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Adulthood

 
 
Saveloy
14:33 / 15.12.05
I fancy having a general discussion on the topic of adulthood, or 'maturity vs immaturity', or what it means to be a grown-up. Here are some questions to kick off with:

What - if any, and excluding age and experience - are the things that differentiate adults from non-adults?

Are there any qualities, desires, aspirations, beliefs etc that a person must lose if they wish to become an adult (or achieve maturity)? Are there some things that an adult just doesn't do?

Is maturity something to aspire to?

Do you consider yourself to be a proper grown-up?
 
 
Jack Fear
14:55 / 15.12.05
Friend of mine says you're not really a grown-up until you've buried a parent. There may be something to that. Or I may just gravitate towards that answer because it maps on to my experience—I lost my father before I turned 21.

But I would say that a real grown-up fends for hirself—symbolically burying her parents, even if they're still alive. When a grown-up buys a car, s/he doesn't ask hir parents to co-sign the loan. When a grown-up gets arrested, s/he doesn't call Mom & Dad to come bail hir out. A grown-up does not use family connections to get or keep a job.

The parental presence in a grown-up's life is entirely optional. A grown-up no longer seeks parental approval, nor fears parental approbation, or vice-versa; if it comes, it comes, but it is neither invited nor rebuffed.

That's how it should be: that's nature's way. But there are some societal constructs that seem set up to keep children dependent—and indeed, parents often encourage their offspring to remain so. And so a lot of people grow old before they ever grow up. And that seems sad to me.
 
 
Fist Fun
17:12 / 15.12.05
Not depending on a parent seems a good definition.

I so feel like I am bluffing at being a grown up. I laugh at most things.
 
 
Jack Fear
18:02 / 15.12.05
You know what? I don't know if that feeling ever goes away.
 
 
grant
18:07 / 15.12.05
Poser! Poser!

I'm the real grown-up!
 
 
Sekhmet
18:08 / 15.12.05
Oh, good. So we're all pretending then?

I thought everyone else knew what they were doing.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
18:44 / 15.12.05
Grown ups know they're just pretending. Kids think it's all 4 Real.
 
 
w1rebaby
20:30 / 15.12.05
The problem is that pretty much any definition of "adult" apart from "over 18" results in most people actually being children.

I think it's all just crap to be honest; I've given up waiting for the time when I'm a grown-up. It's just something they tell you to get you to be quiet.
 
 
Jack Fear
21:13 / 15.12.05
Grown ups know they're just pretending. Kids think it's all 4 Real.

Exactly. As CS Lewis said, "When I became a man, I put away childish things—including the fear of childishness and the desire to appear very grown up." It was about at this time that Lewis began to read fairy stories again, and then to write his own.

Or, as I've been known to say: When I was a kid I believed in Santa Claus. Then I didn't. Now I do again.
 
 
ibis the being
21:49 / 15.12.05
I always think of people as adults when they've stopped constantly trying to prove or demonstrate their identities. Being a grown-up doesn't necessarily mean you know who you really are... but you no longer have to go around *really obviously* smoking Gauloises in order to exist.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
22:07 / 15.12.05
In many cultures they take a simpler and harsher approach to the whole business and have distinct Rites of Passage to separate the women from the girls and the men from the jailbait. They mutilate your genitals or send you off into the wilderness to survive off your wits for a month. After that, nobody argues. You're matoor! What are our Rites of Passage?

I haven't married nor bred. I don't drive. I do have a long term partner and a mortgage and have worked every day of my life since university, apart from one day in the 1980s when I was technically unemployed.

My parents are still alive but they would not be my first, or even second, recourse if the shit hit the fan and I needed money (in a hurry) or advice or the phone number of a good lawyer.

I now give many more Christmas presents than I receive. I have no idea what tunes are in the Top Ten. I fear for the sanity of young men whose jeans only come up to their knees. I no longer think there are easy answers to anything and black / white options have muzzed into grey-haired ambivalence.

I'm undoubtedly a grown up but I do not resemble, nor does my lifestyle, that of my parents or grandparents. And it may be Deva's fault but the last three books I read were Chrestomanci books written for ten year olds.
 
 
Loomis
08:05 / 16.12.05
You're officially grown up when your dental appointments are no longer made for you by your mother but by your partner.
 
 
Ariadne
08:19 / 16.12.05
You're officially grown up when you have to make dental appointments for your partner.

I dunno. In most ways, yes, I feel grown up - I'm financially independent, and indeed have been in a situation where I've offered to help my parents out financially. I have a good job, own half a flat, have more furniture than I ever imagined owning.

On the other hand, I've no children, no dependents, not even a pet and I spend my weekends drinking too much or riding a bike. So it's not a very serious grown-up-ness.

And I'm sure Loomis is sniggering at the very thought of me being a grown up.
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
09:14 / 16.12.05
You're fairly grown-up (maybe) when you make your own dental appointments. You're probably an adult if you're making dental appointments for your child(ren). If you are doing dental work, it is possibly useful being an adult, though it may not matter, as long as you are skilled with a drill.

If adulthood comes finally with the death of either or both parents, then adulthood is an awful aching void of finally realising that you are actually alone in a very specific way. This seems to happen at whatever age it occurs and however much you may have the most amazing child, partner, family and friends. Whether one deals with this effectively or not could be a possible indicator of grown-upness.
 
 
modern maenad
09:22 / 16.12.05
This is just a thought, not a fully thrashed theory, but perhaps being Grown Up is about being able to put other people's needs and feelings before your own sometimes. Not in a flouting, self sacrificing way, more a stance of quiet integrity.
 
 
Sax
09:32 / 16.12.05
You know you're grown up when you can eat your pudding before your tea and no-one can say a dickie-bird about it.
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
09:33 / 16.12.05
As a male it's difficult to see how members of mine own sex grow up. They never seem to put away these childish things, playstations and scalextrics still there well into their 30s and 40s. Its still the same games you had as a child but there more sophisticated, more expensive and arguably less fun. This was brought home to me most strtingly when I was invited to play airsoft and I realised we'd somehow warped into our own action men, albeit sweaty, overweight, middle aged action men.
 
 
modern maenad
09:59 / 16.12.05
On a more personal note, being grown up is about needing to moisturise my neck as well as my face.....
 
 
Saveloy
11:52 / 16.12.05
Thanks for the interesting and amusing replies, everyone.

Me, I'm haunted by a virtual model that I've constructed in my head over the years - mostly subconsciously, I suppose - of The Ultimate Adult. It is an emotionless, Vulcan-like character, who experiences neither joy nor anger. It's able to feel sadness but only briefly. It only derives pleasure - no, satisfaction - from seeing things done right. It knows *everything*; it knows how things should be, is certain of its place in the world, can cope with any unexpected situation and is generally content.

Sounds fucking awful, doesn't it? Does to me, anyway, but I can't help comparing myself to it. I fall especially short in the knowledge department. Somehow I've managed to reach the age of 37 without acquiring any tangible skills!


Jack Fear:

"But I would say that a real grown-up fends for hirself"

That sounds about right to me, but I wonder where maturity comes into it - as in attitude, rather than a state? Does maturity always come with adulthood? I tend to think of childishness, adolescence and maturity as lying at various points along an axis with 'absolute selfishness and total disregard for others' at one extreme and 'complete disregard for self and a concern for the welfare of every other living thing' at the other. [aside] Thinking about it, that's pretty close to how I would have defined The Devil and God when I was a religious youngster [/aside]. It strikes me that you could sit almost anywhere along that axis and still collect the badges that say 'adult' (job, home etc).


Tango-Mango:

"If adulthood comes finally with the death of either or both parents, then adulthood is an awful aching void of finally realising that you are actually alone in a very specific way. This seems to happen at whatever age it occurs

That's a weird one for me, cos my dad died before I was 2. So I didn't really experience 'loss' - or if I did then I don't remember it - but growing up I was obviously aware of his absence.


ibis in furs:

"I always think of people as adults when they've stopped constantly trying to prove or demonstrate their identities. Being a grown-up doesn't necessarily mean you know who you really are... but you no longer have to go around *really obviously* smoking Gauloises in order to exist."

I like that one a lot, it maps with my Dreadful Ideal Adult as described earlier - certainty of your own identity, comfortableness etc.
 
 
Jack Fear
11:54 / 16.12.05
It strikes me that you could sit almost anywhere along that axis and still collect the badges that say 'adult' (job, home etc).

So you could. But the badges are not the thing itself. The map is not the territory.
 
 
astrojax69
23:07 / 19.12.05
i have a motto: grow old, not up.

that said, we grow up all the time, as events of varying significance cause us to ponder where we are and how the hell we got there without seeing the big grey building with a florists next to it on the way. are you sure it's supposed to be here? this doesn't look right...


the whole concept of 'adult' is fuzzy and is used in varying ways depending on the context. when you acquire a voice and contribute to your society, you begin to grow up. but you develop growing up as you get more experience. an adult of twenty is different in many ways and in kind to an adult of forty, or sixty nine, or ...

at forty one i still have little real idea of what i want to be when i grow up. but for that i have a fascinating and rewarding job and a network of friends and colleagues and i understand how to navigate the society i find myself in - though it is hard when sometimes ya just wanna curl up and escape it.

is mebbe being an adult when you want so much to run away but you 'know' you gotta stay and fight? there's only you. is it that 'knowing'?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
23:47 / 19.12.05
Maybe being an adult is when you realise that yes, things in the world can actually kill you. Not in the nebulous "you can drown in the ocean" way that's impressed upon kids, but in the way where you get one of those pleasant little reminders of life's shortness and fragility - an unexpected lump in a medical exam, or a car crash.

Maybe you're an adult when you understand that not only can you die, but that your body can, by dint of natural processes, off you itself.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
03:29 / 20.12.05
I'll let you all know when it happens.
 
  
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