BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Hostel (SPOILERS)

 
 
Tits win
21:35 / 06.01.06
Haven't seen it, and don't want to, because I can't stomach torture scenes, which is why I haven't seen Saw either.

But I AM curious as to what violence you see. And it intriuges me that Tarantino is executive producing. Well, not really, but his name always attracts...

Anyone seen it in the States yet? Harry Knowles really likes it. And by all accounts it's a smart and relevant film. Which probably makes it all the more of a pity that they've marketed it as the 'sickest film EVAR!!!!!!11!!! (TM)' 'cause now I won't make the effort. Unless someone, you know, handcuffs me to a chair and forces me to watch it.
 
 
matthew.
03:02 / 07.01.06
I have the hugest crush on Eli Roth. Cabin Fever is one of my fav horror movies evah. I'm going to see this next week, even though it's out today in my city.
 
 
Math is for suckers!
05:09 / 07.01.06
I saw it tonight and loved it thoroughly. Eli Roth has a knack for really building up to his scenes of violence, in ways that had me really sitting on the edge of my seat, just waiting to see if the final, actual act of torture, violence, whatever, would actually be shown. His build up makes me so tense I actually found myself sweating towards the end. And yes, its very graphic, so if you've got a weak stomach you should probably skip it. But I'm sure you probably already knew that. What I found most interesting was the crowd. When I went to see Cabin Fever opening night there was barely anyone in the theater, but tonight the movie was sold out, which makes me wonder just how much putting Quentin Tarantino's name on it affected it. I wonder this mostly because many of the people there, and yes I realize I'm sterotyping here, were not what I would consider fans of the genre. Is "extreme" horror, or at least the western definition of it(I'm thinking of Miike in particular) going to experience a boom like the relatively tamer J-horror (Ring, Ju-On) did? But thats kind of a tangent. If you go see it see if you can spot the 2 cameos. One is quick but the other is pretty obvious.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
15:37 / 07.01.06
SPOILER:

Could you possibly mean the Takashi Miike cameo?


I too love Eli Roth. One of my friends here in Atlanta is good friends with Eli and Harry Knowles--which makes me no end of jealous, though I am thankful that it was her influence that has allowed me to be hang out with Nathan Fillion one wonderful evening--so I am eager to see it. I too am going to see it next week with my friend Eric (aka Bunny) so that we may enjoy the gore to our hearts' content.

As for Cabin Fever, I really need to give that another go. It was the leg-shaving scene that made me stand up and yell, "That's so wrong, you bastard! Hitting us girls where we live!!!"
 
 
Neville Barker
01:38 / 10.01.06
SPOILER





expected something truely original and disturbing...received neither.
Sure there were some tense, hard to watch moments but only those where there was well drawn out anticipation (which Roth did do well). However, this was a three-act, formulaic now-a-days hollywood horror movie the same as ring, grudge, wax, etc. I really expected a new form of narrative...something that didnt unfold with all the cliche one-person-in-the-group-disappears-at-a-time, we're treated to a glimpse of violence and then the others meander around trying to figure out where their friend(s) has gone until the next scene unfolds in the same way until the one who is to survive takes center stage, endears a bit of hell but triumphs in the end. And seriously, with all the neat little devices firmly in place like SPOILER


Pax (an appropriately gen next sounding monicker) telling the goober the story about the screams of the drowning girls mother haunting him with guilt over what he 'could have done to save her' and then the critical moment where another girl's screams make him relive the event until he finally decides to take new action and vindicate his previous guilt with present tense heroics.
Of course the gore was pretty good (although the hype had me almost afraid of what I might see. Alas though, more tits in this one then gore), the tension was well-crafted at moments and there were some genuinely satisfying moments (like when the Heaven's apparently align for ol' Pax and he finds the three people directly responsible for his situation directly in front of his car, but those satisfactions are merely enjoyed within the confines of the generic story. If You go to a park and its a shitty park but they have a couple of cool rides why not enjoy whats there, then leave and vow not to return and warn others from wasting their time. Well, it might not be a total waste of time, but close.
LOVED Cabin Fever though. How do You get those legs so silky smooth?
sorry for the rant, but this was a REAL disappointment, not something I saw looking to pick it apart (usually I dont see those until their on video and I can smoke cough syrup with friends and enjoy the laughs inherent.
 
 
eddie thirteen
06:01 / 15.01.06
I don't think I could disagree more, although it's not a perfect film by any means. It's late as hell here and I've just come off both Hostel and a very intense, long conversation about Hostel immediately following, so I'll come back to this later -- but I will say I think it's doing the film a serious injustice to judge it on the basis of its formulaic plot (especially given that the plot's not all that formulaic). Worrying about its structure is kinda missing the point. Roth has made a movie that's much more mature than it appears to be at first glance, a movie that asks questions about America's imperialist view of the rest of the world and man's capacity for treating man in a less-than-humane fashion, and to me the result is a horror-film-as-sociopolitical-allegory that's up there with the best of Romero (and it's a damnsight better than Land of the Dead). The latest wave of horror films (TCM, House of 1000 Corpses, etc.) apes the hell out of '70s horror, but only seems to get the gore right -- Hostel is the first of this new breed that is actually striving for the social relevance of the best of those films. (It may stand alone for some time, too, since the trailers that ran before it here consisted of two remakes [The Hills Have Eyes and When a Stranger Calls], one sequel [Final Destination 3 -- no comment], and one retarded looking thing that appears to star a very fat evil man who chases people with a big chain.)
 
 
netbanshee
18:12 / 15.01.06
I saw Hostel a few days ago and went in completely uninformed while tagging along with some friends. Heard some business about Tarantino being attached to it and it was probably a gore flick since there was mention of torture. All said, I wasn't that impressed.

It just seemed to be a pickup of stereotypical elements from pop culture and established horror concepts. Somewhere between simple, toned-down versions of Odishon, Hellraiser and Jacob's Ladder with a College-bound comedy and a Maxim magazine article. Needless physical wounds and gore, stupid young American boys running about insulting locals and girls looking to seduce the main characters. It felt unconnected too, as if it the scenes only lived on their own and couldn't maintain my involvement.

I did like bits of it here and there. I found most gross-out moments funny but well done visually. There were also some areas of substance.

SPOILERS



I kinda got my hopes up when Paxton was getting hauled by the two bodyguards and becoming witness to other people being tortured. The way the camera was handled and the activities in the room worked well. Another element that grounded the violence was the shameless use of vomiting, pointing to the ferocity of the situation. Prior to Devil's Rejects, I believe I hadn't seen that used in a bit. One would have to mention the "help" Paxton gives to the Japanese girl too.



END OF SPOILERS

So, like in most horror films, there are those moments that step up and are entertaining or clever. I just couldn't get into it in this particular case. To be fair, I've recently been spoiled by the likes of Rear Window, Jacob's Ladder and Oldboy, so my expectations on horror might be a bit high at the moment.
 
 
eddie thirteen
19:52 / 15.01.06
Well, that last I can sympathize with -- I think much of what impressed me about Hostel was its standing relative to most other contemporary American horror films, and I'm not sure I'd have been as impressed with it had it been, say, Japanese. American horror has been in a pretty sorry state for quite some time, and while it has come a long way toward recapturing its former glory in this decade, there's still way too much hackwork. I don't think Hostel is a hacky film by any means, and Roth is miles ahead of Masters of Schlock like Rob Zombie (who, admittedly, might be capable of making a good movie if someone else were to write a script for him), but...no, he's no Takashi Miike, either, and probably never will be.

I think, though, that it's way too simplistic to dismiss Hostel as being akin to a live-action Maxim spread or what have you...there's no question that the film's first half hour is titillating, and is meant to titillate, but I'd argue that Roth means for us to question the "sympathetic" characters and their motives in the gooshy part of the film, and that this would be impossible had we not first been kids in a candy store right along with them. (Granted, this is a reaction that Roth could likely only get out of men, and maybe even then only slightly immature ones, which is a group that for better or worse probably includes myself -- I think most female viewers are likely to find the doggish leads wholly unsympathetic right from the start, and only sympathetic -- if ever -- when they suffer.)

Now it is possible that I'm giving Roth too much credit, and he really was just putting as much t&a in the film as he possibly could for reasons strictly puerile. That isn't what I got out of it, though. I felt that Roth was drawing a parallel between the protagonists and their tormentors -- both are benefitting from the "perks" of a place where poverty has made life cheap. The protagonists are there in search of easy sex, and the antagonists are there in search of the opportunity to murder without consequences, but both groups are there to exploit people who have been made easy prey by socioeconomic circumstances.

SPOILERS

For those who are really hung up on the idea of Hostel as typical genre piece, I'd suggest you look at the ways in which it subverts the cliche template: significantly, the most sympathetic character (the one who doesn't exploit anybody, and whom the film leads to think will be the main character; a sensitive soul who is basically the gender-bending equivalent of the Last Girl) buys it halfway through, and we're left by process of elimination to identify with an amoral horndog who just might deserve the situation in which he has found himself. After whoring his way across Europe, the line "I got a lot of money for you, and now you are my bitch" sounds a lot like the chickens coming home to roost. If we'd as soon not see him be tortured to death, it's more due to our own squeamishness than to any real sympathy he's generated thus far. He's more than a little like his tormentor, who would as soon not be reminded that the person he's hurting is, you know, a person (witness how uncomfortable he gets from the instant he sees the two women from the hostel in natural light, sans makeup, no longer flirtatiously bubbleheaded but suddenly displaying intelligence and more than a bit of dislike -- they're malevolent, but they also seem much more recognizably human than the centerfold-fantasies-come-to-life they've been thus far). I'm not sure Roth entirely succeeds in making him heroic when he goes back for the screaming woman (the drowning girl story is just a little too pat, and Roth has succeeded a little too well in making the torture chamber a place no sane person would venture into willingly, no matter how much he thought he'd be haunted by a failure to act later), but there is at least an effort toward creating an arc wherein the character goes from shitbaggish exploiter of women to empathetic human being willing to put himself on the line for the sake of one...a much more sophisticated idea than a person who's "good" from the start finally showing what a decent person he is when the chips are down.
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
14:21 / 27.03.06
SPOILERS

Not sure if I can agree with you there eddie. Pax is pretty much a nice guy character as well as the other american. I don't know if any of them really were nice guys, but even though they slept with prostitutes and girls they meet in bars, did they deserve to be tortured to death? And the change that takes place in Pax is very interesting - from a slightly ineffectual hero to a savage killer. The fact he kills the people who set him and his friends up is pretty much standard for hollywood, but the killing of the surgeon character in the toilet, hell thats very brutal for hollywood. The guy wasn't even armed, like standard.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
19:19 / 27.03.06
Just got back from seeing this (and, alas, going to the pub afterwards, which means I'm a bit too fucked right now to make TOO much sense, but I will come back to it)...

I think I said in another thread somewhere that I love that people are now making horror movies that are SUPPOSED to be horrible, rather than teen movies with killing in. This kind of straddled the divide- the first half was basically Porky's, but it carried through on my unspoken wish on watching that movie as a kid, which was "why doesn't someone lock these fuckers up and torture them to death?"

Hmm. I have a soft spot for Roth, ever since he was featured in The Independent's weekly "best film scene ever" column and, whereas everyone else was choosing the airport scene in Casablanca or the steps in Battleship Potemkin, he went for the underwater zombie/shark fight from Zombie Flesh Eaters.

If Cabin Fever's anything to go by, I'll need to watch this again to actually have an opinion on it (CF- first time, "that was bollocks"- watched it again, and now I love it. Probably for all the wrong reasons, but still...)

Thus far, slightly disappointed, but not to the extent that I feel I wasted my money.

I should probably start a "horror movies need to be horrible" campaign.

And the bit with the eye? That was BETTER than the legendary eye bit in ZFE.

My God, I'm drunk.
 
 
matthew.
23:31 / 02.04.06
Just saw it. I think I can safely refrain from writing "Spoiler" and some paragraph breaks.

I was... somewhat disappointed. I heard that there was gallons and gallons of blood, and there is... but....

If I could compare this to another flick I was disappointed in, it would be Audition. Yeah, I know, I know. Blasphemer. I know. But I was expecting Audition to go all out, to never stop. And it just... didn't. I loved the bit with the bag in Audition (no spoilers), to say the least.

My expectations were set fairly high. I love Eli Roth; I think he's funny, smary, charming, etc. Cabin Fever was deliciously funny and remains one of my favourite horror flicks. So, I expected Roth to rock my socks off.

And he did in the end. As soon as Pax escapes, I was loving every minute of Hostel. Unfortunately, there's the other bits at the beginning that bore me. Tits? Check. Drugs? Check. Back story for main character? Check. Creepy man at beginning of second act? Check. It has all the horror tropes and a "Hollywood" screenplay. I gather that this flaw is a product of Tarantino's input on the script. According to IMDB (Or Wikipedia, I forget), Tarantino had a major hand in the shooting script and the editing process. Perhaps he "Hollywood"-ed it up for us.

The eye bit. Wow. I almost had to look away. That was one of the most successful gross-out bits I have ever seen. I consider myself jaded and cynical, but that scene made me feel like a kid again. Roth has real skill building up tension: escapes once, goes back, escapes again but with "baggage" thus making it harder. Each time the tension ratchets up.

Thanks to the satellite behind the moon that this movie was not horribly marred by a twist ending, like Haute Tension.

So otherwise, decent gore flick, unfortunate three-act structure. Let's see what Hostel 2 gives us. I think Roth deserves the benefit of my doubt.
 
 
eddie thirteen
23:32 / 03.04.06
I don't know that Tarantino is the most traditional Hollywood writer...like...at all...but I would guess his input has a lot to do with why there are so many in-jokey riffs on other movies (nerdy-nice English major guy gets his achilles tendons slit just like the guy in Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance; 'Kana' is the name of the blown-out-eyeball Japanese schoolgirl zombie who's the poster girl for Stacy; and of course Pax's vehicular homicide manuever on his tormentors is pretty much lifted straight from Butch running into Marsellus Wallace in Pulp Fiction; plus probably other stuff even I'm not dorky enough to notice).
 
 
matthew.
01:56 / 04.04.06
I find myself at odds with my assessment of Tarantino's supposed (by me) Hollywood-ish input on the script, because of his tendency to avoid linear story-telling or conventional story-telling techniques.

I do have to say that Kill Bill Vol 1 follows an extremely traditional three-act screenplay, even if the chronology is fucked. He probably did not write the screenplay in chronological format, but twisted the times to spice it up. Otherwise, Kill Bill Volume One is rather Hollywood-ish in structure.
 
 
matthew.
01:58 / 04.04.06
(nerdy-nice English major guy gets his achilles tendons slit just like the guy in Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance

Or like Buck's sliced ankle in Kill Bill.
 
 
This Sunday
02:31 / 04.04.06
Dunno that ankle vs sharp-thing can be necessarily pinned as an homage/reference, though. Otherwise, all those would owe something to the pencil in the ankle from 'Evil Dead'. And 'Eko Eko Azarak II's ear-slicing would be a visual ref to a certain famous artist who did nice flowers.
Unless the shot's lined up very similar or something, I tend to write these little things off as unintentional - or, at least, unconsciously done.
 
 
eddie thirteen
13:21 / 07.04.06
I'd have to sit down with discs of Hostel and Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance to know for certain (which will never, ever happen, because I hated the latter so much bile is rising into my mouth even now), but I think the ankle-slashing shots are pretty close. It could be a coincedence, but I kinda doubt it, given Tarantino's history with such things and Roth's conscious intent to make an American version of an extreme Asian horror film.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
13:52 / 07.04.06
Aren't you all overstating Tarantino's influence? He only stuck his name to it, much like Wes Craven did with the abominable 'Wishmaster'.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:05 / 07.04.06
Yeah, I figured he just gave Roth the money.

See Roth's not only working on Hostel 2, but he's gonna make King's Cell?

I could imagine that working quite well, being the grand guignol "zombie" epic it is. It also fits in neatly with (well, to be honest, provides most of the basis of) a friend's theory that Roth's working his way through horror genres. Zombies it is!
 
 
matthew.
14:43 / 07.04.06
From Wikipedia/IMDB:
Although he is only listed as an Executive Producer, Quentin Tarantino has been quoted as having worked on both the screenplay and the editing for the film. From an interview with Eli Roth: "I sat down and did another draft...and I showed it to Quentin, and he was like, 'This is awesome. Let’s go through it.' And we went through the script... And he’s like, 'You know, I’d love to be involved in this,' and I’m like, 'Yeah, it’d be so fun.' So he was just great. So we shot in Prague while he was doing a 'CSI' episode, but he was really helpful in the editing room... Quentin came in the editing room and said, 'Well, what do you think of this, maybe, you know I think you can cut this. You know, I think this is a good scare, but what if you added some this to that?' He helped us trim it down."
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
18:03 / 04.05.06
fuckya, tarantino.

well, I watched this only yesterday [it's doing some great business here too]. you guys pretty much left nothing for me to talk about. some stupid impressions, then. =P

a friend of mine who's into body modification and suspension [google it] couldn't stand it and left - although she came back later, missing the whole eyeball scene. eli roth is a stupid kid, for better and worse, having fun in the candy shop, mostly like the protagonists. good thing he's a gult-ridden american boy, right? ;-)

the socio-economic angle of the subtext is very interesting, it permeated the movie from the start [it's fun to read at imdb's message board people asking if you can smoke pot like that in Amsterdan and wether Eslovakia really exists; more or less confirms the point of the movie]. man as predator of man... wasn't it human flesh the surgeon guy was eating with his sallad? an eyebrow raised when we're shown that most cosmopolitan guy there was the only one with slightly more chances to survive in this Meathook Future[tm] world.

when he talked in German to the over-anxious bald guy with the chainsaw [best performance amongst a wave of overacting youngs] about how he would regret killing another person for the rest of his life, forcing the guy to ask for a gag ball, maybe he softened the fucker a bit. at least it provoked the much needed vomit puddle.

the nudity thing was due to all the cool reasons you guys talked about [fuck, you dissected the whole thing] and: all good B movies of yore had their share of tits and ass. was it me or the girls looked kind of junky too, doing that baiting job to sustain their fixes? that was kinda cool; the refference bits to other movies? not so much. oh, tarantino, you movie sampler, you...

a couple of would-be "goofs" of sorts [goofy enough to justify the Miike homage cameo, maybe], but these sort of lifted my suspension of disbelief for a while: paxton losing his fingers and the girl losing her eye.

with all the Realism in the flick, the guy was pretty cool after losing his pointers and some blood; no matter his survival stincts kicked in, all of a sudden he's jack bauer when I suppose the regular person would faint after the shock... and if did kana had her face all messed-up by a blowtorch, wouldn't it be all darkened? and herself even in MORE shock and pain than pax?

HOSTEL 2 - and possibly 3 - has a lot of material to develop, luckily for them; I'm pretty sure the surgeon guy was merely a client, so this underground net of death brothel goers still have to show their main organizers. may give 8 MM a run for its money.
 
 
ibis the being
17:35 / 15.05.06
I just watched this over the weekend and was really disappointed. I'm having a really hard time remembering whether I had already heard the plot of the movie ahead of time or whether it was just really predictable... but about halfway through I knew exactly what was going on and basically how it was going to play out. I love a good scary horror movie that's creepy and suspenseful but this was not that. It wasn't ever suspenseful for me for even a moment, unless you count gritting your teeth against impending gross-outs as suspense, which I do not. I hate horror movies that mistake mere gore for horror... without any psychological tension it's just a bunch of icky makeup, and that's all I got out of this. (And I liked Cabin Fever much much better.)

SPOILERS


I would love to buy into the idea that this was some kind of commentary on American xenophobia & chauvinism and/or the international sex trade, but that was in there SO superficially. There was not the slightest inquiry into why the patrons of Elite Hunting were there - and if we're supposed to believe that it's a simple, linear progression from casual sex to using prostitutes to BDSM to torture - which seems to be strongly implied - I think that's a really naive, moralistic (urban legend style) logic.

And I almost groaned out loud when Pax rushed back into the torture chambers to save a screaming girl. No human being, no matter how altruistic, would ever run back into such a place, having just barely escaped, with two fingers missing... please. It was absurd.
 
 
matthew.
17:11 / 09.06.06
[Eli Roth] told [Chud.com] his plans for the sequel to Hostel: “This time I want to try to get some nudity and violence in there,” he said.
...
Hostel 2 will be about three girls who get caught up in the nasty world of human hunting. But don’t worry – maimed and newly murderous Paxton will be back as well.


I'm sort of excited.... I still love Eli Roth, but I'm worried that it will suck and be too self-important. Why won't people just make an over-the-top horror film that doesn't bother trying to be something it's not? Oh wait, it was called Final Destination 3 and it didn't even care about logic or physics or naming its characters! That's badass.
 
 
This Sunday
20:14 / 09.06.06
Why can't a horror movie be made that doesn't back away? I'm really annoyed every single time someone puts out their 'unflinching' film and then admits they chickened out somewhere along the line. If a kid is positioned for torture, they're tortured. If there's a zombie baby about to be born, it damned well better fuck somebody up. Telegraphing INCREDIBLY MEAN THING X, means X better happen. No more zero-threat horror movies! No. You're psychokiller isn't weepy and traumatised and pathetic so we can identify with them... every one of them, from Leatherface to 'Blue Velvet''s Frank, is bad, evil, vicious, and otherwise not right in the head and they can do bad things to you. If you're watching a spam in a cabin flick and Jerry X, Force of Teh EVIL, stops the slaughter to kneel down and have a cry, Mr. X must be more horrific for it. It's crocodile tears, or severe disconnect. It's the 'Cape Fear' bully/bullied trick, not... I'm not alone, in this, right?

'Mommy Dearest' or 'VeggieTales' should not be more horrifying and daring than anyone horror movie starting rihgt now. If you're not going to follow through, don't bring the subject up, don't lead into the area, don't suggest it early in the scene... and if you do, and you get cowardly, don't call it an 'unflinching' intense blah blah blah...

It's like making a love story where the actual love is sidestepped because it would be too passionate or emotional to put onscreen.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:19 / 09.06.06
Rob Zombie will save us all, Daytripper. I firmly believe this to be true. Now THERE'S a man who's learned the lessons of horror history.
 
 
Spaniel
10:35 / 05.07.07
I find myself strongly agreeing with Ibis's assessment of Hostel's purported American's as xenophobic and exploitative angle. The film portrays Europe as a comically creepy, weird place, where danger lurks around very corner. I half expected igor and his hump to show up.

Hostel does nothing but other Europeans and European culture, so much so that even the unsympathetic, 2 dimensional American characters come across as rich, nuanced and adorable in contrast.

As someone who doesn't particularly like gore, and has difficulty understanding just why people get off on watching torture on screen*, I suppose this was never going to be the film for me. That said, I really liked Audition, but then there was some genuinely interesting stuff going on there.

*Particularly now that I'm a parent, intriguingly
 
  
Add Your Reply