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the horse and the dragon

 
 
pacha perplexa
21:35 / 21.02.02
Hi, guys! I'm back from the dead and in need of opinions and information..

A few days ago I had the following dream:
there was this huge dragon that lived in the sea and killed everyone that dared to aproach the water. Then one day someone fought the beast and killed it.

But the dragon reincarnated! And this time it started to kill people again on land - which means no one was safe.

So someone (I think it was a shaman) told me I had to defeat it, this time. To accomplish the task, I was trained till exaustion, so that I'd be 'ready to face the danger'.

So, when the dragon appeared, I turned myself (with lots of effort) into a horse, and with a suicidal courage, went to battle.

I woke up with the impression of having submited the dragon to my will, not sure.

On that day, and this is the fun part, I was told by meme buggerer that we had entered the chinese year of the horse! I didn't even know that the chinese new year was on february

Well, anyway, here's what I'd like to know from my dearest oracles:

-what can you tell me about the symbols horse and dragon (not only from the point of view of chinese mythology)?

- how do they relate to each other?

- My life's been a mess because of my decision to stay in London (a difficoult one, for it involved homesickness, fear, humility). How can this be related to the dream?

Any insights appreciated, and thanks in advance!
 
 
Bear
10:51 / 22.02.02
I don't know much about the Chinese side of things but I'd imagine the dream is more about you facing your fears and staying in London?

<off/topic> are you still living near Oval station I'm just up the road from there <off/topic>
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:29 / 22.02.02
Okay, random stuff gleaned from the net:

A few animals are associated with infertility because their success is incompatible with the survival of the tribe. For example, dragons indicate lack of fertility. Two dragons were heard screaming on the island of Britain every May 1st, and this caused sterility in all living creatures of the land and water (Ford, 113-116). A dragon briefly ravaged Ireland, ruining the land and preventing daily activities (Spector, 17-18). The dragons had to be destroyed in order to restore the fertility of the land. No specific causes were given for the arrival of the dragons. (From this web page)

A little info on Chinese symbolism here, and info on the Year of the horse here.

Hope this helps. I'll see if anything else turns up.
 
 
Papess
13:40 / 22.02.02
What colour was the dragon?

~May
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:47 / 22.02.02
Ooh, good point!
 
 
cusm
13:47 / 22.02.02
Hmm... 2000 was the year of the Earth Dragon. 2002 is the year of the Horse. I think 2001 was the Hare, but I'm not certain about that one. I didn't pay it as much attention as I did the others, which are major personal symbols for me.

A little on that:

Horses are wild and free spirited creatures, with great strength. Harnessed by man, they are among our first and most important tools, beyond stone axes and the like, as the horse gave man the ability to travel far and fast and to do far more work than he could before. Horses in this sense symbolize power harnessed.

Dragons on the other hand, are power unharnessed, free and wild, ravaging and destructive. Uncontained, uncontrolled, and usually quite unfriendly. They share with Lions as representing the primal or "lower soul" energies such as lust and rage.

Note that I'm mostly just pulling references around the relation between Horse and Dragon that are most applicable here. There are many other interpretations for these primal and powerful symbols. More on Horse and dragon here.. There was a much better site on Spirit Animals once with stories and the like, but its gone now and this is the best my bookmarks still have, alas.

I think this has to do with controlled and harnessed energies against uncontrolled and wild energies, as represented by your extensive training before taking the form of a horse to defeat the dragon.

[ 22-02-2002: Message edited by: cusm ]
 
 
pacha perplexa
14:21 / 22.02.02
Bear, yeah, that's what I thought. But you know when you have the impression that the symbols could be giving you some hints on how to proceed?

Because, even knowing that I should face my fears, sometimes (I've been experimenting this for the last few weeks) I feel paralyzed, without a clue on where's the road I thought I was following.

I'm sorry, this is so confusing... But thanks!

<off topic> Nope, I'm on the opposite side, now, in Hendon Central. But next week I'll be moving to Sunningdale (near Heatrow, aaarrr) because that was the only place in which I found a job...
Will you be at the birthday-barbe-meeting on saturday? </off topic>
 
 
pacha perplexa
14:35 / 22.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Mordant C@rnival:
Okay, random stuff gleaned from the net:

A few animals are associated with infertility because their success is incompatible with the survival of the tribe. For example, dragons indicate lack of fertility. Two dragons were heard screaming on the island of Britain every May 1st, and this caused sterility in all living creatures of the land and water (Ford, 113-116). A dragon briefly ravaged Ireland, ruining the land and preventing daily activities (Spector, 17-18). The dragons had to be destroyed in order to restore the fertility of the land. No specific causes were given for the arrival of the dragons. (From this web page)


Thanks, dear!!

Now, this is spooky, lemme explain: two years ago I had a boyfriend who died after a two month coma. This was a huge psychological trauma, so that my last period was days before he died.

Yeah, I haven't had a single period since the end of 1999! This means I'm sterile unless I can ovulate again. Already went to three doctors, sigilized twice, went to therapy, but nothing seems to work.

So maybe..... Ohmygod.
Oh
my
god.
I'll keep you updated on this.

...



May: I have no idea. But you can be sure it was of a dark color (black and red, black and green)...
 
 
pacha perplexa
14:51 / 22.02.02
quote:Originally posted by cusm:
I think this has to do with controlled and harnessed energies against uncontrolled and wild energies, as represented by your extensive training before taking the form of a horse to defeat the dragon.

[ 22-02-2002: Message edited by: cusm ]


Hmmmm... Aye, this is quite clear. Harnessing the power - like the horse - to go as 'far and fast' as I can without overdriving or destroying everything along the way (like my sanity..) - which would be the dragon's way of life.

I still have to check the other references, thanks a lot for the URLs and the research, cusm!

Fuck, this was one of the best dreams I've ever had.
 
 
grant
17:24 / 22.02.02
If it matters, horses are also sacred to Poseidon. He helped heroes defeat sea monsters, if I recall correctly.
 
 
Papess
18:03 / 22.02.02
Here is a cool quiz to find your inner dragon.

It might be helpful.

~May
 
 
pacha perplexa
18:36 / 24.02.02
You're probably right, grant - here's what I got from a Dictionary of Mythology someone borrowed me recently:

"Poseidon appeared in the guise oif a horse in the Pelloponesus, a guise he had adopted to mate with Demeter, herself transformed into a mare (what's that?). From their union Ariel the horse was born, as was a daughter whose name was know only to the initiated.

Horses, sea, seamonsters... I'm still amazed about the way it all relates.

And my inner dragon is the yellow one, heh..

"You like to spend time in silent, aerial meditation and would only really attack someone if provoked. Your favorable attributes are the sunrise, Spring, incense, clouds, and any kind of helpful air mass or current. When it's needed, your breath weapon is pure bolts of Lightning."
 
 
Seven Suns
19:44 / 24.02.02
Ana!!!!
Soh kiria dizer q to morrendo de saudade...
Teu blog faz uma faaaaaaalta...
E ai,vc ta aonde???

Mil bejus!!!!!!

.Ed
 
 
Perfect Tommy
21:24 / 24.02.02
A mare is an adult female horse.
 
 
Rev. Wright
11:02 / 25.02.02
Here is some stuff I found on Dragons on the net. I am compiling info on them as I have had a strong dragon totem, whilst doing spiritual work, including the banishing of strong negative entities.

quote: DRAGONS ~ WINGED SERPENTS


Dragons are winged beings portrayed in the ancient mythologies of most cultures.

According to the dictionary they were fabulous animals usually represented as a monstrous winged and scaly serpent or saurian with a crested head and enormous claws. - also - a monster, represented usually as a gigantic reptile breathing fire and having a lion's claws, the tail of a serpent, wings and scaly skin.

Mythology about dragons appear in the traditions of virtually all peoples back to the beginning of time - though dragons appeared in various forms.

Among their earliest forms, dragons were associated with the Great Mother, the water god and the warrior sun god. In these capacities they had the power to be both beneficient and destructive and were all-powerful creatures in the universe. Because of these qualities, dragons assumed the roles taken by Osiris and Set in Egyptian mythology.

By the time of the early Egyptian period a considerable dragon- and serpent-worshipping cult had developed. This cult gradually spread to Babylon, India, the Orient, the Pacific Islands, and finally the North American continent, as more and more cultures began to recognize and appreciate the special powers and intelligence of dragons. The cult reached its peak during the days of the Roman Empire and disappeared with the advent of Christianity.Ê

The dragon's form arose from his particular power of control over the waters of the earth and gave rise to many of the attributes singled out by different peoples as the whole myth developed.

They were believed to live at the bottom of the sea, where they guarded vast treasure hoards,very frequently of pearls. Rain clouds and thunder and lightning were believed to be the dragon's breath, hence the fire-breathing monster.

The significance of the dragon was its control over the destiny of mankind.

As the myth developed in the western world, dragons came to represent the chaos of original matter with the result that with man's awakening conscience a struggle arose, and the created order constantly challenged the dragon's power.

This type of dragon was considered by many to be the intermediate stage between a demon and the Devil and as such came into Christian belief.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, in the Eastern world the dragon adopted a rather different significance. He was essentially benevolent, son of heaven, and controlled the watery elements of the universe.

Dragons have been an integral part of the culture of the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese peoples since the beginning of recorded history. In China they are used to mark the stairways over which only the Emperor could be carried. In Japan they are used in Buddhist temples both as decoration and as fountain heads for purification before worship. In many cases the dragon is combined with the phoenix to symbolize long life and prosperity. It is also combined with the tiger to represent heaven and earth or inyo (Yin and Yang).

The male dragon holds a war club in its tail while the female dragon holds a sensu or fan in its tail. One of the problems lies in that you cannot always see the tail or tell the difference between the fan or the war club.

The Chinese dragon is a central figure of both good and evil in their fables and legends. According to the Chinese the dragon originated in their middle kingdom and has always had five toes. The dragon by nature is a gregarious creature who wanders the earth. However, the farther it goes from China, the more toes it loses. Hence, when it reached Korea it only had four toes and by the time it got to Japan it only had three. This also explains why it never made it to Europe or the Americas in that by the time it got that far it had lost all of its toes and could not walk.

The Japanese account of the dragon is very similar to that of the Chinese. The Japanese also believe that the dragon had its origins in their country. Again they know that the dragon has a tendency to travel and the farther it travels, the more toes it grows. By the time it reached Korea it had four and by the time it got to China it had five. Again this is the reason it never made it much farther than China. It kept growing toes and could not walk any further.

The Koreans tell a similar story of the dragon. They of course know that the dragon began with them. Probably just like they know that karate began in Korea. The Korean dragon has always had four toes. When the dragon travels East or North, it loses toes. When it travels South or West it gains toes. This explains why the Japanese dragon has three toes and the Chinese dragon has five toes. It also explains why the dragon never made it to Europe or the Americas. As it traveled West to Europe, it grew so many toes that it could no longer walk. As it traveled East to the Americas, it lost all of its toes and could no longer walk.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Western type of dragon has been variously described, and individual dragons had their own unique forms. They appeared to be created from parts of various creatures, with the result that in general, they were described as having eagle's feet and wings, lion's forelimbs and head, fish's scales, antelope's horns and a serpentine form of trunk and tail, which occasionally extended to the head.

In parts of Africa where the dragon is also considered as an evil power, the monster was believed to be the result of the unnatural union of an eagle and a she-wolf.

The destructive powers of the dragon derived from it's fiery breath, which can devastate whole countries. Dragon's eyes also have this fiery red quality, sometimes believed to reflect the treasures they guarded.

Later traditions believed that misers would assume the form of dragons by constantly gloating over their treasure.

The dragon fears nothing except the elephant with whom he will engage in battle, entwining himself around the elephant and inflicting fatal blows. However, as the elephant finally collapses, his fall crushes the dragon to death.

The dragon is supposedly the enemy of the sun and the moon, both in Eastern and Western mythology, and is believed to be responsible for eclipses. These occur when the dragon is attempting to swallow either of the heavenly boddies; which accounts for the dragon's appearance in primitive astronomy.

In Armenian traditions, the fire and lightning god had powers to stay the dragon's control of the heavens, as could thunderbolts in Macedonian myth. A dead man was thought to become a dragon, while dragons were believed to be the guardians of treasures in burial chambers.

Because the dragon was the natural enemy of man, his death became the ultimate goal, consequently there are innumberable battles between gods and dragons, saints and dragons, and in the medieval world, knights and dragons.

In Greek legends, the dragon fought on the side of the Titans and attacked Athene, who flung him into the heavens, where he became a constellation around the Pole Star.

Hercules encountered, and killed the dragon Ladon while fulfilling his eleventh labor.

In Scandinavian literature, Beowulf was slain by a dragon.


I have to wonder if dragons are linked to Draconians - supposed an alien race of Reptoids.

Is there a link to the reptilian part of our brains?

As with all winged beings - their appearance seems to be global - with varying mythos - yet all the same.

 
 
cusm
14:17 / 25.02.02
I generally suspect a link with the Dinosaurs, which actually works in the primordial titan/giant aspect of Dragon.

Oh, and I'm a Gold, by the way. But I already knew that
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
14:28 / 25.02.02
Did the dragon have wings?
 
 
Rev. Wright
18:48 / 25.02.02
A GOLD Dragon Lies Beneath!
I took the Inner Dragon online quiz and found out I am a Gold Dragon on the inside. My Inner Dragon is the most honorable of all. Golds are the third rarest of all the dragons (after Platinum and Chromatic dragons) and have a station in society that reflects their rarity. I am what one might call a Draconic Knight. Golds live by a strict code of chivalry and commitment. Remember Draco? Yep, Gold Dragon. My appearance is fearsome and all-mighty but I'd never stoop so low as to bring any harm to a human. I'm one of only two dragon types that are aligned "Lawful Good" and demonstrate great magical proficiency. My piety, beauty, wisdom, and inner strengrth are absolutely without parallel.

Of course, being a Gold Dragon isn't all high ethics and codes. I like to fly around scaring things, advise humans in their affairs, and shapeshift. Strike that, I LOVE to shapeshift. And I'm great at it. In fact, who's to say I'm not really a Gold Dragon after all? My favorable attributes are honor, truth, kindness, gold, wisdom, bravery, and trustworthiness. If anyone threatens or tries to kill me, I could strike back with my breath weapon - Fire. But then, no one's tried anything that stupid in the last couple thousand years. After all, I'm about 54 feet long.

HaHa Ha Ha HA hA HAHAHaHA ..... stop.

[ 25-02-2002: Message edited by: will it work wright? ]
 
 
pacha perplexa
08:18 / 28.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Nick:
Did the dragon have wings?


I have no idea. Is this important?

DT, thanks... I still have to buy that pocket dictionary of english.

Will, thanks a lot, dear! I mean... sir!
 
 
pacha perplexa
08:23 / 28.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Ed, the NOX boy:
Ana!!!!
Soh kiria dizer q to morrendo de saudade...
Teu blog faz uma faaaaaaalta...
E ai,vc ta aonde???

Mil bejus!!!!!!

.Ed



Oi, Eddie!!! Como vc ta, minino?

Eu to em Londres, acho que agora posso me considerar parte da 'london crew', hehe.

Tambem to com saudade.. Veja se manda um e-mailzinho de vez em quando, so para eu saber como vao as coisas, ta?

Beijos!
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
08:23 / 28.02.02
Wings can symbolise a lot of things. Earthbound creatures, for example, have fewer options for retreat.
 
 
gozer the destructor
12:00 / 01.03.02
quote: . I think 2001 was the Hare, but I'm not certain about that one.

it was the snake, it was my year, did quite well but i need to keep my head down this year, my girlfriend was born in the year of the horse though so it's not that bad

[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: gozer the destructor ]
 
 
Papess
12:09 / 01.03.02
quote:Originally posted by cusm:
I generally suspect a link with the Dinosaurs, which actually works in the primordial titan/giant aspect of Dragon.


Wow! I can hardly believe someone else has this theory!
I have believed this for a long time ever since I saw one sleeping in a mountian!
Thanks cusm! It is nice to know I am not that crazy.

hehehe

~May
 
 
pacha perplexa
10:54 / 10.04.02
Just to inform ya that today, 10th of april, I've just started to have my first period in 2 years.

Which means the thing on dragon/infertility versus horse/fertility actually WAS an indication that my subconsious decided to leave the traumas behind, triggering the hormones that were missing.

Yay!!!!!!!!
 
 
gozer the destructor
11:02 / 10.04.02
Cool, hope that means your feeling good...
 
 
pacha perplexa
11:22 / 10.04.02
*undescribable howl of deep female-power excitement*
 
 
enough
21:06 / 10.04.02
The funny part was...pacha was a man...
 
 
pacha perplexa
11:19 / 11.04.02
Ah, but my screamin'pacha comes from "pacha mama", who's the mother goddess on Universe and Earth (something like Gaia) in Inca mithology...
 
  
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