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Dhamma Dipa Vipassana meditation

 
 
Lord Switch
15:51 / 31.01.06
There are varying views of the program offered by this organisation

some people think they are a bit Cult-like, whilst others think that it is the best meditation-retreat they have been to. There are other, mostly Buddhist, forums discussing this, but I figured that the ´lithers would have refreshing viewpoints.
I haven´t been yet, but I was planning on going in a month or so

//Feel free to talk about this org in particular, but if you know what the method involves exactly, or if you are aware of a ´better´ buddhist monastery etc, then feel free to add that to the thread as well.
 
 
illmatic
16:22 / 31.01.06
As far as I am aware the method involves sitting. A lot.

I'd always quite fancied it myself. If you can spare the time, why not give it a go?

The only advice I'd offer is you could perhaps try and define your expectations and goals before you go, if only to see them disabused.

If I'm not mistaken, there's some documentaries about them leading meditation sessions in prisions, and it's positve effect on recidivism, addiction etc. Don't know how "impartial" these documentaries are though.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
16:35 / 31.01.06
ANd what, pray tell, is wrong with being 'a bit Cult-like'?
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
16:46 / 31.01.06
I've been considering a Vipassana retreat this year myself, as it goes.

What do you want to know? It is supposed to be the method of meditation the Buddha himself taught. It involves a very specific whole body concentration, not just breath. Beginning in the tips of the fingers of the left (I think) hand and following a specific route around the body, maintaining awareness without visualisation...you do it for hours, like all day, so if you are not an experienced meditator already it's preety much in at the deep end. It often leads to unearthing knots of consciousness and emotional memory storehouses from within the body (like cleansing) so be prepared.

On the retreats, there is no speaking with anyone except the tutors once inside. I believe fasting is expected after midday every day as well, so be prepared for that if you go, as well. My friend has been on a 10 day Vipassana course beofre, and found it to be a very useful and good Work indeed. I was speaking to him about it on Sunday, funny enough.
 
 
Lord Switch
19:03 / 31.01.06
There isn´t anything wrong with Cult-like, as such, except when The cult isn´t telling you that it is one

From the accounts I have read, there were some concerns about the way the technique is taught, involving the tape being used being __very__ repetitive and almost bordeing on light hypnotism techniques.

I woulnd´t now, I haven´t been yet. I know one person on barbelith who has been and he was the one who recommended it, but he also warned me that there is a slight tendency for brainwashing in the course...

Does anybody know of a other retreats one can attend in the UK? ie Buddhist monasteries etc?
 
 
BlueMeanie
21:14 / 31.01.06
I went to Samye Ling in Scotland last year, and it was one of the best experiences of my life. I was there for about 10 days with a bunch of friends for a week-long Guru Rinpoche puja. It was during this time that I really became a Buddhist, even though I'd taken refuge a couple of years before.

They do loads of stuff there, I unreservedly recommend them.
 
 
Eudaimonic.lvx
06:37 / 01.02.06
Well Lord Switch, I went on one last year and you know how free from neuroses I am....... :-/

This organisation... you get 10 days free accomodation, food and the opportunity to live like a monk. Up at 4am, bed at 9.30 pm, main meal at 11am, and only fruit after that until breakfast. You are expected to sit all the group meditations and do your own private meditation. This isnt an option, if you dont do it, they come and get you. (I was woken at 4.30am with someone standing over me telling me to get up). They take your car keys, wallet etc off you and lock them in a safe when you go in. You are also not allowed phones and reading/writing materials. The teaching themselves give you a chance to learn a calming meditation for the first three days, then the vipassana technique for the remainder. This is basically watching the arising and falling of sensations in the body. All the main teaching is done using audio and video of Goenka, the Burmese founder.

All in all it was a good experience for me. I got some time out and space to think, learned some self-discipline, and motivation; ie. how to keep my mind together and not go mad, or bow to their cultic techniques!

Concerns.. like any slightly cultic organisation, there is a degree of 'group think', and what bothers me (wearing a psychologist's hat) is that there seems to be no expertise there or willingness to deal with what comes up for people. For example I saw a couple of people who seemed to be having breakdowns and I think all they were told to do is 'keep meditating'. Leaving the retreat half way through seems to be strongly discouraged also. The teachings otherwise seemed to be pretty mainstream buddhist (although they make out it is non-sectarian) but the manner of delivery is somewhat hypnotic, ie everything repeated three times in a slow drawl. If anything it just pissed me off.

So I reckon as long as you are strong-willed/minded, and have been doing some serious meditation etc before, then its a good opportunity. For me at the time, I think the main advantage to it was that it is free, and I was hard-up. But if money no object then I would go to somewhere else, maybe Samye Ling - hear they are good
 
 
Leidan
20:18 / 14.07.06
This course was to me indescribably rich, intense and difficult. I went through varying understandings, feelings, reactions, and grew a great deal in certain directions.

There are many facets to what you go through here. I will limit this post to touching three of the main ones I percieve right now... I'm not sure the effect detailed description would have on someone willing to try the course; it may be most beneficial to simply go in with a strong determination and an open mind - thus the limitation, and if you feel attracted to the idea of the course already, I would simply go without reading further.

So, with the understanding that these facets are what I percieved, and could be argued to be inextricable from each other -

- The Discipline: On this course you're 'made', using a lightly externally enforced *self-discipline* (created by promises, the atmosphere, etc) to follow a pretty extreme daily schedule and discipline - of total silence, a 4am - 9.30pm waking/sleeping timetable, a diet of two meals per day, a ban on any recreation besides walking, and a stringent schedule of 10+ hours of meditation a day.

Following this discipline has many interesting and powerful effects - of a development in discipline, understanding things about yourself, insights brought about from an extreme change in situation and habit (the setup is monastic; to live the life of a monk after coming from the extremes of western society is a very strong jolt).


- The Technique: At the core of the course is a specific technique of meditation, which is very interesting, difficult, sophisticated, and apparently powerful. I think many members of Barbelith would consider it 'bodywork' - I won't go into the specific details of the technique, but it basically consists in hard training of the 'unconscious' not to react to the sensations of the body - i.e. to not react with aversion to pains, itches etc, and not to crave pleasant sensations. This training has many effects, including - apparently - great benefits to everyday life (stability, connection to the world, control, transcendence, etc), and, in my experience, a therapeutic ridding of many unconscious complexes and issues (this is quite a violent/painful process).

The other objective of the technique is to awaken the practitioner to the nature of the reality of hir body - i.e. to become aware of the subtlest level of reality (the molecular level or below).


The Religion: The course claims religious objectivity, a non-sectarianism. To a certain extent this is true, but at the same time it's quite clearly an offshoot of Buddhism. The technique is surrounded by its teachers
with an attachment to the philosophy and theory of Buddhism - they attach the technique, rightly or wrongly, to the Buddhist philosophy and path of life. This philosophy is taught very strongly on the course, and it's not really possible to escape it. This aspect can be very difficult to come to terms with, and could be percieved as the section closest to 'brain washing'; they teach a set of morals and beliefs as the 'true path' to 'real happiness'.


In all, a very intense, difficult experience. I would recommend to perhaps two sorts of people (I guess the features of these types could be combined to produce many sorts):

1), inexperienced people at a juncture in their lives, of doubt, depression, change, etc, who have a strong determination to see the course through for whatever reason.

2), people experienced in spiritual disciplines who want to extend their search and understanding of the spiritual / their body / enlightenment.
 
 
razorsmile
12:05 / 31.07.06
A friend on mine who I worked with on some majik was heavily into the Vipassana thang...she was very chilled and a bit of a space cadet, to be sure, but she was also into a submissive role SM and I always got the impression that the whole Vipassana thing was a little like an ongoing subspace, slightly dissociative and obsessive but very good on discipline...

mind you, she'd been doing a couple of retreats a year for three years or so and practised regularly at home herself too.
 
 
Doc Checkmate
13:23 / 31.07.06
Goenka's vipassana method may well be a valuable technique, but his organization does seem to misrepresent its product a bit. Goenka and his followers claim that their style of vipassana meditation is the technique that the historical Buddha practiced to attain enlightenment, the capstone in the spiritual practice that transformed him from a normal human into a buddha. This clashes in a big way with the teachings of the Buddhist scriptures.

According to the Sutta Satipatthana, one of the sacred writings of the Theravada school (to which Goenka adheres), the direct path to enlightenment is to practice mindfulness upon four classes of object. One of those classes is "feelings," meaning one's pleasant, unpleasant, and neutral reactions to different experiences. Another is "the body." Goenka's vipassana seems to touch on these two classes in a very incomplete way while completely ignoring the other two ("mind" and "mental objects"). The "four foundations of mindfulness" practice is complex, very involved, and in no way reducible to the "bodily sweep" method Goenka learned from his teacher, U Ba Khin. I find it hard to believe that the Buddha would bother running his monks through the hoops of the four foundations when he himself became completely enlightened by performing a watered-down practice on only two of them.

Again, this doesn't mean Goenka's technique isn't a useful one, even if it's not the holy golden key to enlightenment straight from the Buddha's back pocket. I mean, Rivers Cuomo worships Goenka like a god. If the man who wrote "Hash Pipe" and "Beverly Hills" likes it, it must be the shit.
 
  
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