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Underground > Comic Books >

Superman/Batman

  
 
Triplets
17:00 / 10.02.06
Keep seeing this in the local com shop. Seen some covers with a Composite Superbatman Robot, Kryptonite Batman(?), Superwoman and Batwoman. Could this comic possibly be as joycore silverage as the covers make it out to be?

What's it about, like?

Should I pick it up from the beginning with the whole Supes&Bats do Apollo&Midnighter on the run from the law or is there a better jumping on point?

When did Eddy McGuiness start drawing it?
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
17:47 / 10.02.06
IMHO, yes, it's both joycore and, to some degree, silver age, but with modern sensibilities for the kids.
There's going to be SPOILERS.





The first story arc was kinda standard D.C stuff: A Kyrptonite Asteroid was heading for Earth, President Luthor blamed Superman and a billion dollar bounty was placed on his head (because there's no enough incentive for villains to kill Superman anyway). The story gets more preposterous in wonderful ways (Batman and Superman vs. every DCU villain, B&S vs. the Justice League, a fourteen year old kid building a half Bats half Supes robot to destroy the asteroid). The climax has Captain Atom going into the Wildstorm Universe, Supergirl arriving and a beaten-up Lex Luthor vowing that there will be 'a crisis'.
Then there's the whole Supergirl arriving thing for a few issues, which ammounts to an all-you-can-eat cheesecake buffet which takes us all the way to Apokolips by way of an all-out assault on Themyscara by an army of Doomsdays (way more hardcore than Omacs) and includes the welcome return of Big Barda.
Next up: the evil adult Legion of Superheroes From the Future (I think) changes history so Supes and Batman are evil dictators. tEh Joycore occurs when Superman has to go on a jaunt around a bunch of paralell universes, meeting everyone from Metron to Sgt. Rock and Easy Company, and teaming up with Darkseid.
Which brings us to the latest and greatest Superman & Batman story, in which Loeb has decided to go completely into the Silverage insanity plus Postmodern intertextual irony thing. S&B are kidnapped by 'The Maximums', a thinly veiled Ultimates (Soldier, The Hornet, Viking, Monster, Archer etc.) and taken to their paralell universe (huh? anyone remember a little thing called the Crisis?), prompting Bizarro and Batzarro (the world's worst detective) to intervene as only they can. There's not only an affectionate parody of the Marvel Universe, but Batman of the Future, Communist Superman, Superwoman and Batwoman, Mr. Mxyplkc(?) and the Joker. I was laughing all the way through it at what crazy plot twist they'd throw in next.

It's a good series. Not groundbreaking, but good. It dispenses with all the Infinite Crisis stuff to just tell massive stories with D.C's two biggest characters. If IC turns you off then this and Plasticman is the way to go. Also, I have a faint suspiscion that the most recent story is set One Year Later, hence all the multiverses, and is hopefully a sneak preview of things to come.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:47 / 10.02.06
Ed McG. drew it starting with the very first arc, issues 1-6.

Honestly, the Jeph Loeb-written Superman/Batman series is pretty badly-written, although the first arc is entertaining, and it does have a huge composite Superman/Batman robot, as well as the new Toyman, a snarky kid who builds said robot. Loeb has been compared to Jerry Bruckheimer (Loeb even said he wanted the series to feel like a Bruckheimer film, huge action and such), and the first 6 issues are like that - not much of it is very good, but it's at most just silly fun, and at worst it's badly-written.
 
 
Triplets
18:31 / 10.02.06
Triplets loves P.H.E.X.

Thanks to you and FinderWolf. I'm looking for a Saturday morning cartoon in paper form and I think this is it. Banged on about my love for Superman/Batman/Justice League Adventures elsewhere in here, hope this will be more of the same. Bring on Peidei like. Will post a brain-o-matic thoughtdump review early March I reckon.

it's at most just silly fun

Sold!
 
 
Triplets
18:32 / 10.02.06
Also: Batzarro. Holy fuck YES.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
18:57 / 10.02.06
I'm loathe to spoil the best part about Batzarro, but I'll just say it makes the awesomeness that is Batzarro even awesomer.
 
 
X-Himy
00:12 / 11.02.06
Jeph Loeb, who never met heavy handed concurrent captions he didn't like.

Ed McGuiness, he who draws characters with necks three times thicker than heads, giving everyone a zippy-esque appearance without an iota of the charm.

And storylines that make the occasional nod towards nostalgia while positively groaning under angst. I honestly thought it was not a fraction as fun as described earlier in the thread.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
02:19 / 11.02.06
Also, it's practically explicit with the Superman/Batman love.
 
 
Triplets
02:58 / 11.02.06
Sold!
 
 
LDones
03:16 / 11.02.06
I've been reading this series since issue one, sometimes against my better judgement. One thing that keeps bringing me back is the fun of seeing 5-6 year old Superman title story threads all being wrapped up. Old bits from President Luthor and Emperor Joker stories, among others. Another is McGuinness' art, which I've adored since I first saw it in a comic book.

Loeb isn't afriad to make fun of himself in here (Batzarro's captions which exactly repeat what he's just said out loud are cute), but his tendencies for violence-porn are a bit jarring now and then. The snuff-quality of a particular scene drawn by Carlos Pacheco where Superman snaps Wonder Woman's neck with her magic lasso still makes my skin crawl. The Supergirl arc followed by the Legion of Supervillains arc both turned me off.

That having been said, I'm enjoying the latest arc, with Red Son Superman and Batman Beyond Batman both making cute non-sequitur appearances, and this last issue's reveal of the ultimate masterminds behind the cosmic plot had me grinning like a schoolgirl. McGuinness is brining the silliness and joy back to it again, despite a change in his art style since the first arc and even his JLA:C work that makes Superman seem insanely pissed all the time.

It's a guilty pleasure, when it doesn't make me feel a bit unclean for reading.
 
 
FinderWolf
11:57 / 11.02.06
I do really like McGuiness' art, ridiculously thick necks and all. My interest in this book grows whenever McGuiness is on it.

The final issue of this written by Loeb (#26) will be an issue-long tribute of sorts to his son, Eric, who recently passed away (I get the impression he was young, maybe in college or high school). Eric Loeb had written a 6-page Buffy the Vampire slayer story under supervision of father Loeb and Joss Whedon, and was halfway through writing Batman/Superman #26 when he passd away, so a lot of major writers & artists were called in to finish the issue and infuse it with a tribute to him.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
20:35 / 29.03.06
#24's out today. I only really picked it up because of Laurel "Superwoman" Kent, Helena "Batwoman" Wayne, and Superlad, who I'd imagine is Kar-El or something. Bizarro and the Legion of Supergirls -- missing Matrix, sadly. Darkseid, the Black Queen. Miss Miracle & Big Bard. It was a pretty random issue, but fun in its own way.
 
 
LDones
23:20 / 29.03.06
Good stupidity. Leading into what I'm sure will be a fine end to McGuinness-brand Superman stories that have spanned the last 6 or so years.

Bizarro and the Legion of Supergirls need a mini.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
00:52 / 30.03.06
I've read a good portion of this "Maximums" storyline, and yet I still haven't got half a clue what's going on.
 
 
LDones
02:28 / 30.03.06
Don't try to make too much sense of it.

It's really just the idea that Mxyzptlk and the Joker are making their final revenge on Supes/Bats by having them face Marvel knock-offs in a rematch between M and J.

WAY back in the Superman titles, Mxy was trying to play a trick on Superman by giving the Joker 1% of his impish powers for a day - but the Joker tricked him, took 99% of his powers, and remade the entire universe in his image, created Bizarro and a host of weird supervillains to be that world's Justice League, and crafted an earth where Superman was The World's Most Wanted Criminal, John Henry Irons was a bookish nerd in an Arkham Asylum run by Solomon Grundy, and Batman was brutally murdered every night at a set hour, only to be resurrected each day to do it again.

It wasn't perfect by any means, but those were good Superman stories. Loads of fun. Loads of McGuinness, art by Duncan Rouleau, Kano, Mark Weiringo. Joe Kelly did some great work then, too.

This final arc from Loeb is basically the swan song to the McGuinness/Loeb/Kelly/Everyone years of Superman stories, and the final followup to Emperor Joker, which was a lot of fun.
 
 
FinderWolf
23:12 / 19.05.06
and it ends incomprehensibly. I'm curious about the Sam Loeb-written next issue, though, with all the guest artists. That might be cool.
 
 
LDones
23:59 / 19.05.06
This was an issue that makes a more entertaining synopsis than a comics read.

The comic saw an appearance by Zebra-Suit Batman, the DCU return of both Bat-Mite and the Composite Superman, and a major hint-drop about what that whole 'Look To The Sky' thing DC's been muttering about is (4th World Meets 5th Dimension, apparently). ANd yet, aside from some McGuinnes artgasm moments, is boring to read.


So Bizarro's Legion of Supergirls free Superman from the Source Wall while the Joker and Mxyzptlk (on a fresh followup bet from the time the Joker became Emperor of the Universe) pit Batman and an alternate universe's Batwoman, Superwoman, and Superlad against Avengers-analogues the Maximums in a battle to the death. Using godlike power, the Joker summons Lex Luthor, Evil Kon-El, Evil Supergirl, and Darkseid to join the fray, and Mxyzptlk summons in-and-out -of-continuity versions of Superman and Batman (including Zebra Batman, Black-Suit/Mullet Superman, and Golden Age versions of both)

Then all the Supermen and Batmen morph into the Composite Superman to fight the giant Composite Marvel Monster Guy.

Bizarro mourns the death of Batzarro and takes a Blue Kryptonite ring from Batzarro's utility belt - which makes Bizarro a genius. He locates his Phantom Zone Projector to put his best friend Batzarro in stasis, but accidentally hits the Joker with it, somehow freeing Bat-Mite from inside of him, which was Mxyzptlk's goal all along.

They send everyone home, Mxy and Bat-Mite talk about how these Marvel characters are all just pale knock-offs of Supes/Bats, offhandedly mention what I can only imagine was a plot that Jeph Loeb was forced to alter in Superman/Batman due to Infinite Crisis, and then it ends with Darkseid and Mxy plotting something.


And somehow, despite being the culmination of about 7 years of stories, it's still pretty boring.

At least the pictures are pretty.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
02:50 / 20.05.06
Should be noted that it also features an appearance by this gentleman:

  
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
03:58 / 20.05.06
Ldones: This was an issue that makes a more entertaining synopsis than a comics read.

The flaw in Loeb's thinking seems to be that it's okay to throw a bunch of Silver Age throwback fun fan-favourite elements at the reader without actually bothering to link all of them into a real plot. Pretty but empty. Silver Age fetishism has its fun, its place, but when I flipped through this comic in the store it made me ache for comics freed from the tired recycling of the past. And I like Silver Age mad concepts, but having Bat-Mite in a mindless story with no real point doesn't negate the mindlessness or lack of, well, anything...
 
 
Mario
13:06 / 20.05.06
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't any story that includes Bat-Mite fairly mindless by default?
 
 
John Octave
14:00 / 21.05.06
The flaw in Loeb's thinking seems to be that it's okay to throw a bunch of Silver Age throwback fun fan-favourite elements at the reader without actually bothering to link all of them into a real plot.

There's that, but I think Loeb's other problem is that he just takes all these Silver Age elements verbatim without updating or tweaking them. Loeb's Bizarro, for example, is pretty much the exact same Bizarro you saw in the '50s and '60s.

Morrison, on the other hand, will put a little spin on things like switching Superman's giant, heavy key with a tiny, heavier key. Shaving the Shaggy Man! All of it updated to keep it new and exciting, but still harkening back to the source material.

Even Waid, who's just as much a Silver Age romantic as Loeb, will reintroduce Silver Age concepts while still throwing you a curve (the idea that in the 31st century, calling yourself "Element Lad" would be considered really cool, and the whole Colossal Boy/Micro-Lad schtick).
 
 
Panic
16:57 / 21.05.06
sound of Panic sobbing and crumpling up his pitch for THE DARK MITE RETURNS and tossing it in the can
 
 
The Falcon
21:58 / 21.05.06
Well, Bat-mite was in that Allred Doom Patrol/Titans mashup (in Solo,) which was literally the shit. I'd not say it was especially brainy (braney?) but it was proper bo', mindless or otherwise.
 
  
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