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Hieros Gamos, Christ, and more

 
 
SMS
03:48 / 26.12.05
Here’s what wikipedia has to say about hieros gamos

Hieros Gamos or Hierogamy means a coupling (sometimes marriage) of a god and a man or a woman, often having a symbolic meaning. It is an ancient ritual in which participants believed that they could gain profound religious experience through sexual intercourse. Participants assumed characteristics of deities, often channeling the deities in question, and by their union provided symbolic and literal fertility for themselves, the land, and their people. This was often done by the monarch and hierodule of the dominant religion.

A possible modern example of hierogamy is in the religion of Wicca, in which participants engage in what is called the “Great Rite.” Most often done on Beltaine night (May 1), a man and a woman, assuming the identities of God and Goddess, engage in sexual intercourse to celebrate the union of the deities as lovers and the conception of the new God who will be born at Yule. It is essentially a fertility rite, meant to symbolize the planting of seed into Mother Earth, which will come to fruition in the fall.

The etymology is from Greek: “hieros” = holy and “gamos” = marriage, coupling.

I am particularly interested in this concept as it could relate to or contribute to a Christian context, but, for the purposes of this thread, I welcome comments on your own insights or whether this concept relates to your magical practices.

This topic is for discussion of both practice and theory. I, personally, am not looking for the use of sex, as such, to attain extatic experiences, but, rather, in magical or prayerful practices that use the concept of the union. The rituals described by wikipedia seem to me to underestimate the potential of the idea, but I haven’t put my finger on how, just yet.

As a note of slight interest: I started this topic because of a paper I wrote on the fourth chapter of the Gospel of John.
 
 
Anthony
05:18 / 27.12.05
i'm not sure anybody would want to screw the Xian god.
 
 
Anthony
05:23 / 27.12.05
however, without a doubt, "mystical" experiences can ensue from tantric practice. possibly, i think, from the male point of view, because of the conservation of energy implicit in semen retention, and more likely still, from the level of abandonment that can be achieved, freeing us momentarily from the eternal malaise of our social roles. orgasm arrived at through tantric practice is an overwhelmingly powerful experience on every level, i'm not sure i would feel the need to credit it to a god or goddess though... to me that would still be a symptom of a basic split resulting from dualistic attitudes.
 
 
Anthony
05:25 / 27.12.05
images imo are temporary phenomena self-created by the psyche for a particular purpose, eg psychological healing, and should not be worshipped or given too much importance.
that's my dry, sceptical thelemic attitude speaking.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:03 / 31.12.05
i'm not sure anybody would want to screw the Xian god.

Oh, I don't know. I mean, maybe not the Father, but the Son has had His fair share of starry-eyed devotees seeking 'ecstatic union' with Him over the years.
 
 
SMS
18:11 / 31.12.05
Origen's first homily allegorizes the Song of Songs, emphasizing lines like, "Let Him kiss me with the kisses of His mouth," and "Thy breasts are better than wine, and the odour of thy perfumes better than all spices." He even talks about why it is important that it says "thy breasts" rather than "bosom" or "little breast." Of course, Origen did his best to make this love and desire a spiritual love and desire, but I can't read the more powerful parts of the sermon and maintain this separation in my mind.

Marriage is used as a metaphor for the relationship between God and Israel in the Old Testament fairly frequently (although not in Song of Songs) and it is even more prominent in the New Testament. It's never so basic as a desire "to screw" God; much of it aims a little loftier than I would go. So I don't think this is entirely foreign to Christianity, but, like I said, right now, I've only found enough to keep me interested in the subject, and I'm not sure where to go with it.
 
 
Anthony
00:52 / 09.01.06
so what kind of information are you looking for, more specifically?
 
 
Anthony
00:53 / 09.01.06
generally, since the Self contains all possibilities, it is possible to formulate any particular idea or set of ideas as a form and then to unite the conscious ego with it. Thelemic Magick as well as the more obvious sources such as Tantra might be valuable avenues for research.
 
 
eye landed
08:30 / 09.01.06
do girls like me because i look like jesus? i dressed as jesus last halloween, and i was more popular than usual. i met a beautiful girl dressed as aphrodite, but it was a bit awkward.

warning! poorly thought-out writing follows, abounding with some kind of sexism.

ive been trying to figure out freyja for a while. i think she is the goddess behind the cultural movement of 'girl power' as sexual power. bleached hair, pushup bras, make-up, and t-shirts that say 'porn star' are all freyjan tools that a girl/woman (especially when that dual term is the most apt one) uses to increase her sexual power-- particularly power over men. often these women have a traditionally male perspective of sex: its a casual entertainment and a system of social prestige, and even an urge that, if not uncontrollable, must be released when charged. (i dont mean the women in question deny that sex is also potentially reproductive, dangerous, and cosmic, but that they want to ignore those aspects as much as reasonably possible.) consider that only 50 years ago, women (in brittania at least) were expected to deny their sexual energy.

when a man is attracted to one of these women, part of his attraction comes from the hopeless lure of freyja. like much of our postmodern world, the rituals are right out in the open. wiccan great rites or whatever are fine for those of anachronistic tastes, and im sure theyre a riot, but you dont need to quest so deeply to see hierogamy.

in fact, the conflation of the great rite with freyjan magic, which just happened in my mind, has the potential to make both more interesting. i dont know how wiccans really dress for their rites, but certain artefacts have led me to believe it involves pure nudity and antlers. why not dress the goddess invoker as a stereotypical club tart?

ing/freyr is more occult to me than freyja, but he has always seemed a weaker character than his counterpart. (freyja used her sexual power to get stuff, like her brisingamen necklace. freyr gave up his phallic potency (the magic sword) to marry a girl he loved, which sucked at the end of the world when he had to fight the king of giants.) this female dominance seems appropriate to modern sexual pseudomagic (for example, doormen let women into clubs) as well as to wicca. maybe not so much weaker as in the britney spears marriage, for example, but maybe a stereotypical male club tart could fill this role. but this brings me in a circle: why organize a great rite with your wiccan coven when you can just pop down to the local bar, and find dozens god-actors in various states of undress writhing together on the dancefloor?

how does this relate to christianity? well, some christians rail against it, for one. list of stereotypical uptight-christian issues: music with a beat, dressing sexy, mind-altering drugs, quasisexual contact between unmarried youngsters. the only one i can think of thats not part of a dance clubs business plan is violence, and thats often a side effect of getting passions raised (i.e. drunken fights outside bars are common). is it the hierogamy the christians are afraid of? or the sexualization of it? perhaps their god is too intimidating to be hott. or maybe hierogamy is a christian goal, too: yhwh only seems interested in virgins. dont spoil your chances to fuck god, girls! he doesnt dig heathen sluts!

-material for optional further study-

on girl power: madonna (whos more italian than most popes), the spice girls (5 - 1 = 4 + 1)

on freyja: link
 
 
illmatic
08:45 / 09.01.06
SMS: You might find the work of Jeffrey Kripal of interest. He's most well known for excellent (to my eyes), though extraordinarily controversial, Kali's Child, in which he alledgely uncovers a homosexual and pederastic subtext to the religious ectasies of Indian saint Ramakrishna.

Though this is Kripal's most well known work, he has also written Roads of Excess, Palaces of Wisdom which contains large chunks of autobiography. He was a Benedictine monk for a while, and he describes in detail the homosexual aesthetic underlying a lot of the preisthood's attitude to worship, centred on the figure of Jesus. It's really fascinating - a participant observation mass psychoanalysis of a religious institution. It was rejection of this that led him to his tantric studies.

It's very dense and wordy book, but worth having a look at nonetheless.
 
 
grant
18:11 / 09.01.06
Explain the John 4 connection, please.
 
 
SMS
03:41 / 10.01.06
Anth: so what kind of information are you looking for, more specifically?

I will give it a try.

I am interested in the theory and practice of attaining unity with God through intimate connections. (Wouldn’t I write a romantic love letter: Dear Alice, the intimate evening we enjoyed last night has forced me to revise my prior theory of love, which I now realize was much to static. I look forward to further such encounters both for their intrinsic value (which is great) and for their utility in facilitating the revision).

But I am interested in more than the unity, but also the creative power of that unity. A magical ritual of the kind I had in mind, then, would likely produce some results, but, unlike some rituals, those results would be unprescribed (By analogy, an act of sex may produce life, but the personality of that life and all the details of that creation are largely unpredictable).

The Christian context is one in which the body is understood as sanctified through the enfleshment of God and God’s Wisdom, and thus, that which is bodily in an effort to find unity with God ought not be shunned (as Origen tried to do) in favor of a lofty, completely allegorized version of sex. Neither, of course, should the lofty be abandoned in favor of the material, for the sanctification of the body rests on God, not yet flesh, becoming flesh, that we might be as Christ.

For my mind, Britney Spears and Porn Star tee-shirts are going to represent the most basic and material of the world — precisely that most in need of sanctification and wholly inadequate in itself for a ritual of unity with God. But, of course, not recognizing these as holy parts of Creation would be tantamount to viewing them sinfully, disconnected from God, which is precisely the opposite direction I’m wanting to go. (So scorning Britney too strongly is as surely against my purposes as embracing her too fully)

Now, if anyone here has actual experience with coupling with a god, that would certainly be the kind of information I’m looking for. But I also appreciate the suggestions I’ve received so far. And I’d like ideas about the process, and other things I haven’t thought of yet.

That’s my effort to answer the question. I hope it helps but I don’t want to put heavy restraints on the discussion.

Grant: Explain the John 4 connection, please.

I see three wedding stories in the Fourth Gospel. The first is at Cana, in which Jesus transforms water into wine. The headwaiter complains that this is good wine, and we are supposed to serve the good wine at the beginning of the wedding. He thinks the wedding is over, but this is the beginning of Jesus’ ministry in John. The third wedding story is with Jesus on the cross, when the sour wine is served to him, and his side is pierced with a spear (a symbol of the consecration of the wedding). Out of his side flows a stream of water and blood. These two stories indicate that the entire time between them is meant to be read as a wedding between God and humanity. The second wedding story is the story of the Samaritan Woman at the well in chapter 4, the story that initiates Jesus’ “I am” claims. My paper argued that the exchange between Jesus and the woman at the well was one of a mutual exchange of the Divine Logos (and mutual transformation), but it included in this claim that one bit was Jesus suggesting that He (God) could fill the role of her husbands.
To paraphrase:

“Go get your husband”
“I have no husband”
“I know”

All of this, of course, requires an argument to see, but that’s how it’s connected to the thread. Jesus’ entire ministry was meant to be a wedding of sorts.

Illmatic: You might find the work of Jeffrey Kripal of interest.
Hmmm. The wikipedia entry doesn’t paint a very flattering portrait of this one. It sounds like his argument was so amazingly off that his critics doubted his integrity, and he made the claim that their doubting of his integrity was the same as making an ad hominem argument. Still, that doesn’t mean the work is of no value.
 
 
SMS
03:43 / 10.01.06
Oh, and one of the main points with the Samaritan Woman exchange was that the intimacy produced unpredictable results, basically because both parties were changed by their interaction.
 
 
*
07:37 / 10.01.06
You've surely, of course, read the poetry of St. John of the Cross in connection with hierogamy, at least as a literary symbol?

The Dark Night
 
 
SMS
10:56 / 10.01.06
id, this is wonderful. No, I've heard St John of the Cross come up in conversations frequently of late, but I've never had the chance to stop and ask about him. Thanks.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:27 / 12.01.06
It's never clear how literally one should take writing in that vein. Obviously, nobody's talking about "screwing God" in the most basic sense, but are people using language such as St John of the Cross uses really talking about an experience with a sexual componant? Or is it just very difficult to discuss a certain kind of union with Christ without reaching for metaphors that relate to sexual love, because that's the only positive emotion of comparable intensity that the writer can think of?
 
 
*
07:14 / 13.01.06
Mmm. I always felt that the choice of that particular metaphor was important in itself. It tells us something about the experience of God that, say, "Jesus is my best friend" doesn't, and that's why mystics like John of the Cross choose that metaphor. Whether it is meant to represent magical sex with a god is less relevant to me than that it clearly represents a kind of intimacy with God that, the poet feels, is best described using romantic and sexual imagery. Because of that fact, I think, it's relevant to discussion of hierogamy even if the poem wasn't written in description of hierogamy as such.
 
 
grant
15:26 / 17.01.06
Bookkeeping: a great discussion of this stuff has erupted in the Old dog, new tricks thread.
 
 
Daemon est Deus Inversus
23:35 / 17.02.06
The 20 "Rosarium Philosophorum" woodcuts are among my favorites on the subject of hieros gamos. The last two or so oddly enough change to a Christian representation of the same theme.
 
  
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