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Dell crapbox to supergamesmachine - how?

 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
01:46 / 27.12.05
Ok. I can't give you the specifics right now, as I'm neither at home, nor on my computer, but I was wondering if any barbeloids out there have had any experience with turning Dell's low-profile Optiplex computers into games machines.

As far as I understand it, the case will only let in a half-height vidcard. I'm bumping up the RAM to maximum (4gb? Not sure. 2 at least), and the guts of the thing is a 2.8gHz P4, so it should have reasonable grunt to run stuff. (And stuff like Quake 3, etc, runs fine, though my monitor makes an evil high-pitched wailing noise). The question is: what vidcard should I get so that I can play things like HL2, Far Cry - possibly even F.E.A.R - at reasonable rates? I'm probably going to buy equipment through Aussie online etailers, and this will only be a stopgap until I get the cash and time to put together a proper box of my own. But yanno, I want a computer that makes me want to play with it, as opposed to making me want to throw it out the window.

Any hints? Would the motherboard be worth saving, or is its chopped-down nature marking it for the crapheap.
 
 
nameinuse
22:05 / 28.12.05
Which size optiplex? I'm assuming the medium sized one, as that's what most people have. Your options aren't great, and you'll find that the motherboard isn't actually ATX, so you can't really swap another one in, you're stuck with what you have.

You might be able to upgrade the CPU (to the maximum that motherboard supports - there are loads of different chipsets in optiplexs, what number is it?). RAM's a good choice too, but there's little point in going over 2GB, you'll be limited by other factors.

You're just left searching for the best GFX card you can for whatever interface your mobo has (if it's one of the ones without an add-on interface at all, better give up now). There are a few half-height cards out there, but you may have to make the back-plate half-height on your own, or get one that fits from elsewhere. They usually unscrew by the bits that the VGA/DVI cable screws into (they're little motherboard-standoff type things).
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
23:48 / 28.12.05
Okies. I've got a Dell Optiplex GX270, according to Everest, which I know is a shithouse chopped-down bastard. There's currently two free card slots: a white one, and a slightly longer green one. What're these? I should really know, but given that my 133t tech skillz stretch to HD replacement atm, I'm not sure.

I'm not going to replace the guts of it - I'd rather build my own, which will be my project for next year. But I spose I really need advice on a good half-height vid card. Anyone got any recommendations? I'm assuming (incorrectly?) that I'll be running an AGP card? Doesn't have to be hideously high-end, just able to perhaps run something like Far Cry on a reasonable (ie: not hyper-exciting) setting. I'd probably not go beyond 800x600 for games like that anyway, but would like to play them (and HL2, possibly FEAR, etc) without much stutter at med res. Will almost anything work, as long as I chop down the backplate? I'll try to put a pic of the guts of this shitbox up as soon as I get my digicam out of the holiday bags, so you can see how much room I've got. Not entirely sure how successful this'll be. I've seen this card recommended, and apparently it's available locally for $70-odd bucks. Any good? (If you know a specific model and want a local aussie price, check here for online sales - it'd help if something recommended was available here, which I know isn't usually the case! I'm looking at about $200 at most?)

So yeah. What's a good half-height vidcard? Anyone had to install one? Tips? I've installed cards in stuff before, I've just never had to take a hacksaw to it. I guess finding a half-height backplate shouldn't be hard, though.

Another question: this thing's only got 2 DDR slots in it. At present, there's 2x256MB 333mhz sticks in there. Technically, I can run 2gig in here, which is what I'll do - but is there any drama in running 400mhz memory in a 333mhz slot? I'm imagining not, but I'd like to make sure.

Aha! here's a PDF of specs for the Dell PC I've got. I've got the small form one.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
01:34 / 29.12.05
Here's Google's cache of Dell's page about the GX270, including internal layout.

Does this help?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
01:38 / 29.12.05
Specs are here, also.
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
10:01 / 29.12.05
I've built several dozen PCs in my time, so I guess my first question really has to be what the hell possessed you to buy a Dell!? There are whole batch of problems associated with them, from their preinstalled OSs not being the full versions, to their use of OEM cards (i.e. zero product support on the cards, which often includes driver updates). That, coupled with the motherboard type in your version, is going to cause problems, or at the very least seriously limited your ability to expand.
If you seriously want a halfway decent rig at the end of it, at least - as you request - decent enough to run Far Cry and still have it look pretty - you're probably better off ditching the Dell and building from scratch.
If you are happy to do that, I am more than happy to advise you on every stage through to the finished rig. If not, or in the meantime, I'll try to help out where I can in tweaking your Dell...

is there any drama in running 400mhz memory in a 333mhz slot? I'm imagining not, but I'd like to make sure.
You're fine. The memory sticks will clock down, so it's perfectly ok to use faster memory sticks in less fast slots.

what vidcard should I get so that I can play things like HL2, Far Cry - possibly even F.E.A.R - at reasonable rates?
Well, this really is a case of you get what you pay for. With a decent CPU, motherboard and memory sticks, I've got HL2 and Far Cry running pretty decently on a GeForce FX5200 card (the nVidia equivilent of the ATI Radeon 9550 card in your link). Both cards are excellent, in my opinion, and since both companies have been busy spitting out bigger and more powerful models for the Christmas market, the low and mid range cards have really shot down in price. F.E.A.R is going to cause you problems with those cards, however. It's a resource-hungry beast, and unless you're happy to turn down all the settings (and *still* have the game chug) you're going to need more oomph.
If your budget stretches to it, I suggest trying for at least the GeForce 6 series. The GeForce 6600 is an especially good card for the price range you mentioned, and the card out performs the ATI equivilent (the Radeon 9800) in enough areas to make it worth seriously considering. It is also a good enough card that when you finally ditch the Dell and build a real PC, the card will be more than adequate for pretty much everything you need to run. Again, F.E.A.R will chug slightly, but I can tell you from my own experience that I can run HL2 and Far Cry on all their highest settings with this card and get no noticable slowdown whatsoever.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
13:01 / 29.12.05
I've built several dozen PCs in my time, so I guess my first question really has to be what the hell possessed you to buy a Dell!?
My sentiments exactly. However, the box is supplied by an employer, as a tradeoff for some out-of-hours web updating. For those purposes, it works OK. But for anything else: fahgeddaboutit. Hence my decision to build my own next year. This is just a stopgap until that happens - I'm certainly willing to spend more on a vidcard that'll kick arse when I've got a system that's able to adequately match it.

(It'll probably be a long, slow process as I'm wanting to get reasonable equipment, which may take a while to gather, given my impending wedding/30th celebrations, which'll dent the cash. But I'm certainly really interested in hearing your advice for PC construction, and all that geeky, AMD-versus-Intel stuff. New thread? I'll seriously need your help, Tez!)

If your budget stretches to it, I suggest trying for at least the GeForce 6 series.
So anything with 128+ on board that's based on the GeForce 6 chipset should be good? Do you know of a low profile variant? Obviously, I'm loath to leave the case open... but it sounds like this could be a good option. I just need something that'll fit in the damn box...

I'm imagining that the Intel integrated graphics card that comes with this system will, even with 2GB of RAM, be a bwa-ha-ha when it comes to running HL2, right? I'm wondering if Doom 3 and F.E.A.R. can wait...
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
13:15 / 29.12.05
Additionally - will the power supply cause problems, do you think?

I'm beginning to wonder...
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
19:45 / 29.12.05
But I'm certainly really interested in hearing your advice for PC construction, and all that geeky, AMD-versus-Intel stuff. New thread? I'll seriously need your help, Tez!
Always happy to help. Just let me know when you're thinking of bolting the monster together, and I'll render any assistance I can.

So anything with 128+ on board that's based on the GeForce 6 chipset should be good?
Yes, and if you like. 128Mb really should be the minimum if you're seriously thinking about running some of the latest games at full settings. Sure, a 64Mb will run most stuff, but they're getting pretty redundant now. I say 'if you like' to part the second as whilst there is a great deal of argument over whether nVidia or ATI have the bigger penis, there really isn't that much difference between the two. nVidia top ATI at some tasks, ATI top nVidia at others. PCI-Express aside, tThe essential points are that you get a 8x AGP card, that it has pixel shading (the higher the better), and that it has at least 128mb of onboard memory.

Obviously, I'm loath to leave the case open... but it sounds like this could be a good option. I just need something that'll fit in the damn box...
Like I said, that case size is a major headache. Although, whilst you say you're loathe to leave the case open, it's not actually as bad as you might think. In pretty much all PCs now, the closed case serves two purposes: (1) to stop crap getting into the guts of the machine, and, (2) to make the airflow via the internal fan(s) more efficient, thus aiding cooling. To be honest, leaving the case open, as long as it's just covered with something to stop crap getting in, really isn't that much of a problem. Your CPU may run a little hotter, but almost certainly not enough to be a problem (Intels tend to run a little cooler than AMDs anyway).

I'm imagining that the Intel integrated graphics card that comes with this system will, even with 2GB of RAM, be a bwa-ha-ha when it comes to running HL2, right? I'm wondering if Doom 3 and F.E.A.R. can wait...
You may be disappointed. I have not - admittedly - seen HL2 running on any onboard card, but the general rule of thumb is that it's always preferable to have the various aspects of a game handled by dedicated cards (visual by graphics card, audio by sound card, etc).
I know Intel did receive several complaints about HL2 crashing to desktop whilst running on their interal graphics chips, in response to which their tech support produced the following gem of assistance:

Symptom(s):
Half-Life* 2 game exits to the desktop at the end of a level and certain other points during gameplay.
Solution:
This issue has been recently reported and is currently being investigated.
The following steps can be used to minimize the issue reported with the game:
* Reload the game after the game exits. The game will continue from where it had previously stopped.
Additional information may be available at the game manufacturer's website.


As far as I'm aware, the load placed on the graphics processor, even with a huge wedge of memory behind it, by applications like HL2 and Far Cry is, I'm sorry to say, simply too much for most to bear.

Additionally - will the power supply cause problems, do you think?
I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. The only time you have to think about power supplies is when matching a case and motherboard. Since both are already taken care of in your Dell, this isn't really an issue. When you come to build your own, this will be something to consider, but for the moment you can leave it.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
22:26 / 29.12.05
Power supply: I've seen elsewhere that people run cards without upgrading the supply (it's only 160w or something equally shitty) while others say it's verboten. I suppose I should just suck it and see, if that's what happens...
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
06:31 / 30.12.05
Power supply: I've seen elsewhere that people run cards without upgrading the supply (it's only 160w or something equally shitty) while others say it's verboten. I suppose I should just suck it and see, if that's what happens...

Ah. That's going to be a problem. Apologies, I'm just so used to building PCs with 300w-450w supplies that I'd rather forgotten that there are still some 160s out there.
Although it's not what you want to hear, I'm going to be honest here: Your 160w supply won't be powerful enough to run the 6600. nVidia themselves recommend 300w to run the card, and I really would be very wary about plugging a card into an inadequate power supply. There have been cases where the attempted power drain proved too much, and the power supply burnt out; other times, you'll just find the card doesn't work. Unfortunately, pretty much all cards in the range we're looking at - both ATI and nVidia - require plugging in to a spare power jack, and both put quite a strain on the power unit.
Your options, realistically, are either wait until you start putting together a decent machine and get the card you want then, or get a less power-intensive card, which is of course counter-productive as it may not have enough oomph to run the games you want. Oh, and in case you're considering it, plugging in a bigger power supply is not a good idea. Depending on your motherboard type, there is a chance you'll blow something.
You may get away with running the next card set down (in nVidia's case the GeForce FX5200, in ATI's the Radeon 9550), but even then there is no assurance they'll run properly (although both companies state a 250w for these cards, I've seen both running adequately on 200w systems).

If you can confirm two pieces of information for me, I'll be able to tell you the best level of card you can hope to plug in, based the the card manufacturer's recommendations.
Firstly, if you can take the case off and investigate your power supply, and confirm for me what type of supply it is (just the wattage will be ok). Secondly, I need to know your AGP slot's (the green slot on your motherboard) voltage. If the PC is less than 3 years old, it's almost certainly 1.5v or less, but if you take a look at the motherboard just around the slot itself, there should be the voltage stamped somewhere.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:18 / 30.12.05
You _can_ run a faster AGP card in a higher-voltage AGP slot, but it will eventually burn out and stop working - might be OK as a stopgap, but again not much cop for gaming - you'll be able to do HL2, but I suspect Doom 3 would just not be scaleable enough.

Have you considered concentrating on RTS for a bit?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
11:05 / 10.01.06
Tez: I'll get back to you when I've had a chance to crack open the case. I've been looking around, and it seems that that Powercolor is pretty much one of the only options that works, in terms of vidcard.

I think I'll just stick to Freedom Force and Quake until the new box becomes a reality. Might be best for all concerned... bah. Mind you, the 9500 is only about fifty bucks or so...
 
  
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