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Debate Tactic Nomenclature

 
 
CameronStewart
17:30 / 23.01.06
Is there a particular term for the act of stating a possible negative about someone, but then negating or contradicting it immediately afterward, in order to firmly plant the suggestion while avoiding responsibility?

e.g. "John could be an abusive drunk who hates women, but I doubt it."
 
 
sleazenation
17:46 / 23.01.06
An insinuation? and/or innuendo?
 
 
Seth
17:54 / 23.01.06
Is passive/aggressive the right term?
 
 
Hieronymus
18:00 / 23.01.06
The strawman technique?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:07 / 23.01.06
It's a form of apophasis, I believe. Apophasis (literally, "speaking away from"), or in Latin praeteritio (going besides) is the device of identifiying something about which you will not talk, thus:

"It is not relevant to this court's consideration that the plaintiff is a wife-beater, a drunk, a liar, a cad and a regular player of the pink oboe."

The form you're using there is a kind of aporia, also. Aporia ("resourcelessness") is the act of confessing ignorance of something or an inability to reach a conclusion. You can use it perfectly innocently, to tie off a discussion point you don't want or have time to get into, or to identify something you are not sure of, but it can also be used to distance yourself from an accusation or insinuation - just like apophasis, where you don't have to look like you're throwing mud - "Is he a fraud? I couldn't tell you. Is a man who takes money from the pockets and food from the plates of the people who love him and gives nothing back a fraud? That's too big a question for me". You don't have to have your finger on the trigger. Or, for example:

"Whether he raped them then killed them, or killed them then raped them... well, gosh, I just don't know. But I do know that he was found in the hut with the bodies."

Here, two possible and groteaque activities are suggested, and while ignorance of which is true is admitted, the possibility of another explanation is precluded.

These are insinuations and innuendi, also, of course, and they might well be passive-agressive. They are not straw men - that's rather different.
 
 
CameronStewart
18:13 / 23.01.06
I knew Haus would be the guy for this.

Thanks all!
 
 
Alex's Grandma
19:24 / 23.01.06
Does GM know that you're still speaking to him, though? This could potentially be quite hazardous...
 
 
CameronStewart
20:08 / 23.01.06
Huh?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:05 / 23.01.06
Oh, hush, Alex, you stirrer.
 
 
CameronStewart
22:38 / 23.01.06
Seriously, what did that mean?
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
01:55 / 24.01.06
It is called Standard Operating Procedure at Fox News.

OK, SOME PEOPLE say it is standard operating procedure at Fox News.
 
 
grant
02:17 / 24.01.06
Cameron might try looking in the first All Star Superman thread (now locked) to see the first tentative tendrils of new love entwining betwixt Barbelith's Favorite Word Experts. Or he might not.

Is "For Brutus is an honourable man" an apophasis?
 
 
CameronStewart
03:34 / 24.01.06
Oh I see, its an Alex/Haus thing. I thought it was something to do with me, which confused me.
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:35 / 24.01.06
I still maintain it was a Mark Millar/Haus thing. I'll get the evidence one of these days.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:32 / 24.01.06
Grant - no. Apophasis denies or rejects things. "For Brutus is an honourable man" is a bit of a tricky one. Basically, it's just irony. Arguably, the couplet:

Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;
And Brutus is an honourable man.


Is a dirimens copulatio - a provision of balancing information a proposition - but clearly one with ironic intent. "Honourable" is possibly antiphrasis - a desciptive term one use of which is clearly ironic from context - but, being Shakespeare, it's a bit trickier, because M.A. is not just saying that Brutus is dishonourable...

Shakey being difficult, basically.

There are some good guides to this sort of thing on the Interweb - Google is definitely yoru chum.
 
 
Supaglue
20:07 / 24.01.06
Isn't the pretence of passing over a subject, when really doing the opposite and raising it, a proslepsis?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:59 / 24.01.06
That's right, Supaglue - proslepsis means "taking towards" or "adding" - it is the act of describing a situation or allegation in the guise of passing over it. Apophasis is denyoing that something is relevant, while drawing attention to it - in this case the idea that John is a drunk, which is dismissed (if weakly). A prosleptic reworking might be "I don't think we need to take up time discussing John's problems with alcohol, nor his hatred of women". They're functionally quite similar.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
05:56 / 25.01.06
And then there's Tom's favourite word.
 
 
Supaglue
07:56 / 25.01.06
Right, cheers Haus. Actually, while we're here, can you tell us the difference between those and a cataphasis? It all gets very confusing...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:42 / 25.01.06
Not really: I understand functionally that there is some sort of distinction in which prosleptic utterances claim to be passing over an assertion while describing it fully, whereas paralipsis (of which the negative form is cataphasis?) claims not to be mentioning an assertion while mentioning it, but I've never been able to tell them apart. I tend to call anything of that ilk preterition, which is I think technically wrong but a lot easier than trying to sort out the Greek.
 
  
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