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The Fountain (Aronofsky)

 
  

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H3ct0r L1m4
22:54 / 02.09.06
and nobody wants to disappoint bowie
 
 
Henningjohnathan
14:44 / 08.09.06
Apparently, this was NOT a big hit at the Venice Film Festival. Both the Hollywood Reporter and Variety gave it bad ("Lady In The Water" bad) reviews despite praising Hugh Jackman and Rachel Weisz(-Aronofsky).
 
 
Henningjohnathan
20:01 / 12.09.06
By the way, isn't this the third immortal (undying) man role for Hugh Jackman? Logan (Wolverine), Van Helsing and now Tom Creo. What next? John Carter of Barsoom? A remake of Highlander?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
02:18 / 24.11.06
wahey! this is finally out and i saw it. I won't go into spoilers yet, but I'll say some general things about it.
-it's a thoroughly unique film that transcends what it is seemingly about
-a very intimate and small story wrapped in a large concept context
-it's more like a song or symphony than a movie - but not a music video...i mean that it's not a linear type of narrative structure. instead it relies on motifs and themes that repeat and evolve and are open to interpretation by the audience.
-the non-CGI macrophotography graphics are gorgeously special
-the clint mansell/kronos quartet score is beautiful
-it's a a really hard movie to talk about...at least for me...my mind is slow at analysis and metaphor.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
08:36 / 24.11.06
well from your description keith, it sounds fuckin excellent. actually really looking forward to this.
 
 
PatrickMM
00:28 / 25.11.06
I just got back, and I'm still processing. But quick thoughts, this may be the most Morrison movie ever made. It has a lot of the feel of Flex Mentallo, the drifting between realities, fictions and mental experiences, all the while moving towards a sort of meta-convergence of existences. This isn't to say that it's all got that level of surreal craziness that Mentallo did, but there's moments in here (one in particulars) that stand among the best in cinema history. This is a totally unique film, and for that alone, I'd reccomend seeing it.

And try to get to it in the theater, it's not faring too well at the box office, and if you want to see more movies like this made, supporting them in the theater, not waiting until DVD, is the best way.
 
 
PatrickMM
00:29 / 25.11.06
And I forgot the most Morrison thing, a bald man in lotus position floating in a glass ball. It's like the guy from Zatanna fell right into this film reality.
 
 
THX-1138
23:24 / 25.11.06
Just saw this today.
beautiful, breathtaking.
that's all. just go see it.
 
 
Jared Louderback
03:38 / 26.11.06
An aside- GOD, Jackman SHOULD play John Carter of mars. That would be my movie wet-dream.


The Fountain was completely and totally different than I thought it would be, but it was beautiful and complex and really better than I thought it would be. My brain is still reeling a little bit, but that bit at the end did make me teary, for sure.
 
 
netbanshee
14:24 / 26.11.06
I caught a viewing of this last night and enjoyed it thoroughly. Like many here are saying, it's hard to verbalize much of what makes the film special... the whole being greater than a sum of its parts.

It communicates on a different level than most film, but not unlike how Solaris or 2001 does. It also reminded me quite a lot of Barbelith, specifically the vibe that emanates from interests in The Invisibles and the spiritual connectedness in the Temple fora.
 
 
alphito
02:30 / 28.11.06
just came home from this. cried the whole way through. they need a little box of kleenex icon to put next to reviews. tho i didn't read any this time around; in fact knew almost nothing.

banshee: it reminded me of the temple too, specifically:

nutrient value of decay: this reminded me of nothing so much as your luminous porridgepostings, for which i thank you many times over...

also, of the fact that the temple seems to be at the forefront of many changes rippling through modern magick, especially the one where the hearts and spirits and minds of people who had been working from primarily one or the other are explosively and heart-rendingly joined.

(is this a spoiler coming up?)
















...datura pouring out of the conquistador's guts in clusters! becoming a green pod in her hand which then changes to the more terrestrial sycamore ball. another artwork in which the green people had a tendril or two. i've finished m. john harrison's light this week which adds to the head and heart-spin i'm in right now.

aronofsky has obviously been a tremendous force from the get-go but the courage to make something this emotionally naked takes a maturity that it seems a lot of masters of the form never reach. (i just happened to have been wringing my hands over a book of kubrick this eve...) coil managed, from 'how to destroy angels' all the way to the quietly shining 'broccoli'...this reminds me of their journey, a bit...

and as the temple is a snapshot of the changes happening in the world of spirit-workers and magicians, so this also seems to be. often i watch older films and think bitterly, "they would never be able to make this now; it's too honest"...tonight i thought, joyously, of how this one could have only been made right now.
 
 
*
21:08 / 19.12.06
I just got back from this, and I cried all the way home, too. Eight dollars is a terrible thing to waste, and I didn't even get popcorn. I made popcorn at home to console myself.

I really wanted to like this movie at least a little, and I couldn't manage it. I tried, I really did. Please read the following as totally unschooled opinion, because it's well known that my taste in film is pretty shitty.

Spoilers begin.







The conquistador storyline made me want to divest the universe of everyone involved in making the film and many people watching it in the theatre with me out of sheer irritation. It was partly that it consisted of not a single remotely interesting character, other than the vaguely moorish looking guy who got killed for disagreeing with the main character. If there'd been more suggestion that the queen was sending him to the Americas to get him out of her fucking hair, as I interpreted it, I think I would have hated it slightly less. Does the world really need another "revolutionary" movie that hinges on white characters slaughtering the bloodthirsty savages, then being worshipped by them when they turn into glowing white Buddha figures, then slaughtering them more? I didn't think so.

The "future" timeline: This wasn't really a timeline, storyline, or plot arc, because nothing happened. The internal conflict was insufficiently developed to sustain forward motion. I noticed that the main character was torn between attending to the tree and the memories, and I thought that was interesting, but nothing was really done with it. I assume that the character was living off the tree as a parasite and that was part of the problem, and that could have been interesting, but again, nothing was done with it. What we're left with is not actually all that interesting to me— Did this guy find a cure for aging and live five hundred years only to still be obsessed with his dead wife? If so, why should we care about his tortured existence, other than to recommend therapy? Preferably of some form other than launching oneself into a nebula in a space bubble rather like an eco-sphere paperweight with a neurotic supposedly near-enlightened being playing the role of the shrimp. Of course, to show (comparative) spiritual advancement we must portray a white person doing tai chi (badly) and levitating in lotus position, because that's not overdone.

The "present-day" plotline: Most worthwhile, but still pretty flawed. Without any character development, we don't know much about Izzy except that she's considered saintly by a lot of people. If she's so awesome, we're shown no reason why she would continue to try to sustain a relationship with the main character, who is depicted as a driven, obsessive, self-centered jerk. The science is gibberish. Other characters also aren't developed— the woman overseeing the main character's experiment is pretty complex, I bet, but we don't get much of her.

The themes: The movie doesn't say anything new, and it doesn't say anything new in a way that is very pretentious about how new what it is saying is supposed to be. Overcome death by making peace with it. AMAZING. American Beauty said that better in 1999. If anything, the movie's novel gimmicks only detract from the message, if that is the message.

Effects: Pretty, but not flawless. The plant bursting out of the ground looked so fake I burst out laughing. It didn't seem like it was intended to look fake; it looked like they were trying for otherworldly.

Good points: There was a lot of good editing. And it is in many places very pretty. And the conquistador dies. Horribly.







End spoilers.


In the words of the unsuspecting friend I dragged to see this: "This movie was brought to you by the color white, and all that implies."
 
 
*
21:10 / 19.12.06
Afterthought— if this movie is in fact much like temple is these days perhaps my irritation with it reflects why I haven't been posting in temple much lately.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
13:06 / 20.12.06
to imply that this movie is racist is the most bizarre criticism I've heard of it. the characters are white. so what? why does it have to be about race?

the movie in no way 'hinges' on white guys (or, ya know, the Spanish) slaughtering the, I guess, noble 'savages'...

I can completely understand people who criticize it's plot for being somewhat obtuse and unresolved, but... it's certainly not a racist film, and it certainly doesn't rely on any racial issues whilst telling it's admittedly abstract story.
 
 
*
17:26 / 20.12.06
Cultural appropriation of the "mystical Oriental" images all over the damn place. If it doesn't hinge on the Mayan people being slaughtered, then I guess the slaughter was purely gratuitous. And of course it's totally natural that the Mayan priest would fall down and worship the white conquistador when his floating Buddha nature soul shines through; that's an essential part of the story. Because we all have to respect the immense spiritual attainment of the white guy who's come to realize that death is inevitable, despite the fact that everyone else has been clued in about this for, oh, millenia at least.

The movie may or may not be racist. The definition of the word is still in flux. But it could not have been made without white privilege. Granted, that's nothing new in the movie industry, but for some reason I found this film particularly galling.
 
 
kowalski
01:52 / 21.12.06
Cultural appropriation of the "mystical Oriental" images all over the damn place.

Isn't the base intertextual foundation of the story the fact that the whole thing has come out of Izzie's literary appropriation of Mayan imagery and mysticism as part of her supposed "coming to terms with mortality?" I'm confused how you can see the film as blind to the contradictions and challenges of cultural/spiritual appropriation when it sites these acts one level removed from its outer narrative. The film isn't about the wonders of Mayan or eastern spiritual transcendence, it's about individuals' appropriations of such constructions in their search of stability within a universe set against them. And despite the wonderous visuals, I wouldn't say it's uncritical of these people and what they reach for. Just because Aronofsky doesn't give you an obvious, surface-level critical discussion of orientalism / (shall we call it) occidentalism, doesn't mean he's an uncritical purveyor of these things.

If it doesn't hinge on the Mayan people being slaughtered, then I guess the slaughter was purely gratuitous. And of course it's totally natural that the Mayan priest would fall down and worship the white conquistador when his floating Buddha nature soul shines through; that's an essential part of the story.

Isn't an essential part of this scene the fact that, having pushed through to the tree of life, the white European conquistador is consumed by that which he coveted? All the characters, including the Mayan priest, see what they want to see and grab hold of things that reinforce what they want to believe, and all of them, having reached that which they have sought, are consumed by it.

But it could not have been made without white privilege.

Neither could the computer you're typing on. But you're right in one sense: the film could not have been made without white privilege, since white privilege forms an essential part of its interrogative subject matter.
 
 
PatrickMM
02:11 / 21.12.06
It's also important to keep in mind that both the Mayan storyline and the future storyline are meant to be the subjective imagining of Izzie and Tommy.

With the Mayan stuff, it's designed to reflect the way that Tommy is hurting himself by pursuing immortality, rather than enjoying the time he has. I think she appreciates what he's trying to do, but ultimately wants him to move past that conquistador attitude.

The last chunk of stuff is all about Tommy trying to overcome death then realizing that it's futile to do so, you should enjoy the time you have. One could read the destruction of the Mayans in his fantasy as analagous to the destruction he causes in his personal life in the present, something that's decidedly treated as a negative. In the end, yes, he does appear as the Buddha to the Mayan priest, but it's a moment that shows the Mayan priest respecting his spiritual growth, rather than worshipping as some kind of white god. I don't remember the exact sequencing, but IIRC, that was right before he went to the tree/through the light. So, he's on the precipice of reaching, if not enlightenment, at least personal resolution with regards to death.

I could certainly see the trouble you're having with the adoption of Mayan culture, as well as the Eastern symbols, but I think it reflects an appreciation for these traditions, rather than an appropriation from a superior place. I doubt any argument could change your initial reaction, but I think the film is a lot less exploitative than most films that deal with foreign cultures. This isn't The Last Samurai, which was clearly a white man adopts Japanese culture and proves himself better than all the locals.
 
 
alphito
02:16 / 21.12.06
i really saw the conquistador story arc as the beginning of a larger one about greed and desire. the conquistador was not 'worthy' and was returned to earth by the tree for his rape. his greedy slashing monkey paw! the datura a green hand smacking down, no benediction. his image of love an illusory queen, of eternal life a theft. later as the scientist he loses his wife then outlasts humanity in the bubble, unwilling to let go, of his love, and of his 'earth'. (as we as a species may have to do to survive.) a hell outside of time, the tattooing and tai chi in space almost a farce of ritual that has outgrown any real usefulness, a farce of enlightenment, a farce of transhumanism. we can feel the most mystically empowered when we are the most off track.

i had no expectations for this film as i hadn't really heard of or about it until it was out. the characters were archetypes so simple that they should have irritated me, but they didn't; the rawness and immediacy of the performances allowed me into the moment. i realize that much of the basic theme is not new, but neither is humanity and we're still always needing help and old stories stay relevant for that reason. extreme emotional content is not prized at the moment in either the more 'educated' part of the mainstream critical media or the underground (at least in the publications i read, and the people i know). people are weary of feeling manipulated but too hard a shell around the soft bits prevents them from getting any light or air and they rot or get forgotten entirely and a culture without empathy is bad at fixing human problems. i thought this came at a good time.

i saw the lotus position shots as a direct reference to alex grey's paintings, so i enjoyed them as a nod and celebration. i thought the knight's destruction reinforced and justified the surreal cheesy wrong-feeling-ness of that part of the story compared to the other threads, and highlighted the obscene racism of that kind of colonialist narrative.

speaking as an on again off again longtime reader but new member and poster, i like the temple so much (past couple years, not just this week) because it has documented the explorations, necessary oopsies, and triumphs of divers intelligent hard-working magicians who seem to have begun with a loose chaos model and have found themselves swimming in and through layers of time, culture, and family, many of which keep their distinct shape in various degrees of firmness, despite the 'it's all equivalent' approach of much 'modern' magick, and interact in surprising and humbling ways. you don't know without doing...you think you're on top of the world, then you realize you're at the bottom of another thing entirely, and this is a process that happens over and over again, which always hurts, but gives hope and joy and strength, and that process itself is the fountain.

ok, got low blood sugar, going to go fix dinner and make yule prezzies, will be back around soonish to continue discussion if/as it occurs...
 
  

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