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What to do if a client ruins my (Ok their) website

 
 
Timelord
10:32 / 04.12.05
I designed a website for a client a few years ago and, as I was updating my own site, I went back to it to do a screen grab... and discovered that the only thing remaining of my work was the menu, some type and scans. There have been some additions and changes over the years that they got me to do but it's probably been about 3 or 4 months since I last did anything for them.

What they have done is awful! They've even changed the pages I did to match what they've done on the new ones they added (uglier version of the logo, changed type sizes and alignment, taken off the background image - I assume this is because they didn't know how to actually place a background image). I think the boss's son has been let loose on it, from the look of the work I'd guess he's about 8.

I know it's their site but this just seems wrong. I feel like ringing them up and complaining about it. No, actually I feel like uploading my original pages and locking the damn thing, changing the password so they can't do it again. It sucks.

I can't do anything about it though, can I?
 
 
c0nstant
11:42 / 04.12.05
nope. Not a thing...I hate it when clients make alterations to my designs, but there is very little you can do.
 
 
netbanshee
15:17 / 04.12.05
Yeah, this is a dilemma with manufacturing living documents for people. I hate it when the approach of a project is diverted by less-professional means. I guess I get more upset about this at my job where it usually happens to me because of bad client management. At least with freelance I can set up conversations about issues like this since you can exercise more control.

One thing I will recommend though, if you have any experience building sites that are dynamically driven and the client can use a cms to update content, you can give them a way to keep the site fresh without having them poking around the structure and presentation. It's also interesting when you deliver something to a client that you expect them to keep up on a change. As soon as it's a requirement, they have a tendency to shy away from getting too active since it's work. Well, either that or they actually improve things.

So back on topic, if your relationship is comfortable enough, you might be able to bring it up without stirring the pot too much. I wouldn't change it on them though. You'll probably find yourself in a bit of trouble otherwise.
 
 
Timelord
21:23 / 04.12.05
This guy's been a client for about 15 years and yeah, I'll certainly be having a word with him about it. I was just pissed off as this has happened a few times now with various clients and it means I have less and less links that I can send people to from my site. I look at these sites as advertising billboards for myself and when they change stuff themselves it means I have to remove yet another link from my "Website" page... but I still put up screen grabs from what it used to looked like. I wasn't really going to change the site back... just ranting.

The CMS thing is an excellent idea though. I know nothing about it but, as usual, that won't stop me from learning how with the next site I work on. That'd mean I can charge more as I'm offering more and it protects the layout at the same time. Brilliant.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:11 / 05.12.05
a) Background image? Really?
b) I think that if you've been paid to give somebody a website, you really haven't any call to hassle them about changes they have made to it. You might want to say that in your professional opinion the changes have made the site less attractive and thus less functional, but once you have delivered the code, unless you have it written into the contract, they are free to alter it in any way they see fit. You are entitled to ask to have your name taken off it, but that's pretty much it, I think. CMS is one way of dealing with this, but all that really does is increase polarity - making minor changes easier and maor changes harder. If somebody's committed to destroying your beautiful work, they can still do it.
 
 
Timelord
22:50 / 05.12.05
a) Yeah I know, "background image" sounds dodgy but it was just a vignette, fading out across the page that made the design match what's on all of their printed material. It worked, honest.

b) As I said, this guy's been a client for... actually it's 20 years now I add it up and I've done all of his artwork from logo and stationery designs to folders, brochures, packaging, advertising and websites for his last 4 companies. I know that as a supplier I don't actually have a right to "hassle" him but it's still disappointing to see that he's done something without using me.

Also, upon seeing what's been done, it occurred to me that although I do have rights as to what is done with artwork I produce for print, I appear to have no such rights as to what is done with my files for the internet. A client has no right to ask for the files to be handed over for a brochure and then set about hacking it up themselves for a reprint. I own the copyright in the actual files unless an agreement is made at job commencement to the contrary and I sell them the copyright - which I rarely do except for logo files. They may have exclusive rights to the use of the files but I still own the actual copyright, guaranteeing an income stream from any re-use or changes required. If they want changes made but don't want me to make them then they have to pay another designer to recreate everything from scratch if they refuse to pay me for the use of the original files.

So I'm used to that level of control over my work and it irks me that, for some peculiar reason of law, I have no such control over websites. That's what doesn't seem right to me.
 
 
netbanshee
23:21 / 05.12.05
I think one's approach has a lot to do with how a potential redesign or destruction of a site post-handover will go, with or without a CMS. Picking good clients, if you manage to have that luxury - freelance or otherwise, has quite a bit to do with it too. At the first sign of trouble during client triage, I start to figure out whether or not the effort is going to be worth it. Doing the right thing and attacking the real issues for having a site is important. Building a site with standards-compliance in mind (presentation separated from structure), handing over guides and documentation, and providing image templates for new content goes a long way to interrupt a client from getting the site too botched up as well.

Provided you have things handled and keep communication open, there should be very little reason that the client will go beyond the scope of your CMS. I find that after setting up a good situation, they'll usually consider giving you a call to hash out a potential realign, redesign or to simply ask for advice in the matter. This may seem a little ideal, but I've personally gotten closer and closer to this with every new potential project I come in contact with by focusing on and addressing as many issues as I can from the start. I do have to say as an aside, I am feeling a bit fearless after just getting out of a kick-off conference where I just got done having beers with Messieurs Zeldman, Meyers and Santa Maria. Those boys make you feel like you can do anything web.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
02:38 / 06.12.05
Personally, I wouldn't play the "I OWN MY COPYRIGHT! NOW MAKE CHANGES!" card. Unless, of course, you want to fuck up a longstanding relationship, as that's where I imagine it'd go.

If you were paid for the work, that should really be reward enough. You were paid to deliver a site, and that's what you did. Whatever the client does with it once it's done is no longer your concern unless you want to be involved in tendering for upkeep or redesign work.
 
 
HCE
10:09 / 23.12.05
If it's bad design, you owe it not only to your client to gently but forcefully insist on the appropriate changes, but to the world. Don't give in! Use the old 'you don't try to do design and I won't try to manufacture widgets' argument if all else fails. It is your duty as a design professional to educate!
 
 
Grey Cell
19:47 / 07.03.06
One more thing I intended to add but completely forgot until I noticed this thread again (better late than never...):

Beware of cynicism creeping in. Being a graphic designer myself, I find it's an easy trap to fall into with some of the more clueless yet insistent clients, especially when you're not working freelance for them and they have the advantage of being in a position of authority — "The boss wants shit? OK, I'll give the boss the most professionally produced shit I can deliver, and to hell with hir." That sort of thing.

banshee's suggestion is the way to go: simply don't give them a way to fuck things up, period. Sun Tzu says so too. Though on the other hand, the old axiom that nothing is fool-proof to a determined fool still holds up. (Being completely self-taught in all things web, I'm living proof of that.)

And when explaining it to your clients, avoid the artistic and/or technical mumbo-jumbo, they don't give a toss about CSS or how clever your layout was before they broke it. Just explain how a less attractive/usable site will decrease their revenue, that's something they will understand and care about.
 
 
The Strobe
08:53 / 13.03.06
You've run into a few problems. TBH, they looked a lot like they were coming.

Supplying CMS with site is a useful practice, but also technically harder - and bear in mind what when the CMS doesn't do what it says it'll do, or they can't make it work, clients will go back to dicking around with your code and breaking things. Giving people flat files, though, and just saying "fill this out" is not good practice; even if you've done every page they want, this is the internet, for fuck's sake: sites grow, new pages always need producing, and you still seem to be putting that in the hands of the client.

Secondly: what did the contract you signed with the client say?

You did sign a contract, right?

Because, to be honest, you can't put in the contract "you can't change my stuff". They wouldn't sign it if you did. They're buying not just your time, but your output, and again, this is the internet, design-source is never closed. They've bought your work and they're free to do with it what they like.

Is your name on the finished site anywhere? If so, you might have a reason to be involved (or a potential clause to stick in your contract). You could argue that you designed the site as was, and the modifications they have made have degraded it to such an extent that you no longer wish your name to be associated with it/displayed on the footer/colophon/whatever.

But what you can't do is claim ownership. They paid for the work, they bought it from you fair and square. You gave up ownership and copyright when you sold your time and services.

So it wasn't your website ever. It was always your work. But once the work is over, it's their product. They can do with it whatever they like. Move on.

That was all made clear in the contract both parties signed, right?

Also: you use the phrase "twenty years" and explain that you come from a print background. A lesson to be learned: as you rightly surmise, design online is very very different to print design. In print, you can supply an EPS, JPG or flat TIFF. You'd never give away the original PSD.

Online is different, because all there is is the equivalent of the original PSD. This is not a bug; this is a unique and wonderful feature of the web. Unfortunately, it alsoleads to disappointment - and I've read of world-class guys having their work overwritten, altered, or retconned by global megacorps who thought they knew better. The global megacorps were obviously wrong, and there's nothing they could do about it. The designers moved on. They are still at the top of their game. The global megacorps are the ones who lose out.

Learn your lesson from them.
 
 
mikemystery
10:00 / 25.04.06
Or you coul dtake responsability. Phone them up: tell them you've noticed the "new content" and ask them if they need any more work done on it. You can blame the client all you want, but if you take FULL responsability as the "guardian' of the website, youll feel much better for it. And hopefully get more work.
 
 
Fell
02:37 / 26.04.06
I am adding this reply without reading the others (sorry), but I just thought I'd say that the standard contract used here in Canada by the Society of Graphic Designers of Canada (and I believe the AIGA in the U.S. use something similar) is that the designer first posits, contractually, a sort of first-rights to all ownership.

Essentially, we license the work out to them to use. As we're the professionals, they must consult with us before making alterations. If they want a full buy-out, designers usually charge an additional 30–50% to the quoted price. Then they can fuck it up all they want.

If they see a need to change it, however, you may want to work more on your explanation of why you chose particular design decisions in the overall project. If they understand the potency of your design and the research that went into it, it should, ultimately, solve the problems that they came to you for, no? If not and it was aesthetics they are altering and you can't explain to them the disruption in function now that it's been changed. Has it made it less-functional, or less pretty?

Remember, the woman who maintains Google's frontpage has two Stanford PhDs, and that is one ugly-ass, but über-functional, page.
 
 
mikemystery
09:52 / 02.05.06
Damn you Canada! Damn you and your creative rights! I'm emigrating...
 
 
Yay Paul
12:22 / 08.05.06
I personally have seen this happen various times, with my own and others work, in both internet and print design.

What most other people have said is correct, especially in the UK, if they have paid for the work and then change it after you have handed over the site there's not a lot you can do.

You however are in the special position that you have known and worked with the client for 20 years, you would be able to have a friendly discussion with the client a lot easier than if you had just worked with them once or twice.
Perhaps what is needed is for you to sit them down and explain that everything you have done (logos, print, web), is to create a cohesive identity and strong company brand. If explained in this way, highlighting the fact that you are concerned not for your own work but for 'their' brand integrity and explain the way you have been trying to build it for them, for their 'business' they may just see reason.

As well as the above, I'm guessing, the reason they are either doing the updates themselves (or getting unskilled family members involved) is because they see using you as spending money, money they could save. This, is one of those problems that arises especially if you, like myself, generally don't supply an aftermarket update solution. If you care about this clients brand, as it seems you do, perhaps you could come up with some affordable years subscription they could pay you for updates and/or brand council, helping them see you as part of their business rather than a supplier could be the answer?

Finally as some people have mentioned, CMS is one way to go, however, companies I work with that want and need CMS need bespoke solutions usually coded from scratch, not off the shelf solutions. The cost and time involved in a bespoke CMS usually rules out using it for any small businesses that need to update a few pages a year.

Here's hoping you find a solution that leaves you and the client satisfied, good luck!
 
 
Funkmonk
20:22 / 08.05.06
It may be frustrating but they own it now and your got paid for the work you did do. As long as you have the original you can still use it in a portfolio etc...
 
  
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