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Yoga

 
 
Wyrd
09:31 / 24.01.02
I'm starting this topic here because I've just realised that there's no category on Barbelith for physical activities - martial arts, Gym, biking, hiking, climbing, etc.

Anyway, I just started taking an Ashtanga Yoga class. It is so fucking hard! I'm not giving up - partly because it is so difficult - because I want to get more flexibility. I already go to the Gym, and do T'ai Chi (Yang style), but god damn, Ashtanga isn't easy.

I think this must be the most difficult skill I've set myself to learn in a long time.

Is it just me, or does everyone has this problem when starting Yoga? I did feel like quite the fumbling fool in that class. I guess it will take practice, but I'm really have to give myself a mental pep talk to keep going.

Time to work on my upper body strength methinks...
 
 
Mr Tricks
09:31 / 24.01.02
Yeah... I've done Yoga off & On for years...

it's great & seems to always be hardist when I'm first getting into it...

Astanga is the hardest work out as well... enjoy it...

hope all's well or as well as can be eh?

Namaste
 
 
Lothar Tuppan
14:12 / 24.01.02
My limited occasional participation in Kundalini yoga has definitely made me respect yoga as a workout. If it's easy then it's just not being done right.

I usually allow myself to trance out a bit when doing yoga, that way I don't focus on what a novice buffoon I am.

As for flexibility, from the waist up I'm gumby man but from the waist down (specifically the hips) I'm stiff as stiff can be. A year and a half of Kung Fu and my legs forward mobility and flexibility have increased to where I feel satisfied with my improvement.

My side mobility though... when I try to do splits I feel like I'm getting a nose bleed I'm so fucking tall and I still can't do a side or roundhouse kick above waist level.

That's gonna take me years of working before I'm satisfied.

The flip side of the equation though is that yoga will definitely help you with your Tai Chi. My partner has been doing Kundalini for almost 10 years and she does warm up stretches that make my kung fu instructors wince.

[ 24-01-2002: Message edited by: Lothar Tuppan ]
 
 
cusm
16:01 / 24.01.02
5 years now of Kung Fu and Tai Chi, and I still can't quite do a full split. Oh, my poor tendons. Ashtanga looks pretty intense.
 
 
Mr Tricks
16:44 / 24.01.02
SPLITS Schmitz!!!

some people got it some people don't...

used to be I could stand on a few phonebooks & still hold my palms flat on the floor!!! NOT these days though... ouch!
 
 
Lothar Tuppan
17:40 / 24.01.02
quote:Originally posted by PATricky:

some people got it some people don't...


But I want it! I want it.
 
 
cusm
17:50 / 24.01.02
Some people just aren't 18 anymore
 
 
grant
18:18 / 24.01.02
Ashtanga: (noun)

An arena, usually located in a remote area in a Third World country, wherein crazed competitors yank their own limbs off for a cash prize.




Damn. That CAN'T be good for you, can it? I mean... damn!

Talk about self-mastery....

[ 24-01-2002: Message edited by: grant ]
 
 
Ariadne
18:36 / 24.01.02
Hiya.

I've been doing yoga for about eight years and started going to an astanga class last year because of the amazing buzz it gives.

It IS hard, and even a year later I often come out of a class shaking from head to foot - but I really like it.

And yes, even after doing iyengar for years I found astanga hard because you have to learn routines, like the sun salutes (astanga ones are different to what I'd done before), and because it moves so fast there's no time to think, 'huh?'.

At first I was a bit dismissive because it seems more of a work out than a meditation, but once you get to know what happens when, it can get quite tranced out.

I wouldn't give up iyengar, slower yoga for astanga but I think it's a worthwhile practice. And you'll get there, Wyrd - soon it'll make sense, I promise!
 
 
Ierne
18:47 / 24.01.02
Whoa! And here I am considering the "Gentle Yoga" classes at my local...Och

To be fair, I stopped doing it after my ankle injury, so I know I've got to start over softly. Thanks for the positive reinforcement, peeps!
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
20:04 / 24.01.02
I used to do basic yoga, about two years ago. I started it because I was pretty much on the verge of ripping people's arms off at the office, and needed to do something that'd calm me down - and it worked really, really well, with the bonus of being quite toning.

I think I stopped when the classes moved somewhere else.

At any rate, I need to get back into it - to stop my teeth grinding and to try to convince myself that I won't need to exercise if I'm going to classes regularly.

That's the theory, anyway.
 
 
Wyrd
17:13 / 25.01.02
Thanks for the encouragement guys. I'll see how the second class goes next week - my shoulders and hamstrings are still pouting with me about the workout on Wednesday. Ouch.

It makes me wonder how many people who do magic do physical workouts as well, and how many see the interrelatedness of the two?
 
 
Lothar Tuppan
20:45 / 26.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Wyrd:

It makes me wonder how many people who do magic do physical workouts as well, and how many see the interrelatedness of the two?


I think there's a definite interrelation. Not only do the physical disciplines help with increasing personal discipline and focus, it also increases the amount of energy your body can produce and hold.

My own practice has increased quite dramatically since getting in shape.
 
 
The Knowledge, oh yes
00:26 / 27.01.02
great thread!

I do mainly iyengar with a little kundalini thrown in. I like to listen to music while in my asanas and use songs to measure time. I enjoy the benefits of daily practice immensely. I've never felt more at ease in my body. But i have a slight ill ease that yoga has become such a necessity for me. If I miss more than a day then my demons are back. I also sometimes like to smoke pot while doing yoga. Although I feel like I can go deeper if my system is clean. One thing I'd like to try is practice outside. I'm typically in the dark with candles and incense.
 
 
SMS
01:48 / 27.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Wyrd:
It makes me wonder how many people who do magic do physical workouts as well, and how many see the interrelatedness of the two?


Doesn't KRSNA tell us to practise yoga? I keep forgeting to look this up.
 
 
Perfect Tommy
17:28 / 07.05.02
I am selfishly reviving this thread 'cause of my recent fitness kick.

I can't afford classes at this time. I was wondering if anyone had a decent book/video they could recommend. The one I got assumed I had previous knowledge of yoga ("Now, swoop into Mountain Pose"), which I don't.
 
 
The Monkey
17:49 / 07.05.02
Observation:

Yes, I am a terminology bitch. But with the increased popularity of South Asian fitness programs, I feel more compelled to get stringent about this sort of stuff.

"Yoga" means about the same thing as "Dao"...a term for a way. Literally in Sanskrit, yoga means "yolk" an is what you use to harness a bullock to a plow (neat little metaphorical thing going on there, eh?). Physical disciplines constiture a tiny subset of the larger bodies of practice. What's typically referred to as "yoga" in a general sense by exercise types are systems of exercise codified by various pundits, gurus, etc. The overarching category of physical disciplines are sometimes referred to as Raja Yoga...those dealing with the Kundalini rising, etc., as a means of obtaining siddhi and/or jnana (powers and knowledge) are lumped into the category of hatha yoga (the word hatha, implies vigorousness, extremity, and haste).

So now you know, and knowing is half the battle...unless you follow ahimsa.
 
 
Perfect Tommy
18:02 / 07.05.02
Okay... I'm weak, formerly chubby, but sort of naturally bendy. I'd like to be stronger and more bendy. Can anyone recommend a category of physical discipline?
 
 
grant
18:06 / 07.05.02
doubting: in one of my incarnations, i review videos for amazon.com. for a while, it has only been tai chi titles, and there are a couple OK ones out there. the best i've seen for newbies learning the real deal seem to be done by Claire Hooton, I think. (I had to search to get the name right.)
Warning: you'll need to get the two tapes to get the full lesson, but she does it well, and is much easier to follow than some of the more Chinesey ones.

I can't speak for this one, but you might get something else out of it, though.
 
 
grant
18:14 / 07.05.02
Oh, and the best online (free!) tai chi lessons I've seen are at Gilman Studios.

Might make more sense if you're not a beginner, though.
 
 
captain piss
19:09 / 07.05.02
Quoting Wyrd:
"It makes me wonder how many people who do magic do physical workouts as well, and how many see the interrelatedness of the two? "

Is it also maybe the tendency for Eastern thinking to see less of a division between mind and body that leads to it being a natural foil to spiritual practice. With Cartesian dualism being so built into the Western mind, there's more of a tendency to see ourselves as a kind of ego inside our head, that exists separately from the body. Which tends at first to make you regard the interplay of magick with martial arts and yoga as a bit weird. Aside from the very good reasons already mentioned by Lothar etc.

As for doing it from books and videos:
A slight word of warning to the unwary: I managed to knacker-up my back and legs late last year- developing a chronic injury that is only gradually going away. This despite the fact that I regularly practise yoga and tai-chi. I think a contributory factor is my learning these things in huge classes where you get hardly any attention and can end up doing the wrong moves when practising at home.

More recently have started learning Alexander technique, which you can only really learn one-on-one, making it expensive but you do get complete attention to ensure you're doing things right. It seems to be helping. My problem, I reckon, is having had a dodgy posture for years and spending too much time at a keyboard for my job. You'd expect tai-chi and yoga to maybe protect you from such travails, but I would say only if you're doing it right. Bizarrely, Alexander technique uses loads of the same principles as tai-chi, like the idea of correctly aligning your neck and head (or your head being suspended from a thread, in tai-chi), but just seems to teach them in a more straightforward manner (at least, I've found this).
Perhaps an atypical experience but, with the soaring numbers of yoga injuries that seem to be accompanying the current rush of enthusiasm for these SE Asian pastimes, it could be that people aren't paying proper attention to things like alignment- I'm not sure.

Anyway, not to discourage you- should be fine if you follow instructions carefully, just throwing this in as a nugget of personal experience.
 
 
Ron Stoppable
13:39 / 04.09.06
er... bump, I guess. Feel free to redirect me to a more appropriate thread - I had a search and this is what came up.

I'm very interested in trying yoga classes but know ery little about where to start and much of what I've uncovered looks pretty daunting.

My motivation is physiological rather than spiritual - a lifetime of sport has left my body knackered and I'm sick of hobbling around on protesting joints and muscles when I get out of bed of a morning. Beyond that though, I'm very open to the meditative qualities of physical exertion and I understand that yoga can supply both.

So; am I on the right track in looking to yoga as, at least, callisthenics with grace and if so, where should I begin? I'm based in south London and fortunately there seems to be a good range of beginner's classes offered by the various leisure, sport and community centres but I don't really know where to begin. A friend of mine is beginning her Ashtanga class in Brockwell soon and I'm tempted to join her - is Ashtanga a suitable discipline for newbies or will I have to roll up my mat and limp home after 20 minutes of the two-hour class?

Grateful for your help..
 
 
Ron Stoppable
13:43 / 04.09.06
ah.. re-reading upthread, it looks like Ashtanga might be a bit of a stretch (heh.. ) for a first-timer.

All advice welcomed, particularly anyone who can point me in the direction of london yogis sympathetic to the demands of my inflexible frame.
 
 
Olulabelle
16:23 / 04.09.06
Ashtanga is not a stretch for a first timer, you just need to find yourself a teacher who runs a beginners class or accepts beginners in a more varied class.

Everyone has to be a beginner in the beginning.

When I started doing Ashtanga I was overweight and I managed fine, for example and it's wonderful for you if you have problems with stiff joints and things as well. Ashtanga (in fact all yoga)teachers should advise you of what to be careful of when you are learning and you have sore bits of you that you need to protect, and they'll help you gradually build up strength in those areas.
 
 
Ron Stoppable
08:26 / 05.09.06
many thanks 'Lula, that's really reassuring.
I'm signed up at on a beginners course now - the people taking it seem lovely - and will be starting next week.
Looking forward to it, too.
 
 
StarWhisper
15:30 / 09.09.06
I do vajrasati yoga which is a new and synchretic form. It includes meditation teaching during the class as well which I find can be wise at times, beautiful, illuminating and sometimes leaves me searching and puzzled yet satisfied a mystery might one day unfold.
One of the mysteries is that people are motivated by a kind of thirst or need which is an attachment.(You go to find it because you want, you must, you need) There is another form of motivation which does not stem from this thirst or need.
I wonder if anybody knows what is meant by this? What is this other place?
 
 
Disco is My Class War
05:43 / 10.09.06
I've done some ashtanga yoga as part of circus work, and I'd say it's fine for beginners -- just join a beginners' class, where you'll be given time to learn the flow and breathing. It takes time to learn -- don't worry about getting lost at fist, everyone does. I no longer do circus training, but I find that whenever I'm tense/hunched a few rounds of surya namascara (sun salute) work incredibly well to stretch me back out.

Actually, this thread may inspire me to find an ashtanga class. I miss it.
 
 
Ticker
14:22 / 11.09.06
yeah I took a broken people's beginner's ashtanga class which was lovely and got me into the normal classes. I now mostly practice at home but I should go back to taking classes to really push myself some more. Ah the ever growing list!
 
 
+am
01:28 / 17.01.07
I can certainly empathise with Wyrd's plight. I have recently started going to a Vajrasati yoga class (as mentioned by eirdandfracar upthread, which was a pleasant surprise!) and for the first couple of weeks really struggled with the postures. I had done a very basic beginners course in Hatha yoga about a year ago, which had given me a feel for the practise, but hearing and observing and attempting the postures I felt very much like a clumsy inflexible oaf. I could perceive some benefit in the manoeuvres, as they made me sweat and brought about a mild meditative state, but to my frustrated mind it seemed a lot less “effective” (for what? I ask myself now…) than my regular practice of reiki and other energy work. This practise, while being intense and beneficial to my physical and psychological well being, nevertheless left me feeling like I needed something more visceral and in-the-body, to counteract my tendency to live primarily in my head/brain/conscious mind.

Yesterday however I feel I made a breakthrough and really caught the rays of the sun that had so far been hiding behind the clouds, tantalising glimpses occasionally peeking through. I came away from the session, as LVX23 puts it in the other yoga thread, “floating and tangibly high”. Yet I was also within myself and happy about it, finding joy and holiness within my very being, my BODY, that I so often ignore and abuse, rather than being transported to other realms. A lot of this came through the method of teaching of the class. I haven’t been to many yoga classes so I don’t know if this is commonplace or not, but as eirdandfracar mentions, the method of teaching incorporates meditative awareness into the basic “do this posture” instruction. This takes the form of a kind of stream of consciousness riffing around what ideally should be taking place, with the emphasis on awareness and (lack of) effort. Struggling to do a particularly difficult posture, my frustration grew, my muscles tensed, and I felt the whole idea to be hopeless for me. Then I actually listened to what the teacher was saying, his “If you try and understand this (intellectually) you won’t get it” riddles, concentrated on the breath, went “behind” (so it felt) my conscious mind to an altogether calmer place, and manoeuvred myself into an inflexible beginner’s version of the posture. And it felt amazing.

This method of learning I find refreshing and illuminating. It is a joy to bypass the rational conscious mind that society demands we use at all times and find a different place. To seemingly lose control but actually pass responsibility on to a much wiser source. I don’t mean the teacher here, but one’s body and deep mind, whatever you want to call it. I guess that is what I have learnt from yoga so far. I was wondering what part yoga plays in other ‘lithers lives. Is it a work-out, a physical and psychological panacea, or something even more profound? Right now I just know it makes me feel great, and that is enough for me for now. I’m particularly interested in how yoga fits in with other spiritual practises. I come from a healing background and it seems the perfect addition to my primarily physically static practise. What impact it will have on my spellcasting and ritual activities I am not sure.

I am also interested in Kundalini Yoga. I hear the word bandied around often, and at first it seemed a very attractive practise that fit in with my vaguely new-age practise- let us raise the energy in the spine! However the first Kundalini Yoga class I found in my area was Sahaja Yoga. It was free, and came accompanied by this site of a strangely dubious nature . A little research yielded an opponent site of disgruntled ex-members alleging Sahaja Yoga as a cult, with the requisite sex scandals and financial duplicity of such an organisation. It made very unsettling reading . The next one I looked at seemed a little more kosher, but of course was affiliated with Yogi Bashram the originator of “Kundalini Yoga”, and his organisation 3HO. While seemingly not as cult-like as what is alleged of Sahaja Yoga, the 3HO organisation also warranted its own website of disgruntled ex-members (which I can’t find right now), though it also is recognised by the UN, for what its worth. These cult allegations, the chanting of mantras that I don't REALLY know the meaning of, and the general wary vibe around raising the Kundalini serpent (if done wrong could result in serious illness etc.) have made me steer clear of this area for now. Does anyone here have any experience of this brand of yoga?
 
 
RetroChrome
02:46 / 19.01.07
I've been practicing yoga off and on for the last 9 years or so. I was really blessed to be introduced to Kripalu Yoga teachers while in massage school.

When I first started doing yoga on my own about 2 years ago, I wanted a good physical work-out. Now, I'm more about proper alignment and breathing.

I think that at least American society is so focused on work-out and perfectionism that we often miss the opportunity for the more subtle, transformative aspects of yoga.

It's frustrating now to see (no offense) all these DVDs and classes offered that are so fast moving and geared towards cardio-junkies. What is the deal with not wanting to slow down and listen to your body?

Having dealt recently with several significant losses, I have found that yoga helps me release what is locked in my tissues in terms of emotions. I have greater clarity about what I'm feeling and feel more able to express it.

Just for that alone, I'm grateful for my practice.
 
 
setsuna
04:05 / 19.01.07
+am, I really relate to what you're describing. I kept picking up and dropping my yoga practice, mostly because I was born with my hips turned in slightly at birth, and I saw it as an obstacle to being some great yogi. I straightened out most of this defect with ballet as a child, but still, there are many asanas I may never be able to do. And I had this idea that if I couldn't OM-out in full Lotus that I just shouldn't bother. It took a long time to realize that yoga isn't something I was supposed to "do".

I only have a light Hatha Yoga routine right now, nothing elaborate. But praticing almost in a heart-centered way, just breathing and without judgement, has been pretty powerful for me simply on its own. I also have a tendency to live in my head too much if I don't take time to breathe and feel, so I relate to what you said on that level as well.

My only experience with Kundalini Yoga is a DVD I have that is taught by Gurutej Kaur. She's affiliated with 3HO. There's a little pranayama and some locks, and all the chanting is fully translated. But if you're looking to facilitate the kundalini energy, IMHO you don't necessarily need a Kundalini Yoga practice, and you certainly don't need to adopt 3HO's or anybody else's worldview regarding it. I could be mistaken, but I got the distinct impression that it's their way or the highway with these groups. When I was in the middle of my awakening and twitching like crazy, I called my local 3HO studio because I was freaking out and looking for advice. But they simply refused to believe I'd awakened my kundalini without a long and rigorous Kundalini Yoga practice.

(To be fair, they're not the only ones adhering to dogma about this stuff. I later talked to a really nice guy from BOTA who also insisted it wasn't possible because I hadn't taken their 13 year correspondence course yet. *sigh*)

If you're seeking kundalini, that floating feeling you described after your session is the path you're looking for (again just my opinion, of course). The stories of kundalini gone wrong are pretty scary, so it's good to be cautious - but I don't know, I can only speak for myself. The worst physical symptom for me (so far, I should emphasize) was that I couldn't sit down for several days while it was piercing my root chakra. It's really strong energy, though. Just small amounts can give you that bliss you described.
 
 
EvskiG
15:15 / 19.01.07
I was wondering what part yoga plays in other ‘lithers lives. Is it a work-out, a physical and psychological panacea, or something even more profound?

I'm a big, big fan of hatha yoga (asana/pranayama), though I don't practice as regularly as I used to.

If practiced with dedication, and especially if practiced in combination with the other limbs of raja yoga, seems to me that it's a complete path in itself, providing physical health and fitness, emotional calm and stability, and lightness and bliss.

I think the critical element, as in so much of magic and mysticism, is attention -- here, intense attention to the body, posture, and movement.

(Let me move into the pose. Smoothly, now. OK, where's my center of balance? Is my left leg active? Is my right? Where am I tight? Where am I releasing? Where am I being lazy? Can I go further into the pose? OK, move. And stretch. Aaahh.)

Doing postures with intense focus and attention brings consciousness and life into parts of the body that normally are dead and dull. That consciousness and life creates a feeling of awareness, lightness, and bliss that carries through into the everyday world.

Moreover, intense attention to the body, posture, and movement is like intense attention to any other subject of meditation, and can produce the same results.

Personally, as I've said many times before, I'm a big fan of Iyengar yoga, which seems to have incredibly skilled teachers (who have to go through rigorous training) and a very low level of bullshit. Your mileage may vary.
 
  
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