customs people as walls to the woman's freedom; the "old man in haitii" appears a source of this complex, confusing and possibly contaminated, possibly illegal, possibly desecrated/contentious/malicious relic; it got her imprisoned, cost her/her-family a lot of $$$s etc etc.

As someone just stepping into magickal observation and discussion (and barely even approaching practice yet) I'm intrigued by what people think here.

10:06 / 17.02.06

I don't think you really know what you are talking about.

For a start "It wards off evil spirits" and "an old man in Haiti gave it to me" is not nearly enough information to even begin to speculate on whether the work was a success or not. If a head has been prepared as, say, a talisman for keeping spirits of the restless dead at bay - this does not also mean it will be invisible to customs officials. There could also be all manner of factors we don't know about, even assuming the lady was being totally upfront about the magical purpose of the head and not just giving a simplified version to the authorities - which is more than likely. I don't think you can really speculate about this at all based on the facts that we have.

10:29 / 17.02.06

I've made a comment about the eficacy of that talisman upthread, but I don't mind paraphrasing it: my personnal - tentative - experience tells me body parts of once-living things are actually very "bad mojo" to their owners. I mean, if it ties a spirit to this plane, it will get the spirit angry, and it will take any opportunity to screw you up real good. And that works for severed human heads as well stuffed animals, and etc. Representations of body parts work better.

But that's just me, and I'm far from being an experienced mysticist. Mordant Carnival, Ilmatic, and the other mods may have different opinions.

11:00 / 17.02.06

Dead Megatron: Please don't take this the wrong way, but I really cannot emphasise enough how much you do not know what the fuck you are talking about.

Haitian necromancy is a hugely sophisticated area of magic. It utilises parts of the dead for a variety of purposes, both malefic and benign. It's really powerful stuff. Are
you an expert on the finer points of boneyard sorcery? I don't fucking think so. It's not just a case of "bits of dead people = bad juju". Your average Haitian doc knows how to channel that bad juju towards more purposes than you have had hot dinners. More purposes than you have made ill-considered posts on barbelith. It's like a science in its own right.

All Acting Regiment

11:34 / 17.02.06

Gypsy L, we can see that this is something you know a lot about, and you don't want people to carry false ideas, but is there any real need for you do not know what the fuck you are talking about?

11:56 / 17.02.06

Yes

Less searchable M0rd4nt

12:07 / 17.02.06

I don't know about 'the fuck' necessarily but being fed a generous spoonful of 'you do not know what you're talking about' on a regular basis is a healthy addition to your balanced breakfast, however long you've been practicing. (I've just punted a runic magic text across the room for talking about 'the practice of voodoo in primitive cultures' in a dismissive manner.) This goes double for anyone talking about Vodoun who's not actually a voudouisant.

And Megsy, looking to the mod hat as an indicator of how much magical arse a particular poster kicks is a rather collosal red herring.

12:22 / 17.02.06

Gypsy, what part of "in my experience" and "that's just me" did you not get? Sure, the haitian docs (and any kind of shaman) must know plenty of ways to turn this around amd make it positive. I just wanted to enphasize that it's dangerous for us, amateurs (and by "us" I mean "me" actually, since I've already screw up with that once) to try doing that by ourselves. Gee, why some people take different opinion so personaly and agressively? I, by no mean, have any "prejudiced" opinion on so-called "primitive" or "tribal" wisdom, if that's what you thought (but I'm betting you'll find some reason to bash my comments anyway)

And MC, the reference to mods is just a way to show respect for those who are obviously more experienced than me. But I do find a few of the barbelithians to be quite a good source for advice/information, specially (and i'm not trying to flatter anyone) you and Monkey Shot come to my mind. I'm still accessing indidually...

12:28 / 17.02.06

To qualify that, I believe that it is both unethical and irresponsible to offer your perspective on the subtleties of a complex subject that you have barely the vaguest understanding of. Occult message boards on the internet are rife with "armchair specialists" all too ready to offer their opinions on subjects they have barely scratched the surface of. Everyone is an "expert" on the internet and - especially for the uninformed reader - it is often very difficult to separate signal from noise at the best of times. Dead Megatron's post above is a comparatively benign example of this, especially as he does qualify his post by citing his lack of experience on the subject.

However, this is the second time he has forwarded this opinion. The first time, I politely asked if he was an expert on Haitian sorcery to be speaking so authoritatively on the matter. DM didn't respond to that, which is fair enough. But when he piped up again to reiterate the same thing, I thought it was fair to call him on it in the way that I did. I would like to see a Temple forum where people post from either direct personal experience or from solid academic research, and not just offer up *what they happen to think* straight out of their imagination with no grounding in either practice or research. On a good day, against all the odds, barbelith is actually like that. I think the way to keep it like that is to create a climate where contributors know that they are likely to be given short shrift if they are seemingly only posting because they love the sound of their own voice.

12:59 / 17.02.06

I would like to see a Temple forum where people post from either direct personal experience or from solid academic research, and not just offer up *what they happen to think* straight out of their imagination with no grounding in either practice or research.

Keeping the above in mind then (although I'd rather not here tales of personal experience of magic with heads), I'd like to ask a question regarding use of human remains in Haitian magic. Is there a consensus on whether or not consent of the person whose head it used to be makes any difference in the protective abilities of said head.

I only ask as, as far as I am aware, no information has yet been discovered regarding the identity of the head.

I would also appreciate someone explaining how/why the head is useful as protection.

13:24 / 17.02.06

Consent of the owner of the head is not really an issue. The standing of the person who made the head with certain Lwa and their ability to control the spirit of that head to do what they want is the issue. It's all deeply ethically fucked, but extremely strong magic. Which is why it gets done. Haiti is rather a heavy place. To be honest, I'd rather not talk about it at all. I'm by no means an expert on the subject in any sense. So I keep my trap shut, unless someone is obviously spouting ill-informed opinion with no basis in experience or verifiable research.

13:35 / 17.02.06

Out of interest, ES, you can find similar things in Hindu tantra, and again, consent of the former "owner" of the head is not an issue. This might range from skull begging bowls through to the actual worship and installation of spirits of a number of skulls around a mediation site.

Disclaimer: I've no idea how current or widespread these practices are, neither have I any idea how they are viewed by the Indian authorities. With increasing distrust, I would imagine. There's an interview with an Indian tantric who incorporates skull worship heavily in his practice in Tantra in Theory and Practice (ed. David Gordon White). The interviews are dated 1993-4 and the interviewee mentions that traditional tantric practices are becoming harder to pursue.

Unconditional Love

13:54 / 17.02.06

This is just speculation, but severed heads especially of enemies have been used by cultures to show there might in combat, its also thought that to take the head of an enemy is to control the soul in death. I believe the celts are ascribed to have mounted the heads of there enemies and there by gained there power.

It may be that a dead spirit, particularly depending on its station in life, say a soldier, bodyguard or police officer. may be contained within its skull and then bound to protect the owner of that skull. I would guess the nail is from the skulls coffin and so is the earth. i have no idea about the banana leaf, which i am wondering about.
I am guessing the nail and earth act as connections to the site of the skulls grave, also seen as a strong area to connect to the deceased.

But, it is all guess work and pretty basic at that.

Unconditional Love

14:20 / 17.02.06

Ritual use of skulls and bones

We all have them and use them everyday. However, in our culture, we do not normally see them, nor do we like to. In fact, we take great care to avoid seeing these things, for in youth-oriented Western society, dying is considered a catastrophe and death is a secret. Since the 1920's in most of North America, it has been the practice to embalm corpses and use cosmetics on them. We rarely get to see the structures that support and contain our humanity.

In the highest mountains, where the soil is not deep and the air clear and dry, the bones of animals and human beings could be seen just as they are. Also, above the tree line, wood for carving or sculpting is not easily come by, and so bone often fulfills that purpose. For example, a thighbone makes a good trumpet; a skull, a bowl. Bones, human and animal are also used to make ornaments and ritual items like malas and bead "aprons."

Unconditional Love

14:43 / 17.02.06

kapala practice

Having chosen the right skull, it is important to handle it with due care and circumstances. The "Jewel-bowl" (rin chen thod pa) should never be left empty or lying upside down, otherwise the beneficent qualities of the skull will be useless for the bearer.

Should the practitioner have been lucky enough to find a skull still attached to a corpse before the rig pa, or consciousness, has left the body, he should wrap it immediately into a piece of human skin. For the cleansing process the head may be buried in mud or clay, put into hot springs for three days - according to a modern method - boiled in hot water with plenty of soda.

kapalas can be bought here allegedly

Unconditional Love

14:54 / 17.02.06

The Forensics of Sacrifice: A Symbolic Analysis of Ritualistic Crime

I came across this article while doing a search for ritualistic use of human skulls, i am not sure what to make of it, and i dont like the feel of it on an initial read, but see what you think.

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