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Research Assignment on the Chaos Subcurrent

 
 
angelid flux
00:20 / 30.11.05
Good evening. I'm a student up at Frostburg State University in western Maryland and have had a passing interest in the chaos subculture for sometime. In an attempt to get myself involved a little bit deeper, I've opted to write a research report on the culture for my Emerging World Religions seminar.

Anyway, I'm wondering whether anyone here would have insights as to the following questions... I'm really grateful for any help getting this god-forsaken paper written.

1. - First of all, does anyone know of any respectable and straight-foward sources to read about the subculture's history? Particularly, are there any objective or academic takes on chaos magick that one could cite in a paper with, you know, a straight face?

2. - How seriously are the "saints" of the chaos canon taken? In other words, how much stock do chaotes place in people like Peter Carroll, Phil Hine, Grant Morrison, etc.? How do chaotes respond to the accusations of charlatanry on the parts of characters like Aleister Crowley? How much stock is put in RAW, Hakim Bey, Church of Subgenius, and other more Discordian sources?

3. - How do you feel the internet has affected the subculture? Do you feel the inclusive, DIY nature of the practice has weakened/diluted the credibility of chaos magick?

4. - How do chaos magicians deal with stagnation and dogma within their own common paradigm?

5. Do chaos magicians, as a result of their shared beliefs, have more in common with each other, or less?

6. How do organizations like the IOT function within the community as compared to Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, groups of Freemasons, etc. Hwo does this differ from other "cults", and how is it similar?

7. Any other advice/ ideas would be greaely appreciated...
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:02 / 30.11.05
How much do you know about your subject? How many words is your report supposed to be? There's some pretty weird assumptions implied by some of those questions, and there's scope for a good 10,000 words to be written in unpacking a single one of your questions. Short answers:


1. There was a book out called "Journal for the Scientific Study of Magic" which had essays on aspects of chaos magic by various academics. Might be worth tracking down. I'm actually quoted in one of them, although it's me in 23-year old Lovecraftian sorcerer mode shooting my mouth off about things I ultimately had no real understanding of and was largely inventing on the fly - so would be best ignored. Rest of the book worth looking at though.

2. All magicians who have published their researches are simply magicians who are writing about their own experiences of magic in the hope that someone will be interested enough to take something from it. That applies to everyone from Agrippa to Grant Morrison. The credibility of a writer on magic must be gauged by the individual reading their work. It's not a cult. It's not delivered on a plate. You have to do the work yourself and see what happens as a result. Books written on magic are best thought of as field reports from other people engaged with similar experiments. If you are a credible magician you will come to formulate your own perspectives based on your own results, which may closely coincide with or differ greatly from the experiences of whatever authors may have initially inspired you. It is ultimately experiential.

I don't know what you're getting at with accusations of charlatanry towards Crowley. It makes me suspect that you have a really skewed idea of what the practice of magic involves. Have you ever read anything by Crowley? Go away and read the Book of Thoth cover-to-cover and tell me that the insights and level of scholarship in that are "charlatanry".

3. I first became interested in chaos magic in the mid-90s. It appealed to me because it emphasised creativity, direct experience over received knowledge and immediacy of practice. Those bits are as valid now as they were in the year 900BC. Chaos magic as a "current" did a very good job of emphasising that. On the one hand, the internet has seemingly nursed a phenomenon into being that I think of as "Chaos Magic ™", which in many instances turns it into a really fucking irritating, dumbed-down, masturbatory, creatively bankrupt, passionless "system" with its own secondhand rituals, language, imagery, dogma and assumptions. But at the same time, the internet has been largely responsible for the spread of all the best bits of chaos magic, which have proliferated so widely throughout modern occultism that, as far as I'm concerned, the prefix "chaos" starts to feel a bit moribund. When questioned about genres of music outside his own, John Coltrane was once quoted as saying: "There are only two types of music. Good music and bad music." Similarly, there are only two types of magician, people who do interesting stuff that works and is fulfilling, and people who don't. Genre categorisation is useful for librarians.

4. Do something interesting that gets you excited, and write about it if you can.

5. See answer to question 3.

6. Bunch of monkeys.

7. Practice magic every day for five years, then try and write your paper on it. Otherwise, you're probably just going to write something silly, misinformed and laughable.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
10:52 / 30.11.05
try:

Re-enchanting Modernity: Imagining tradition as a psycho-social concept by Dave Green - which I believe is the essay Gypsy was referring to.

Also, I seem to recall that one of the editors of the "Journal for the Scientific Study of Magic" was doing a Ph.D on chaos magic - so it might be worth you tracking down their website.
 
 
gem
12:33 / 30.11.05
*delurks*

Can I just second the recommendation of Dave Green's article, above. I read it two or three years ago, and it really helped me form my opinions about about the authenticity of traditions, whether any of that stuff actually matters a damn, the place of tradition (whether authentic or not) in identity management and that sort of thing.

Carry on, carry on.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
13:45 / 30.11.05
As far as I am aware, no one has as yet stepped forth to write a history of the chaos movement. You might want to take a look at Jaq D. Hawkins' book "Understanding Chaos Magic" which I believe (haven't read it myself) discusses some of the early groups such as the Stoke Newington Sorcerers who might be considered precursors to the IOT. The main people associated with the 'birth' of Chaos Magic are Peter J Carroll and Ray Sherwin who founded the original IOT in the late 1970s. The first edition of Liber Null was released by Ray Sherwin's Morton Press, along with his own "Book of Results" (recently re-issued), "The Theatre of Magick", and later, "The Cardinal Rites of Chaos". Much of the early CM material was written in small press occult magazines such as "The New Equinox" and "The Lamp of Thoth" and the early texts were only available through mail order or a very few specialist occult bookshops.
Interestingly enough, the first edition of Liber Null does not make reference to the term "chaos magic". Quite when people started to use the term in respect to the 'new' current I do not know, but by the mid-80's, it was certainly in vogue - Ray Sherwin did a presentation on CM at the Oxford Thelemic Symposium in 1986.

This early phase of CM - prior to the publication of Liber Null & Psychonaut by Weiser's in 1987 would, IMO, be an interesting period to research, but probably difficult unless you can make contact with some of the other people who were around on the early scene - Dave Lee, Chris Bray, Charlie Brewster, PD Brown, to name but a few. It'd be interesting to try and trace the process by which 'chaos magic' grew from being a set of propositions to a self-consciously new magical movement.
 
 
grant
15:05 / 30.11.05
Funny this should come up just as an old friend of mine writes that she's reviving an old academic study of magic maillist.

I'll see if they produce anything over the next few days...
 
 
LVX23
16:52 / 30.11.05
2. - How seriously are the "saints" of the chaos canon taken?

I think they are generally held to some high accord, especially Morrison. But this is undercut to a degree by a DIY, "Kill Your Idols" ethic.

How do chaotes respond to the accusations of charlatanry on the parts of characters like Aleister Crowley?

Personally, I laugh and assume the accuser has no idea what they're talking about (yet secretly I cherish and honor the trickster nature of people like Crowley).

How much stock is put in RAW, Hakim Bey, Church of Subgenius, and other more Discordian sources?

In general, I'd say a lot of stock is put in RAW and Hakim Bey, not so much in outright Discordian movements. It should be noted that to categorize RAW or Bey as "Discordian sources" is completely inadequate. They are modern philosophers with an inclination towards magickal thinking. RAW helped form Discordia but is much more than just that. Bey has no affiliation with the pseudo-religion, AFAIK.

3. - How do you feel the internet has affected the subculture? Do you feel the inclusive, DIY nature of the practice has weakened/diluted the credibility of chaos magick?

The web has affected CM like it's affected all things. It's enabled greater flow of communication and coordination amongst emergent communities. I'd say it's significantly helped advance the current, though it may not be so evident just yet. It's also added a lot more noise that needs to be sifted through and often provides a platform for people that may not deserve one. To traditionalists, yes, the DIY approach has diluted the practice. Chaotes eschew traditionalism - one of the reasons CM came to be was as a reaction to the formalities and stuffiness of traditional orders like the GD and OTO. The DIY approach is the core of CM and has allowed it to be so creative and appealing on such a broad level. Yet it could be argued that this has allowed the practice of magick to be potentially much more shallow, encouraging people to ditch the hard work. This is not the intent of CM but is one of the results.

4. - How do chaos magicians deal with stagnation and dogma within their own common paradigm?

The usual methods: discourse, provocation, creative practice, etc... And the unusual methods: trance, chemognosis, drift, invocation - all magickal practices enhance creativity and provide insight into evolving the current.

5. Do chaos magicians, as a result of their shared beliefs, have more in common with each other, or less?

I'd say both. Such people tend to be socially outcast to some degree. Misfits. I think they tend to light up when they find others who are similar, especially with something so marginal as magick. Contrarily, CM tends to be highly individualized so it's not uncommon for people to disagree strongly and create animosities. Hence the proliferation of derivative orders that only really differ slightly from one another due to some aggravated disagreement over this or that interpretation or ritual. This may not apply so much to CM as the notion of an "order" is somewhat anathemic to it's principles.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
17:04 / 30.11.05
I think they are generally held to some high accord, especially Morrison. But this is undercut to a degree by a DIY, "Kill Your Idols" ethic.

Generally maybe, but not that Phil Hine character. Watch out for him.
 
 
SteppersFan
18:57 / 30.11.05
> Generally maybe, but not that Phil Hine character.
> Watch out for him.

That bloke's SEPTIC.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
20:50 / 30.11.05
How seriously are the "saints" of the chaos canon taken? In other words, how much stock do chaotes place in people like Peter Carroll, Phil Hine, Grant Morrison, etc.?

It's often not a question of taking them "seriously" as it is looking up to people who've been there already, got quite a bit more experience than you, and in all likelihood may have written something so influential as to change your life. In my experience when involving oneself in these subcultures a very tribal view of social ordering happens; it would be presumptuous and irritating-sounding to consider myself the same "tribe" as anybody else but those kinds of structures, both initiatory and social, can be very prevalent at a usually subtle but sometimes overt level, especially since there is often the shared experience of social exclusion and a pagan worldview. Once you're outside the walls of culture you look to people who've been there first and made it work, not to deify but to try your best to learn from.

How do chaotes respond to the accusations of charlatanry on the parts of characters like Aleister Crowley?

This is a meaningless question and anybody who doesn't treat it as such hasn't been a magician for very long.

How much stock is put in RAW, Hakim Bey, Church of Subgenius, and other more Discordian sources?

This kind of stuff is great but is often the "gateway drug" of actual sorcery and is usually a way of testing the water (Hakim Bey's in a bit of a different category though, a bit "harder edged" though he's coming from the same place). It's the stuff that one reads to get comfy with the idea of magick, get a sense of humor about it and use as social points to rally with people with similar outlooks. This stuff tends to be very early training wheels.

How do you feel the internet has affected the subculture? Do you feel the inclusive, DIY nature of the practice has weakened/diluted the credibility of chaos magick?

Made it extremely easy to get ahold of information about magick. Also made it extremely easy to do nothing but discuss it online and not actually do anything with the information. Put a lot of people on pedestals talking loudly who don't know anything about anything. Also driven up the price of Kenneth Grant's books and that side of things because people are so hungry for something "authentic," pricey, spookier than your average PDF, not free to everybody with a net connection.

How do chaos magicians deal with stagnation and dogma within their own common paradigm?

Depends who you ask. Getting entrenched and refusing to learn new tricks is the usual answer; or "paradigm shifting" if this is actually done in a meaningful way. Becoming a drug addict. Joining the corporate world.

Do chaos magicians, as a result of their shared beliefs, have more in common with each other, or less?

Usually more; you'll at least find common authors to talk about with most chaos magicians. Chaos magic tends to be a fairly common set of cultural signifiers. Running underneath that is whatever systems people happen to be working with in their practice, which provides a second layer of social "cliquing."

How do organizations like the IOT function within the community as compared to Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, groups of Freemasons, etc. Hwo does this differ from other "cults", and how is it similar?

Mostly silent but still active. Fairly exclusive so has little to do with the majority of chaos "culture" which is a fairly bankrupt and laughable figment of the internet's imagination.

Also please make a distinction between "cult" and "organization," I wouldn't consider any of the organizations you mentioned above as "cults." A good source for checking this is Robert Jay Lifton's eight criteria for thought reform:
http://www.reveal.org/library/psych/lifton.html

Any other advice/ ideas would be greaely appreciated...

Hopefully your paper will inspire you to do a bit of magic, not just research it from the sidelines. The "culture" that springs up around this material is often not much of an indicator of the validity of the techniques themselves, that you'll have to judge for yourself. And good luck.
 
 
Colonel Kadmon
00:54 / 01.12.05
Are the IOT different from the IMO?
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
14:50 / 01.12.05
not chaos magic per se, but there are some interesting observations on chaos in youth culture (c. late 1990s)in "Playing the Future" by Douglas Rushkoff.

he even answered a question I emailed him about it.

ta
tenix

may the wheel turn in your favour
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
15:14 / 01.12.05
Yes, 'Cyberia' by him would be helpful as well, he talks about magick in there, and I think it's free online, or PM me with an e-mail address and I'll send you a copy.
 
 
Quantum
17:00 / 01.12.05
7. Any other advice/ ideas would be greatly appreciated...

Keep it simple I reckon. You're not going to be able to provide anything more than an overview of it in an essay (unless it overruns by hundreds of thousands of words/pages).

Definitely check out the sources given here though (I loved Cyberia for the word 'screenagers' alone) the Temple is a good resource to use.
 
 
vargr
18:34 / 03.12.05
1. A few sources from which you could start to construct a basic history:

PP 5-11 of "The Book"
http://www.717.info/iot/the_book/data/frame_e.htm

Crisis Magicians - Choronzon 999
http://www.philhine.org.uk/writings/gp_crisis.html#orders
 
 
angelid flux
19:51 / 03.12.05
Yo, thanks so much for the help here. This paper is frustrating as hell - 20 pages, due monday at 3, so I'm going at it Gonzo style... hopefully I can get the rest of my homework done along the way.

Like, this subject is DENSE like a mug... it's really hard to try to find an opening where I can actually talk about it, isntead of trying to frustratingly explain complex ideas.

Anyway, though, here are some more questions that are proving to be important as well:

1. What traits do chaos magicians share in common? (Gender, age, childhood religions, etc.) In asking this, I know that you can't generalize, diversity of people, blah-blah, but I've at least noticed a lot of white guys are involved with this. Would you say it appeals to white, particularly british, adolescents and adults?

2. For the mod-type people, how many unique hits/visitors would you say barbelith gets per day? Does anyone have any numbers that might give me an ideas to how many people are actively practicing chaos magick?
 
 
Isadore
03:33 / 04.12.05
1. What traits do chaos magicians share in common? (Gender, age, childhood religions, etc.) In asking this, I know that you can't generalize, diversity of people, blah-blah, but I've at least noticed a lot of white guys are involved with this. Would you say it appeals to white, particularly british, adolescents and adults?

Adolescents and adults, yes; I don't know of any pre-pubescent chaotes, and the paradigm of chaos magic seems focused on those who've become jaded with the dominant Western paradigm. But I do think the rest of your generalization is more likely to become a self-fulfilling prophecy, by which you fail to recognize the presence of non-white and/or non-male practitioners because you did not expect to see them, than to say anything meaningful about chaos magic and the actual people who practice it.
 
 
Frater Treinta
23:04 / 04.12.05
I know a female Chaote from WV who started when she was 12.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
23:40 / 04.12.05
I 'started' when I was 3 or 4, trying to make my mum buy me sweets at the supermarket checkout. Do I win at magics?
 
 
Spaniel
00:02 / 05.12.05
Anglelid, you seem entirely incapable of talking about this subject, and, if your research methodology is anything to go by, any other.

Christ, this thread is annoying.
 
 
angelid flux
00:05 / 05.12.05
I apologize if I've upset you, boss. Any advice as to what's limiting my ability to talk coherently on the subject?
 
 
Spaniel
00:15 / 05.12.05
Read, Gypsy's post, he says it all.

But, in addition, you've pretty much asked for a description of the average chaos magician. You are aware that's a very silly thing to ask for? I mean, no one's mentioned a census of the magical community so far, right? And you are aware that even if such a thing did exist generalisations are dangerous? Assuming that the above points are self-evident, all you're left with is a bunch of "I reckons" from the Barbelith crew, and, frankly, we're as untrustworthy as the next bunch of anecdote toting badboys.

I could go on, but I won't 'cause I recognise that I'm in a bad mood and inclined to be a little too snarky.
 
 
angelid flux
00:40 / 05.12.05
I'm aware generalisations are in fact, bad. I make a point of using specific, *cited* examples within this work. I do want to point out, however, that there's a difference making generalizations and trying to explicate trends.

If chaos magick has evolved, in some form or another out of the work produced by british males based on the workings of other british males, it is in some way a regional trend, which is something worth at least trying to touch upon.

Hence why I'm asking questions of people instead of spouting my mouth off about a complex subject. I've got a genuine interest in chaos magick, but I don't have a long-standing background in the study, which you all do.

Like, I very much if I'm being a nuisance. I am aware that I am an outsider trying to make sense out of a strange and diverse new religious movement, but that's the point.
 
 
SteppersFan
07:45 / 05.12.05
Chaos magicians either have a guilty goth past OR look like 1970s sociology lecturers and, crucially, ALWAYS deny that they are chaos magicians.

Obviously, I am not a chaos magician, though I look increasingly like a 1970s sociology lecturer.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
07:59 / 05.12.05
I am aware that I am an outsider trying to make sense out of a strange and diverse new religious movement, but that's the point.

I think there seems to be friction here because everything you write seems to betray a total lack of understanding of the most basic elements of what chaos magic is broadly about. It's a bit disturbing that you're writing a paper on this when your research appears so half-hearted/non-existant that you happily define it as a "new religious movement" without any qualifying statement. You do know that 99% of chaos magicians would probably swallow their chaospheres in rage if you told them they were a member of a new religion? If you don't know the first thing about something, either don't write about it at all or do the research.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
14:31 / 05.12.05
Well, let's be fair though. There's nothing wrong with researching something you don't know about in order to learn about it, and often writing a paper can be a great way to learn, as long as you're not presenting what you write for a rush assignment as an authoritative source on the subject, but I wouldn't imagine you would be. Hopefully a rush assignment is just your first scratch of the material, though.
 
  
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