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Underground > Games & Gameplay >

Blizzard bans GLBT-friendly guilds on WoW

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18:25 / 29.01.06

A player recruiting for a GLBT-friendly guild was cited for harassment. No guilds are permitted to mention anything pertaining to sexual orientation. Articles on the discussion board pertaining to this topic are peremptorily removed.

I created a separate thread for this because I didn't want it to necessarily hamstring the WoW love in the other one; people should be allowed their innocent fun, I suppose.

Article

There are a lot of queer WoW players who are going to be very angry about this.

12:53 / 30.01.06

Banning controversial subjects sounds quite sane to me.
The internet is full of places to go and "be" whatever you want. An online game is not the place. Religion, politics and sexuality are certain to cause tension, and have no relevance to the game.

I think a complete ban on such subjects is far more sensible than picking and choosing.

13:03 / 30.01.06

Yet they wouldn't try and ban the use of the word Gay as an insult because it's so widespread. It's they're game and they make the rules so they don't have to do anything, however they're going to lose customers over this. But being the biggest game on the market however means that they simply don't care as long as the money keeps rolling in.

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:24 / 30.01.06

Not only that, but they banned it in part because it would lead to other people reacting with homophic abuse, ignoring the presence of quite a lot of homophobic abuse already.

C. Elseware - out of interest, what do you think about alternative sexualities on the role-playing servers? Would you disalllow people from RPing gay characters?

Goodness Gracious Meme

16:41 / 30.01.06

An online game is not the place

Why not? I'd've thought an environment that lets you build a character who then goes on to interact with other characters without the limitations of the meatspace world was *exactly* the place to 'be who you want to be'?

Goodness Gracious Meme

16:42 / 30.01.06

Yet they wouldn't try and ban the use of the word Gay as an insult because it's so widespread

Good point. It's making homophobia the fault of its victims rather than its perpetrators.

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16:49 / 30.01.06

Yes, the world is SO full of places where it's perfectly okay to walk hand-in-hand with your partner or kiss him or her on the street. Homophobia is as dead as racism... oh, wait, that's not very dead at all, is it?

This is the same rhetoric used to defend keeping GSAs out of schools on the grounds that violent dickheads might target the gay and supportive straight students, as if violent dickheads aren't perfectly capable of locating people who look kinda queer to bash already.

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17:11 / 30.01.06

Oh, hell, I'm just very tired, ignore me.

Goodness Gracious Meme

17:15 / 30.01.06

Well, exactly.

(id's first post, not the second. I don't know if ze is tired or not.

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STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

17:50 / 30.01.06

Stonewall Champions and The Spreading Taint, two large gay guilds are currently formulating a letter they plan to submit to Blizzard requesting a more detailed explanation as to the intent of this reinterpretation and execution of the sexual harassment rule. As the spirit of the harassment rule seems to have been reinterpreted from protecting GLBT players, to keeping them silent.

I'm interested to see if this is actual policy, or misinterpretation of policy, on Blizzard's part. I'd hope it was the latter... I'll be following this one.

ONLY NICE THINGS

16:56 / 31.01.06

I think we'll probably never know. If Blizzard decide to rescind this, anyway - and they may well have to, unless they are prepared either to put in prohibitions against any form of reference to sexuality in the game - as it would be logical for them then to blame this on a lower-echelon administrator misunderstanding the rules.

of course, they may decide to respond by shutting down the Taint and Stonewall instead, and then start rigorously enforcing a code on gay-friendly guilds which ignores completely references to homosexuality in in-game discussion. It would damage their credibiltiy among gay gamers, but they may be prepared to take the hit, especially as they may cannily decide that far more teenage male gamers will be squicked out to the point of departing by the idea of sharing space with t3h gay.

Could one have GLBT-friendly servers, possibly? Like a Warcraft Barbelith, where calling somebody gay will result in a hefty fireballing by the PC gargoyles?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

17:39 / 31.01.06

Slightly off-topic, but that's something I've been pleasantly surprised by- in a month of (far closer than is healthy to) continuous playing, I've seen one reference to "**** takes it up the ass". Having been worried that the entire gaming internet was populated by homophobic teens, that's a better ratio than I was expecting.

I did, however, see someone run past who I think may have been called "Darkyhunter". Couldn't catch up to double-check, though, and haven't seen him since.

But they're the only two instances of offensive cockery I've seen so far. And one of those I'm not even sure about.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

19:21 / 31.01.06

As a Night Elf I find the name Darkyhunter to be offensive.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

19:40 / 31.01.06

See, that was the thing (if indeed that was his name...)- he was a night elf. 'Twas in Dolanaar that I espied the fellow.

Goodness Gracious Meme

22:31 / 31.01.06

may have been called "Darkyhunter".

Please, and I'm willing to be told... tell me there's a context for this beyond the one I'm thinking of.

Goodness Gracious Meme

22:32 / 31.01.06

And is there, if there is, a similar question to be asked about online worlds and language/stereotyping as the one I asked in the Temple?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

00:27 / 01.02.06

See, I don't know that there is another context. BUT, as I say, I may well have misread it- I saw the guy briefly, he was running past me... and there are also a lot of non-English speakers on that server, so that could have had something to do with it, though obviously I don't know what. I know how I read it... I also know that, as being new to this kind of thing and having been warned by people about the sort of people you meet in these things, I may have misread something like "Dark Hunter", or something equally as teen-goth, as something a lot nastier.

I've been keeping an eye out ever since, mind.

13:12 / 01.02.06

I think this is a really interesting problem. Obviously, people, both in the real and virtual worlds should be permitted to act and talk about pretty much what they want, within reason (do I really have to spell out the exceptions?). However, the online space caveat is trouble some, as that online space is owned by someone, in this case, Blizzard. If they don't want somebody saying something, then they are within their rights to stop it, if only because it's their server.

Still, I think Blizzard will recapitulate, if only from pressure from the community. Perhaps some kind of protest is in order? What if the GLBT peeps had a same-sex love-in, or got every gay and gay-friendly person possible to refer to themselves as homosexual, a lot. Or they could work really hard at the game and then become l33t, and go around in packs, kicking shit out of any homophobes that they see. Digital justice!! (<- taking t'piss btw, please don't jump on me for this)

Can I also play devil's advocate here and ask - why do GLBT peeps need to label themselves as such/band together in an online gaming environment? What is there to gain by this? Would you not play a game because you couldn't play with other people with which you can identify? I ask because a small part of me is aking why this matters. I mean, obviously, Blizzard shouldn't be discriminatory (which is wrong) towards gay people, but aside from fighting the discrimination (which is a worthy battle in itself) what's the bother? Why can't you just play with people you find you like, rather than making it to do with sexuality (or sex, or colour, or even tastes in pizza topping, who cares?).

I ask because I'm genuinely interested. If I've offended, I apologise in advance and would like to make myself clear that I'm really not trying to be homophobic/controversial here, I'm just interested on what others have to say.

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:54 / 01.02.06

Can I also play devil's advocate here and ask - why do GLBT peeps need to label themselves as such/band together in an online gaming environment?

Well, do you MMORP, John? If so, do you belong to a guild? If so, why do you belong to that particular guild?

16:11 / 01.02.06

To be honest, I'm more of a deathmatch fan (been in Clans though, usually just look for good players/nice atmosphere), and in the MMOs I've played like Second Life or Anarchy Online I'm usually a free agent, or I team with people for specific tasks, but not for hanging out. I'm a loner I guess.

I've played WoW, but after seeing my friends' social lives and spheres of conversation reduce to next to nil, I decided to skip that one. better to shoot people in the face, IMO. Does this disqualify me from asking questions about this topic then? I've given my opinion - that I disagree with Blizzard, but can see where they're coming from (even misguided as it is), but have a small "so what?" lingering afterwards (only small mind, and I'm sure a gay gamer could clear it up for me/contribute to the discussion).

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

16:40 / 01.02.06

Not a member of a Guild myself, but from what I can gather in many cases, what with party chat and the like, many people also tend to use the "behind the scenes" bits of MMORPGs to an extent as a chatroom or bulletin board once they've met like-minded individuals- they're not always talking to each other as elves or whatever, but as the players.

As such, I'd say they'd rather be in a Guild with people who share their interests- and by extension, would like this to be a "safe space".

That's part of it, I guess.

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17:52 / 01.02.06

I'm not a MMORPG person because I don't enjoy playing with people who are virtual playground bullies; I'd like to play with people who stick imaginary swords in imaginary monsters like adults, dammit. I certainly wouldn't want to be in a guild where my guildmates throw around homophobic language-- and it's hard to get away from in an environment like WoW. Without the ability to find such guilds easily, I would only be inclined to play with people I already know, which would obviate much of the benefit of MMORPGs, IMO.

(Incidentally, I hope it's clear that my exasperation with myself in my last post had to do with my misreading of Elsewhere's post and my subsequent idiotlookingness, rather than being directed at anything anyone else was saying.)

18:25 / 01.02.06

Stoatie - so then, is there any real need for gay Guilds to openly declare themselves as such? I mean, there's nothing to stop a group of likeminded people, who just happen to be GLBT starting a guild, is there? I'm sure your average 15-year old homophobic kid is going to want to join the guild anyway, and those that do will either learn to watch their language or feel what it's like to be in a persecuted minority.

Although, this is rather side-stepping the problem, and Blizzard should just apologise and allow GLBT leaning guilds to go about their business.

On a side note, does anybody know what kind of gay gaming scene there is? I've never come across any stories about it in the media. Aside from guilds or clans made up of GLBT players (of which are there a few, I'm sure), is/why is sexuality an issue in gaming?

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18:58 / 01.02.06

Aside from the fact that it needs to be easy for people who want a welcoming environment to find it, otherwise they will leave the game altogether, pressuring gay people not to be visible about their sexuality reinforces homophobia, always. Even if it's well-intentioned and "for their own protection." An environment in which heterosexuality is the only visible kind of sexuality is oppressive. And of course heterosexuality is visible. It's assumed to be the default. No one makes a big deal about heterosexuals "advertising" their sexuality in game in their character names, in in-character relationships and interactions, etc. An environment where that is the only kind of sexuality allowed to be visible constantly reinforces that gay people are unwelcome, and continuously reinforces the stigma from which all GLBT people suffer to some degree.

There are plenty of gay gamers, and actually loads of trans gamers, perhaps because virtual worlds allow one to be who one wants to be with greater ease. Heteros aren't the only ones playing MMORPGs by any stretch of the imagination. And it's an issue in gaming because it's an issue everywhere, and virtual worlds are not an exception just because they're for entertainment.

ONLY NICE THINGS

22:04 / 01.02.06

Does this disqualify me from asking questions about this topic then?

Absolutely not. My question was just to see what you looked for in a guild - as mentioned above, a lot of people don't observe a strict distinction between RP and RL, and as such a space for gay gamers, which gay gamers can find and join, would be useful.

09:45 / 02.02.06

Blizzard have fucked up that much is obvious people look for guilds for various reason, same class type, same country but I just wanted to add that I’ve also never really seen a problem with “gay” being used as an insult after around maybe 9 months of playing I’ve seen it used maybe once or twice (your sword is gay) which considering the amount of players is very low. Of course things might be different in the US version of the game but there’s seem to be an impression that the game is full of homophobic teens or playground bullies where I’ve found that the opposite is true.

As for guilds they are just a way to find interesting people to quest with, the guild I’m a member of has around 140 members but the guild chat is usually game based, there’s a bit of overlap with the real world but mostly it’s people helping each other out with quests and giving advice and arrange the high level raids/quests etc….

Just trying to say that it’s not quite as evil as some people might be thinking.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

15:05 / 03.02.06

the level of "hate speech" (I despise that term by the way, but its the only one I can come up with for the example) is pretty dependant on the server you play I think.

On the RP servers you see very little.

On the "normal" servers you get a bit, but it seems to be the more "casual" uses, IE 'that armor looks gay lolz'

On the pvp servers it gets ugly. "faggot Horde" this and that. I play on Kel'Thuzad, an open pvp server, but one of the older ones. Generally if people start mouthing off in public chat they get slapped down pretty quickly.

I saw a lot more of this sort of thing (and a lot less done by the gamers to shut people up) in games like CS and Halo then I have in WoW though.

16:57 / 03.02.06

Faggot horde? Faggot Horde?

Have you *seen* the way those Gnomes dance!?

Ahem. Sorry.

I think the only reaction to this is to bring back the handkerchief code, except with some wicked [HANDKERCHIEF]-type trinket

17:52 / 03.02.06

Just noticed the thing about 'Darkyhunter'. If I'm not mistaken this user was mentioned in a Something Awful article showcasing ways to be 'polite' in WoW and the contastingly amusing ways of being a total prick with the Darkyhunter character being lined up against another one with an innocuous name. Whether Darkyhunter was created specifically for the purpose of the article or the writer just screenshotted him/her/it to use I don't know for sure though. Actually, I could do more justice to this if I went and hunted out the link couldn't I? Um, right, I'll go do that shall I?

17:55 / 03.02.06

Bugger, I'm totally wrong here. Apologies for posting without checking folks.

22:10 / 04.02.06

(continued, from above. Thanks to the gods of stealing-internet-access-at-Mom's-while-you-wait-for-yours-to-arrive-tomorrow)

... that marks the GLBT 'toon. Or maybe the code of which ear you wear your trinket in. Or, you know... if you wear your leggings a little tight. If Leather were still semantically loaded, though... well, then they'd have to ban pretty much all the hunters and the thieves. And, well, the less said about the Night Elves the better.

Ok, seriously. This just doesn't feel right - GLBT-friendliness is a reference to sexuality in some sense, but it's also a reference to a sociopolitical cause. I'm sure an Eco-Friendly guild would be welcomed with open arms. And while the solution of 'Make the guild's GLBT-friendliness obvious on the guild website, and don't advertise it openly' would work, it would also sort of... I dunno. Endorse the policy.

Short of a boycott, what kind of steps should be taken to try to coax Blizzard out of this sudden outbreak of wrongheadedness? Online protests? Strange happenings halfway between sit-ins and raid parties?

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

14:47 / 08.02.06

Blizzard apologizes

15:28 / 08.02.06

Good move by Blizzard

But reading through the pages of the linked forum I might have to take back my comments about Wow being relatively GLBT friendly.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

16:03 / 08.02.06

Depressingly, I agree- although I will add the proviso that (only having starting reading the fora recently) there seem to be a lot more dicks posting *as dicks* than players acting like dicks ingame. In my experience, anyway. I've seen little of such dickery in Khadgar, but an awful lot (not just offensive anti-gay etc dickery, the whole spectrum of people being cocks) on the boards.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

20:53 / 08.02.06

In any MMO you are always better off finding a non official board to post to. The problem with the official boards is everyone knows they need to do something specific to be banned, because Blizzard doesn't have a policy against general cockery, only specific cockery.

Non-official boards can ban you just for being an asshole, so the cooler people usually end up there. Unfortunately I haven't found a very active WoW board other then the main.

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