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Galileo, Glonass, GPS and the politics of global positioning

12:27 / 28.12.05

So, today sees the launch of the first of a consellation of European satelites that will eventually form Galileo, a European version of US GPS global positioning system. A few days ago the Russians launched some replacement satelites to upgrade their own satalite positioning system, called Glonass...

Galileo is due to cost EUR 3 bn and its chief selling point is that it will reduce Europe's reliance on the US GPS system (GPS is run by the US Military which retains the right to shut down the system in whole or in part at any time)...

So, what do people think?

Is Galileo a much needed upgrading of indigenous European capabilities, an unecessary expense or something else?

What do people make of Galileo, Glonass and GPS

07:14 / 29.12.05

Galileo is above all a demonstration of Europe's will to be a world-leader, a peer of the USA. As former Swedish Prime Minister Carl Bildt said, "If Europe really wishes to be taken seriously as a partner by the U.S. while ensuring it has access to capabilities critical for its economic development, it must demonstrate it has the will and means to develop a presence in space."

GALILEO is designed to integrate with both NAVSTAR and GLONASS. The 30 satellites in GALILEO will combine with these systems to give a grand total of 80 satellites.

GALILEO will provide better coverage for northern Europe because it's satellites possess a greater angle of inclination to the equator. This matters, especially in built up areas.

GALILEO will provide greater accuracy than the other systems currently do, but by the time Galileo is complete, in 2014, GPS should have completed it's L1C modernisation, giving it comparable accuracy. See Future Navigation Needs Your Input for L1C etc.

GALILEO will allow European providers of spatial services closer control and be leave them less affected by military needs of NAVSTAR, which at times results in the movement of satellites for military purposes.

Some reports indicate that GALILEO could generate as much as 190B$ in goods and services, new products and technologies over 10 years while at the same time providing many jobs in an expanding European space program.

This information is largely taken from GALILEO, GLONASS And NAVSTAR - A Report on GPS for GIS People.

I think it's a very good idea.

09:27 / 29.12.05

But of course, not everyone agrees, Professor Heinz Wolff, an avowed Euro-sceptic who has held many honarary positions within ESA (for the EU and ESA are two different things) sees this as a waste of money, duplicating already established science. He sees
more valuable goals in pursuing genuinely innovative space science that will deliver new information.

It's probably worth noting here that the US was very keen that European governments did not pursue Galileo and instead remained reliant on the US for access to global positioning technology. European governments looked set to go along with this view until the build-up to the war in Iraq when the importance of having a seperate capacity for this technology became so readily apparent.

So, what do people think about the civillian nature of the Galileo project as opposed to the military nature of the US GPS system.

All Acting Regiment

12:22 / 30.12.05

Wasn't it Gallileo that was supposed to be used to track criminals from space? Or was that something else? That system seems readily open to abuse by the authorities.

From a fluffy, aesthetic and possibly not laboratory-welcome point of view I find something unpleasant about knowing exactly where you are. You're out walking in the hills, you want to get a bit lost, you want to get away from civilisation. From a political point of view I find something absolutely abhorent about the State knowing exactly where you are...if that's a possibility here, which I don't know for sure.

12:40 / 30.12.05

That system seems readily open to abuse by the authorities.

As opposed to the US GPS system which is explictly being used for military purposes?

13:08 / 30.12.05

It's very good though when we know exactly where an aeroplane, train or a lorry load of dangerous materials is, Legba.

23:07 / 31.12.05

As opposed to the US GPS system which is explictly being used for military purposes?
My gut feeling is to prefer an explicitly military designation over a civilian one, for the same reason I'd rather tanks and bombers were used by the military than the civilian authorities. Whether that feeling, with regards to GPS, is rational, I don't know.

Tryphena Absent

00:01 / 03.01.06

On the other hand I find the idea of a miltary force, in no way answerable to the government that presides over me, having a monopoly on GPS very frightening. I would rather it be used for people, in a civilian fashion by civilians who generally transport those dangerous materials.

20:25 / 03.01.06

A GPS receiver cannot give away your position. You`d need some kind of location transmitter to do that.
A mobile phone , bank/store/tube card or visible face/numberplate is much easier to track.
GPS simply picks up a time pulse (PPS) from 4 or more sats and computes a position from that.
Congestion charging mk2, ID cards and smart number plates will probably involve a transmitter and at some point.
Trust the tracking...the tracking is your friend.

22:49 / 13.01.06

It's not just an EU project now, South Korea, China, Isreal and the Ukraine are all behind it now. I'm a lot more comfortable with a multi-national system than one run by a single country like GPS (USA) or Glonass (Russia). It's also inter-operable with those two so it would take all three being knocked out or switched off for it to fail entirely.

It is also in part a way to support the European Space Industry (and to some extent Russias as well) along with a bunch of other tech company's that'll be able to cash in building the equipment. Now considering the tough time Nasa has had with the 'current administration' and disasters I say making sure the EU has a healty space industry is a good idea, I'd rather they spent the money on this than Farming Subsidies to be honest.

12:05 / 16.01.06

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but while the Giove A satelite has broadcast on the correct frequency, but it still requires a second satelite (Giove B?, one that is equipped with an atomic clock that will enable the Galileo constellation to broadcast an accurate timecode signal, before ESA will have unambigiously claimed the frequency currently set aside for Galileo... right?