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Red Dwarf

 
 
All Acting Regiment
03:36 / 11.12.05
Who here likes Red Dwarf, and what do you like about it? Alternatively, who doesn't like it, and why? Are we excited about the possible film?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
08:00 / 11.12.05
It got progressively worse from about season four onwards, season seven being perhaps the worst. Season eight picked up a bit, though even that was getting dodgy after the first few episodes. Needed more script input from people that weren't Grant Naylor.

But perhaps more importantly it was the only show for the late 80s and 1990s that showed the level of ability of British model makers. The quality of the shots of Red Dwarf and Starbug still impress a decade later, no wonder when they decided to swap it for CG Work for series seven they got more complaints than for the poor scripts.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
09:51 / 11.12.05
Oh, I'm absolutely with you on the models. They are superb. I think that might have been a result of having a fiarly small "fleet", as it were, of ships, but the Dwarf is and always will be a favourite.
 
 
sleazenation
10:45 / 11.12.05
I still have a soft spot for the moment when, in the middle of deep space, they use the time drive to travel back to 1522 - the dawning realization that being 3 million years travel away from earth and without access to a faster than light drive or some kind of cryogenic facility a time machine is pretty useless.

As is pointed out at the time, the atmosphere of medieval deep-space is somewhat overrated...
 
 
All Acting Regiment
11:56 / 11.12.05
I personally like it for the characters. I mean I think there's obviously a bit of audience identification going on between me and a group of fairly loser-ish straight males in space, but they do seem like realistic people in a way, no?
 
 
sleazenation
13:16 / 11.12.05
Well, um no, they don't. They were never the most fully formed of charcters in the first place and they became more charactures, as the various series progressed.

By season seven Dave's key character traits have been whittled down to a love of curry and a 'comedic' excess of slobbiness.

And then there is Chloe Anette. Perhaps not the most talented actress in the world, but look at the mazterial she had to work with. Seasons 7 and 8 of Red Dwarf gave Crime Traveller a good run for its money in the shear awfulness stakes...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:55 / 11.12.05
Seasons 7 and 8 of Red Dwarf gave Crime Traveller a good run for its money in the shear awfulness stakes...

Ooh, harsh words... but true.
 
 
Brigade du jour
14:04 / 11.12.05
I stopped watching when season seven started. When Lister fawned all over JFK in the back of a truck I realised finally that it was no longer a sitcom so much as cheap sci-fi with a few giggles.

It pretty much ran out of really good ideas some years earlier, I think. But that's probably just me responding too warmly to Grant's (or maybe Naylor's) early description of the show as 'the Likely Lads in space'. Cracking end theme tune, mind.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:18 / 11.12.05
It pretty much ran out of really good ideas some years earlier, I think.

Sitcom in space where the big joke is that there are no aliens (or, in fact, anybody else at all) = quite a good idea, regardless of the poor quality of a lot of the lines. Obviously, I was never much of a fan anyway, but the moment they realised that they had no idea how to write more epsiodes *without* including aliens, and so abandoned the entire premise, was the moment they flushed it right down the bog.

That was its core, its one real hook. Taking SF conventions and twisting them a bit to ridicule the entire genre by normalising it. It lasted for a couple of series before Grant and Naylor decided that their having written a parody of sci-fi meant that they must also have the ability to write 'proper' sci-fi with a smattering of jokes. Turned it into the thing it was originally supposed to be taking the piss out of. Rubbish.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
18:24 / 11.12.05
I love seasons 1-6, actually. Season 3 really tried my enjoyment since it got very silly and all, but Marooned was a fave of mine. I enjoy the dialog and feel that the show is at its best when it takes a ludicrous situation or idea and treats it with such gravity that you accept it. Season 4-6 did this marvelously in my opinion. A moon that mimics Rimmer's psyche, a time traveling karmic robot assasin, my favorite has always been where they got tricked into believing their lives were just poorly written video game characters.

A straight half of seven is absolute rubbish (the all Kryten episode and the two parter about the virus are neither funny nor 'gripping' and show that the lack of Rimmer was bigger than they anticipated... and Blue doesn't hold up beyond the hilarious opening bit with the kiss) and I've not watched all of 8 yet because of my reaction to 7.

But please no movie. The jokes were so strained and as pointed out above the characters became so hollow toward the end.

The new DVDs are quite fun, though.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
18:26 / 11.12.05
Completely agree with E.Randius, btw.

Oh please more Gelf and simulant stories... ugh.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
11:42 / 12.12.05
Although it was always clear that Grant Naylor did not care for continuity, the fact that season six ends with a story about stopping the Dwarfers from travelling anywhere in space and time because that's bad, then starting series seven where they, ahem, start travelling in space and time really does take the biscuit. (The only good joke in that episode being the one with Kryten making them dinner out of the dead body because his morality chip's been removed).

And yes, there will always be that doubt, Chloe Annette, crap actress or just bad scripts?

The episode of Comedy Connections on Red Dwarf suggested that series 8 was the last as in finito, end, done. Anyone know if that was the case? Is there an intention to make another series when everyone has the time free, or do they feel enough is enough?
 
 
e-n
13:40 / 15.04.09
Well, it looks like it's time to drag the corpse of this thread back to life along with the show that inspired it.

Anyone catch the three part "Back to Earth' special on the weekend?

Sigh
Such a wasted opportunity. They had one shot to make it big again and learn from the mistakes from the past and they went and blew it on a tired meta-fictional gag, stupid blade runner pastiche (although there was a semi-decent reason for that hiding in there somewhere) and a re-run of an old plot

It wasn't even smirk-some this time around, although this might have been made worse by the lack of a laugh track. It's been ages sine I saw the original show and it did use to have a laugh track right?

The actors all seemed present and correct in their characters but it was all just..tired.
Oh well, maybe in another 9 years
 
 
Spaniel
14:20 / 15.04.09
Last time I was a proper fan must have been around, Christ... twenty years ago! I remember smegma being a very popular word at my secondary school.

Anyway, it's satirical and parodic dimensions aside, I'm pretty sure Red Dwarf's appeal, at least to this Boboss, had to do with the juxtaposition of the comedy with the fact that it was really about 4 chaps (most of whom aren't actually chaps at all!) alone and adrift in the black infinity of an empty universe. It's a terrifying existential prospect that, frankly, makes BSG look tame.

Lots of stories lurking within that set up, but many of them would probably be considerably less silly.
 
 
Spaniel
14:38 / 15.04.09
Thinking about it, all that parody and satire, all that mockery making and tearing down of the human existential edifice just served to ratchet up the emptiness. It's all silly, all ultimately valueless, and YOU'RE ADRIFT AND ALONE IN SPACE!!!
 
 
_pin
15:10 / 15.04.09
Yeah, but I suspect you thought about it more than they ever did.

I did that during "Back to Earth pt. 3", which I made myself get through really as punishment for spending time on the first two, where I thought of lots of those reasons e-n alludes to above, for why they are parodying Blade Runner. None of them, really, are borne out by the text.

I honestly don't understand how it came to be seen as a good idea.

Was BR really an inspiration for the show in the first place, like they claimed in-dialogue?
 
 
Spaniel
15:20 / 15.04.09
I didn't think about it *at all*. I've only just started thinking about it in fact, but I'm pretty sure that I responded to the show, particularly as I moved into my mid to late teens, on the level I've described.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:22 / 15.04.09
Red Dwarf was exactly like Buffy, in that it had an excellent central premise that it threw away after three series when the writers realised that, if they were to stick to it, they'd have to exercise some imagination.

You're right, Boboss, about that core idea, although really it was about one bloke in a cold, indifferent and - with the one exception that he himself provided - entirely empty universe. It carried on with that idea, by and large, until in the fourth series the writers decided to pretend that they'd never said anything about there being no other life in the universe - when, actually, that had been made explicit in a number of the previous episodes - and suddenly alien life was everywhere.

And so was cheap satire. And so was horrifically ugly fandom. And so was a sudden death of wit and intelligence.

Don't know how to progress your own concept? Easy. Abandon it and pretend like what you're doing now is what you always meant to do in the first place.

Red Dwarf did a Pratchett. Instead of being a sly commentary on the conventions of the genre it was ostensibly a part of, it lazily began to take itself very seriously indeed as a genuine part of the genre, in line with the increasing nerdism of a fanbase that appeared from out of nowhere. When you start having conventions dedicated to you, you know you've become a part of the establishment. In a very, very bad way.

That old load of balls about the best comedy being based in tragedy, it kind of worked for those intitial few series of this show. There was a clear tragedy there. Then it became a pantomime and the search for laughs began and ended with the next gurning expression that Chris Fucking Barrie or Scrapheap Challenge could screw out of themselves. Like Jim Carrey, only even more annoying.

I said this elsewhere when the news of the new eipsodes first appeared, but it bears repeating: if you liked the idea of Red Dwarf, but found that it never lived up to a premise that it could have done great things with, John carpenter's Dark Star is the movie that was made for you.

And also a movie that Grant and Naylor had seen a number of times when developing their concept.

I love it, by the way. Dark Star. Not Red Dwarf.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:30 / 15.04.09
What I will say about the new ones - beyond the obvious, which is that they were generally abysmal - is that the All New Corried-Up Craig Charles showed signs that it could, with a different script and different co-actors, have been something pretty special. He was out of place in the bad cartoon that was everything else.
 
 
_pin
18:40 / 15.04.09
They could have had him play the Deckard role, for instance, pulled out of retirement to track down... OH WHY AM I SPENDING CALORIES THINKING THIS THROUGH?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:00 / 15.04.09
You think that's bad, look at how much thought I put into my post. About Red Dwarf! Ferfuxache.
 
 
_pin
19:32 / 15.04.09
Not that I wish to sin further, but I do wonder what makes a good parodic episode of something.

My partner, from just the opening credits of "The Girl Who Was Death" on ITV4 (shut up Randy - it was great) immediately knew the The Prisoner set-up from the Simpsons's "The Computer Wore Menace Shoes". Would you, coming from Back to Earth first, know anything about Blade Runner?

I think I mean that, if you are going to make even one, let alone three, let alone nine years worth of, episode/s a parody of another narrative, should there not try to parody something fundamental to the original, if only to make it worth your time?

Otherwise you just have n. oblique references, some of which may be fine in isolation, but...

... And it's basically this point at which I just give the fuck up. Why bother? Why not just list the pressing issues of the day: Why was Cat Gaff? Why was Kryten wearing Tyrell's glasses? Where was the "tears in the rain" speech? Did anyone who didn't already know get what was going on in the fake noses scene? Were there enough people to bank on knowing the original to get to keep the fake noses scene?

Shitter.
 
 
Spaniel
20:09 / 15.04.09
(As a man that loves him some John Carpenter, you'd think I'd have seen Dark Star wouldn't you)
 
 
Whisky Priestess
12:15 / 16.04.09
My favourite episode was the one where they got stuck freezing to death on a crashed Starbug on an ice moon and Lister burned Shakespeare (after Rimmer could only recall one word of the whole Works) and then Rimmer's priceless camphorwood chest instead of his guitar. That was basically a two-hander and practically perfect. I LOVED it. And the gender swap episode was great too ...

The very sadmaking thing about Red Dwarf is that when it was good, it really was awesome - sharp, clever, innovative and funny. And when it got bad it sucked all the harder for having fallen so far.

Also, Rob Grant's novels are disappointingly shit.
 
  
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