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Disney: Sorcerors Supreme

 
 
Good Antlerhead
02:21 / 03.02.02
Here's a group project. Let's pick apart Disney bit by bit. Spot all of the NLP. Spot all of the magick. Deconstruct & slice to bits the corporation that rules childhood on this planet. I want to pick apart how they have manipulated both real magic and the cartoony idea of magic to rule the world.

Some things in similar vein which you should check out to get a better idea of what I'm talking about are the brilliant "Cereal Box Conspiracy" article in "Apocalypse Culture" and the article about homonculii (forget what it's called) in "Apocalypse Culture II."

More likely than not, the Disney corporation was the one responsible for imprinting your brain to this culture. They helped in the creation of YOU. The least we can do is do our best to figure out exactly what, and how, they did.

Disney.com (DISNEY.COM: WHERE THE MAGIC COMES TO YOU) is the biggest trove of occult weirdness on the internet. Check out, for instance, their (hypnotic) flash games, like the devious (my tongue is only halfway in my cheek) PB&J Otter, a game which requires the child to do a banishing ritual before the techno-magickal otters will appear and you are allowed to start the game. Go check it out.

Anyway, let's analyze, let's fuck da shit up.
 
 
Naked Flame
13:23 / 03.02.02
Watch as I summon Dread Cthulu with a Donald Duck impresssssssion!

Well, one thing that pops up straight away in the PB&J thing is the illusion of free play. Kids naturally play with anything and everything, requiring no external prompt, and no extant rules (tho they may make huge complex rule-systems up as part of playing.) Here, play is multiple choice. That's part of the limitations of the medium. But in a wider context, Disney offers multiple-choice 'play' right across the board. You go see the film. The film is fun. You buy the action figures: now you can 'play' with the film yourself. You get Mum to buy you the lunchbox because the film was fun, therefore the lunchbox must also be more fun than a plain one. You want to go to Eurodisney because it's like being in the movie.

I'm just riffing here. So far there's nothing there that isn't standard hegemonic memegineering. Everybody does that these days...

Specifics. Hmmm. Well, how about Mickey in Fantasia? the brooms that wouldn't stop bringing water? nice little statement for the kids- 'magick will only get you into trouble. Don't mess with it...'
 
 
ciarconn
19:29 / 03.02.02
Curiously, I was thinking about Disney the other day.

There has been a rumor, for many years, here in Mexico, about the subliminal messages in Disney's animations, mostly in the movies; messages mostly related to sex. I, honestly nevar have managed to see one, and I usually catch them on commercials and the like.

The more interesting point, though, was in the old shows (which I must have seen in the 70's, but may be even older). Those shows started with a caleidoscopic show of lights, similar, in concept to the lights that onbe perceives when entering an hallucinogenic state. Thus, stablishinc a psychic-reality level to the images in the show
Probably the logo can be analyzed as a rune, or the whole Disney work as an Hypersigil.
Food for thought
 
 
Tamayyurt
09:30 / 04.02.02
I don't know, I live a few hours away from Disney World and I've only gone about 3 times in my life. That may seem like a lot but not when there's a whole bunch of people I know who have seasonal tickets and go at least 4 times a year. Every year. (note: These are the most unmagical, saddest wretches on Earth) They're only truly happy in Disney World. If "DRUGS" was a place it would be Disney World.
 
 
grant
16:02 / 04.02.02
My best friend growing up used to go to Disney World all the time until my mother laid on her Disney rap: "It's like 1984 - Big Brother Mouse says 'Enjoy!'... and you ENJOY!!"

We live about 2.5 hours away and have lots of foreign relatives who ALWAYS came to stay and ALWAYS went to Disney World. That damn triple sphere sigil.....
 
 
Persephone
16:10 / 04.02.02
Isn't the word imagineer a Disney thing? That's sort of magicky, isn't it?
 
 
MJ-12
16:19 / 04.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Flame On:
Specifics. Hmmm. Well, how about Mickey in Fantasia? the brooms that wouldn't stop bringing water? nice little statement for the kids- 'magick will only get you into trouble. Don't mess with it...'


But the Master shows up and dismissed them easily, so the lesson would be either, trust your elders/don't try to get above your station or simply do not call up that which you cannot put down.
 
 
Re-Set
19:37 / 04.02.02
There's quite a bit of sacred geometry in the Fantasia movies...I'll have to re-peruse them for specifics. They are just about the only 2 Disney productions I can abide by. That is, ever since watching The Bungle Book. (Kipling was what I first learned to read on, and I was serious enough as a kid to be furious at the mock-ups of the jungle cretures)
 
 
Seth
20:22 / 04.02.02
Is it just me, or does Mary Poppins sit very uneasily in the Disney canon? The whole thing feels very Paris, 1968. It doens't feel like a Disney movie at all...
 
 
Papess
20:55 / 04.02.02
How about "Bedknobs and Broomsticks" ?

Talk about your Astral Travel and Lucid Dreaming!

~May
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:35 / 13.11.02
random resuscitation of old threads...

Mary Poppins was written by Pamela Travers who was a disciple of Gurdjieff (almost certainly the wrong spelling) so there is this odd bohemian/magickal subtext to the original story, that even Disneyfication can't totally erase. Do a web search on Travers, she's quite an interesting character, and finding out about the author sheds a very strange light on her book and the film..
 
 
illmatic
13:50 / 13.11.02
Now I want to see Mary Poppins again.. roll on Xmas TV..
Isn't The Sorceror's Apprentice based on a classical myth anyway?
 
 
Aertho
15:11 / 13.11.02
Among my favorite films of Disney include "Mary Poppins" and "Bedknobs and Broomsticks"... An essay on the presentations of magic, chaos vs. ideal control, and human interactive behavior might be a post in itself.

While I acknowledge that Disney, both the concept and corresponding symbology, can be considered a formative ideology of contemporary culture. I cannot recall any film put out by Disney in the last three decades that has as much impact on "correct" human relationships to others, the world, and obscure entities as those produced during the time of Julie Andrews and Angela Lansbury.

Perhaps it's the final guillotine of modern thinking(the minds that produced both "Mary Poppins" and "Bedknobs and Broomsticks") that prevents actual ideological storytelling nowadays. Current Disney feels(I use my intuitive senses too often in these discussions) pandering and run of the mill. While 1960s Disney was also very pandering, I assume that at the time, it was culturally responsive to the psychedelia and civil movements of the time, creating a authentic bridge between conservatives and liberals of the era. Current society recognizes the gray complexities that divide the two(no film can generalize THAT into animated candy).

A discussion on the philosophical staleness of the current Disney idea versus the subtley impactful 1960s Disney is another topic of its own.

As I understand the initial topic of THIS thread, shall I list the ways and controls that "Mary Poppins" and "Bedknobs and Broomsticks" has had on me? Thereby creating a concrete ideology of these films as a magickal primer? Shall we discuss the nature and motivations of the animated Evil and what the animated Good must actually do to overcome animated Evil's obstacle?
 
 
Sebastian
15:12 / 13.11.02
From a magickal or occult perspective, I have found in general that whatever is vomited from Disney is a fair set of media crap believes, which helps either to reinforce them in the american mind or to install them to whomever is looking after them.

I am interested in the rumours Ciarconn mentions above about sex messages, but I guess they may just try to support the sex life a "normal" citizen of the modern world is supposed to lead.

Does anybody know anything about the connection between Philip Dick and Disneyland??? I haven't found anything beyond suggestions from RAW and some cryptic Dick's statement like "The secret is in Disenyland".

I've also been told that at Disneyland there is sort of a VIP place inside the castle to which only powerful media personalities have access -I don't thing Impulsivelad may have the privilege, unless he is plainly lying-, and that whatever goes on inside is as naif as the flying wales in Fantasia 2000.
 
 
Tamayyurt
15:46 / 13.11.02
Sebastian- -I don't Impulsivelad may have the privilege, unless he is lying-

What's this?

I've never been to Disneyland that's on the other side of the country (California) I've been to Disney World (Florida) 3 times but I've never been in the castle.
 
 
Aertho
15:56 / 13.11.02
I was TOLD that the interior upper levels of the castles at both Disney Land and World were for rich people who wanted Disney-esque wedding receptions. I bet it's just storage otherwise... which is symbolic in a way.
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
17:08 / 13.11.02
Hahahaha.

I will gladly work on this thread, since for a period of about eight years Disney sunks their hooks into my soft brain tissue and squeeeezed. They really could do no wrong in my mind, and I defended their actions vigorously to others, not because I stood to directly gain by their success but because I hoped that one day I might hitch my wagon to their monolith. That all came to an end when I was 19 or 20 and realized that really, no matter what sort of creative innovations I could deliver to them, I would probably receive minimal credit or compensation for that essential piece of my soul, not to mention that I had ambitions of projects that would be far too coarse or metaphysical for the nearly lowest common denominator they cater to. I still respect the organization in terms of the polish of their products, but whatever spirit I might have once detected in their output has dwindled to a bare minimum.

My stock is also worth shit now. So much for unstoppable juggernauts.

Really, the best of what Disney has brought to market in the last few years has come from without the organization, like the Pixar films and the short happy life of Who Wants To Be A Millionaire.

The upper offices of the Cinderella castle in DIsney World were originally intended to be private quarters for the Disney family, but as Walt expired fairly early in the property's development and his brother Roy apparently had too much of a life to live inside an amusement park (which one cannot say of the residents of Celebration City) they became simply administerial offices. Sort of pointless, I guess, since most of the administration happens underneath the damn parks anyway. I've been privy to some great stories about hosts doing the nasty while still in costume in that subterranean complex (and possibly in some more conspicuous places as well). The whole thing smacks of the grim yet superficially cheery world of the Oompa Loompas, don't it?

As to secret spots in Disneyland, there is of course the notorious Club 33, which lays beyond a plain door in New Orleans Square marked only with the number 33 (degrees of Masonry, anyone?). Now that one Walt *did* visit while alive, and often, as his death at 65 should amply demonstrate. It is supposedly the only place within the Magic Kingdom you can get alcohol; the trick, of course, is getting in in the first place...

Now as to disarming the Disney memes, what exactly are those, and are they necessarily something we want dismantled? Other than those crass ones which serve mainly to line Michael Eisner's pockets, ie Taiwanese sweatshops et al, is there something "bad" in the ways in which they portray hope, family, love and equality? I know they're not especially intellectualized, and may even at times defeat those aims by presenting them in too simple or whimsical light, but is there malice in that end of the beast? Let's not kill what we don't like; let's shape it into our tool. I've got my own ideas, but has anyone got anything more general?
 
 
Sebastian
19:13 / 13.11.02
Thanks Baptiste. Quite interesting.

Impulsivelad, I was just kidding, wondering that maybe a tricky and highly spirited magickian would have acces to wild magickal parties run at the hidden underground of Disneyworld.
 
 
grant
21:22 / 13.11.02
Isn't "The Lion King" (the first Disney film not based on a prior work of fiction) chock full of shamanic imagery and ideology?
The whole "circle of life" thing - and the Hamlet-esque plot about removing the false ruler with the true ruler, who (of course) comes from within the child/self?
 
 
Tamayyurt
23:14 / 13.11.02
This just hit me... has there ever been a Disney cartoon (i.e. major movie not TV show) with a black main character? I can't remember but I don't think so? I know Lion King was set in Africa (obviously) but it was all animals. Were there any black people in Tarzan? I know that there was a supporting black characters in Lilo & Stitch and Atlantis... but no main characters, huh? How odd. Has anybody else noticed?
 
 
bpm77
23:20 / 13.11.02
Disney is a bit of a paradox. I grew up in Jacksonville, FL, about 2.5 hours away from Disney World, and went about a dozen times (twice on heavy drugs, as I was a teen by then). The conflict within the company is thus: numerous creative and interesting individuals who must work for a few very non-interesting elite. One of my friends actually worked on some of their animation, and she is a rather intense and unique person. This is a classic dilemma- in order to make a living in a creative arena, you usually have to sell your soul to do it. This goes back centuries, and continues today. I submit that any 'occult' influences in Disney are created from the inside, unknown to the more profit-minded exec's in the firm. If anything, I take this as the struggles of the artists to try to subvert the bland, uninspired creations that they work on.
 
 
Sebastian
13:30 / 14.11.02
the bland, uninspired creations that they work on

Thats right. Disney usually targets its products for as much children from every possible continent. This necessarily flattens whatever subject is at hand.
 
 
grant
14:48 / 14.11.02
impulsivelad: The either "quaint" or "hideously racist" Song of the South used Uncle Remus as a narrator/main character.
Zip-ah-dee-doo-dah!
 
 
ill tonic
17:36 / 14.11.02
Because somebody asked -- The Last Days Of PKD ... Phillip K Dick, Disney and the tibetan idea of tulpas.
 
 
cusm
18:21 / 15.11.02
Seems the consipracy has been on for longer than we suspected:
 
 
Badbh Catha
18:30 / 15.11.02
BBC link for above photo.

Too funny.
 
 
Tamayyurt
20:54 / 15.11.02
Grant- Oh yeah, I remeber that movie? Man, they are keeping that shit in the vault cause I haven't seen or heard about that movie is years!
 
 
Tamayyurt
21:02 / 15.11.02
You know, if you were creating (or in the case of Mikey, borrowing and anciet) godfrom to help expand your empire... a mouse would be perfect! They spread like a virus and they're cute.
 
 
Papess
22:41 / 16.11.02
Has anyone ever seen a Disney Tarot? If it is unheard of then maybe we could make one. Maybe, Mickey Mouse could be the Magus? Who would be the FooL...Goofy?
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
14:39 / 18.11.02
The Magus would either be Mickey in his sorceror's apprentice garb, or the very sorceror himself, Yensid (spell it backwards). Goofy would definitely be The Fool, and Tchernobog from "Night on Bald Mountain" makes as good a devil as I can think of. If we're not restricted to the company's characters, Michael Eisner makes a good Emperor, though his power seems to be in decline. For The Chariot, perhaps Cinderella's coach or Aladdin's carpet, or maybe Hook's flying galleon or Herbie the Love Bug. Tower, hmmm... anyone think of any buildings notorious for falling down in Disney movies? The Cave of Secrets in Aladdin, though that's more underground. There's also Lilo's house from Lilo & Stich... hrm, this may take a while.
 
 
Perfect Tommy
18:13 / 18.11.02
I don't recall it falling down, but what about the pinnacle that Mickey stands on, calling up the waves, in Sorceror's Apprentice as the Tower?

He's standing there when he wakes up and has his illusions shattered, right? So it's thematically close.
 
 
Vadrice
15:10 / 20.11.02
Tarot tarot tarot. Always tarot.

anyway... Disney is interesting, because even it's employees are intentioned to wear fictionsuits. Even the average people standing about not in costume are told they are "on stage" while they are working. Programmed to think outside of themselves while they are on the job.

With all the energy of all of those open child minds abounding... it's no wonder Disney was capeable of the things it's accomplished. It wouldn't take much at all to hold onto for as long as it has with a little consciousness.

Unfortunatly, Eisner doesn't understand what he's holding on to. He's trying too hard to be nothing more than a machine.

Damn corporate world and it's Imperialist structures...
 
  
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