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Shiny New PC

 
 
Axolotl
10:38 / 08.11.05
I am fed up of my ancient PC and the horror that is Windows 95. This coupled with the fact that it is gradually dying, with a peripheral failing once a month on average, and the fact that I have scraped some money together means I may be in a position to get a new one.
In the sub-£500 market what do the more technically minded barbeloids reckon my best bet is? Last time I went through Dell, who I was very happy with, but I have also heard people praising the pleasures of self build. Should I go through the high street, or am I better off going through an internet or specialist vendor? Any ideas, advice or anecdotes?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:44 / 08.11.05
I've just had a new one delivered, funnily enough!

What I found really handy while shopping was having a mobile phone and a friend (in this case Tango Mango) who actually knows about this shit and is at home online so can check out reviews of each component as you browse.
 
 
Axolotl
10:56 / 08.11.05
That is a good idea. Normally I'd rely on my Dad for advice, as not only does he know his onions, but he loves doing this kind of thing. However, it's a bit more difficult now we live at opposite ends of the country, plus he has a tendency to get carried away: I'm looking for something that I can surf the net, store music on, maybe play a few not too technically demanding games on, with my Dad involved I'd end up with some monster PC with so much power it would develop sentience and that I'd have to sell body parts to afford.
So Stoatie, where did you go for your PC?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:59 / 08.11.05
In the end I actually went to Currys, of all places- I looked everywhere, but as far as "off-the-shelf" goes, they had the best deal on the one I wanted. (Of course, I don't know if it's as good as it should be as I have nowhere to set the bloody thing up until the builders have finished mending my ceiling. But it's nice being able to look at the box).
 
 
w1rebaby
11:00 / 08.11.05
Self-build will get you the most bang for buck and it's really not as hard as all that, and very educational - but you have to be prepared to put the time in. I've always been too lazy and/or distracted.

Dells have got better in quality recently but I understand that their customer support, if you're not a company with a support contract, is still poo. Still, there's always going to be spares around on eBay. I think the last desktop I bought was from Novatech, who were okay, but that was a while ago.

Definitely go on the net. Don't go anywhere near the high street, waste of time and more expensive.
 
 
■
11:59 / 08.11.05
Ideal Computing. They have good prices for self-build but they also have some very nice wee PCs for well below £500 (mine was about £500, I think, and that included a passable TFT monitor). Things have gone wonky twice (duff pixels on the monitor, chip fan no seated properly) and both times they sorted it at no charge and within a day or two.
Dunno if they have a Glasgow branch, but it's easy to get from Waverley to their shop on the 23 bus if you fancy a trek east.
 
 
A fall of geckos
12:28 / 08.11.05
I've had issues with Dell in the past. Some (if not all) Dells appear to have been made with parts that specifically fit Dell computers. The upshot of this is that if you upgrade, you have to go with Dell parts. If you don't they won't fit.

This was a couple of years ago, so they may have improved on this front, but it would be worth looking into before you decide.
 
 
Axolotl
12:49 / 08.11.05
Geckoes: Yeah, I know Dell don't use standard parts, so it's more difficult to upgrade things like the motherboard, but on the other hand they are very reliable (mine is a little over 6 years old & until recently I've never had a hardware problem).
Fridge: Funny you should say that about their customer support, because I found them quite efficient and helpful, though it was just a software thing, and relatively easy to sort.
I am quite tempted by self-build, though it would probably go horribly wrong. If it did work I think it would give you a great feeling of accomplishment:
A MAN MAY BUILD HIS OWN THINKING-BOX, USING NAUGHT BUT HIS CUNNING.
 
 
Isadore
12:52 / 08.11.05
It's a fuzzy area. Generally there's not a lot of price difference between DIY and pre-compiled computers.

If you know what you're doing (or have knowledgeable friends) and you know what you want, do-it-yourself isn't a bad way to go; a friend got me a Radeon X850-XT graphics card for half price direct from ATI a few weeks ago, which made a high-end card moderately affordable. Saving money here and there in such a fashion keeps my new Frankenstein machine a tad bit shinier than the factory issue ones in the same price range, but at the same time, it's more legwork.

The only experience I've had with Dell has been with a laptop, and I can vouch that they do have good warranty service. With a desktop you don't need a warranty, though, as pretty much anyone can rip a case open and swap parts, and desktops also usually don't see much physical wear-and-tear. If a part fails, it will do so either when you first get the machine or two weeks after the warranty expires; so be sure of the return policy before you buy.

Oh, and always shop online to get a feel for the market before you make a purchase. It's also a good idea to skim through consumer reviews online looking at the overall skew of opinions, so as to find the weaknesses of a particular company, model, or part before you buy.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:32 / 08.11.05
I'm havering about getting a new PC myself - the problem is that although there are good reasons for replacing my old one (it's slow, it only has 36GB of usable storage), the only really _compelling_ reason is that I currently own Deus Ex II, Half Life 2 and VTM: Bloodlines, and now that I've burned out my graphics card (AGP8x card in an AGP 2x slot - temporary solution at best) I can't play any of them. Of course, there are other reasons - memory space, having the room for a dual boot, working faster - but ultimately it's all about the headcrabs.

However, is it worth waiting until January? I know little of the world of PC retail over the course of a year - do you get January sale discounts, except on the high street (where generally things are sufficiently more pricey that that makes not too big a difference).

Also, is it me or are the big boys not going for dual-core so far?
 
 
Isadore
15:11 / 08.11.05
According to cNet, there should be price cuts soon due to Intel stepping up production, though they'll probably affect the mid-to-high end more as that's where there's more wiggle room.
 
 
nameinuse
15:15 / 08.11.05
If you go the Dell route remember that speccing up a basic model PC to what you want can be more expensive than buying one of the higher level models in the first place (I suppose they work on volume, and the more difference per-unit the more expense for them).

If you go the self-build route, you could consider getting a dual core CPU (though this will eat a lot of your budget - do you need a monitor and other stuff out of that, or just a base unit?). That'll make desktop stuff really nice to use (as the PC no-longer freezes whilst thinking about things). As much RAM as you can get, and don't even worry about a graphics card if you don't intend to play 3d games. Also, remember to factor in the cost of a copy of Windows XP (buy OEM from the same person you get the bits from if you do self-build). It's really not worth the hassle of having a dodgy copy (besides being illegal), and you only need the Home edition from what you've described.

Either way is good, in my experience a self-build is more expensive per-component, but you can get exactly what you want, thus saving money on not buying needless extras that come as part of a bundle. Swings, and, er, indeed roundabouts.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
16:21 / 08.11.05
This thread couldn't have come at a better time for me, as I mean to buy a new PC (whole or piecemeal) very soon. Like Haus, I feel a wee bit guilty that it's pretty much all about gaming (The Sims 2 and City of Heroes are harsh dual mistresses), but needs must.

Of course, Barbelith being the hipster thinktank that it is (copyright J. Denfeld), I knew that this must have come up at least once before, and dextrous Googling produced this elderly but informative thread. 'Specially liked Oresa delta 20's advice about deflecting useless PC World sales patter.

I hear good things about Novatech, but does anyone have any cutting-edge tips on buying from them, installing graphics cards &c? We're aiming for anything with a good Pentium and around 1024MB RAM... after that, not fussed. All comments gratefully received.
 
 
w1rebaby
17:13 / 08.11.05
Can't think of any other reason to get a new PC (as opposed to a second-hand one) except for gaming. Or geek value. I suppose if you're going to do something really resource-intensive like serious video editing you'd benefit from an up-to-date rig, but that's about it.
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
18:47 / 08.11.05
Also, remember to factor in the cost of a copy of Windows XP

Or skip Windows entirely, and go Linux!

I am quite serious about this BTW - I have now successfully dropped the Windows XP side of this machine for Mandriva Linux, and I can still run Half life II, via Cedega. The only machine I use WinXP on at home is the laptop, which is solely because I've yet to get the wireless card to run successfully under Linux.

OK, so for the latest games, you will need XP (though Doom III came out with aLinux version), but even though I run some games every now and again, it's not really my main use for a computer.

As for home building, I can never see the point if you're not interested in the geek value of doing such things (and I've done it in the past - I used to run a monster Amiga conversion for everything at home until about 3 years ago). Most out of the box machines have the advantage of warranty support, and generally do what you need them to unless you're really in it for the hobby value, which I can no longer, unfortunately or otherwise.

As for brands, Dell have been Ok for cheapish systems at work, though their customer service for our laptops was execrable. I've found the second hand HPs inherited from work are still buzzing along reliably (with Linux!) enough now and they're about 6 years old, if not more. HP/Compaq use pretty standard parts now so the ones I use (including an Athlon XP 1900) have been easy to add new soundcards into for example.

Anyone in the UK is also well advised checking out Morgan Computers for relatively old but still very much usable kit, most of which is factory returns or just old stock (avoid their second hand stuff) with the odd knock or scratch. They're dead cheap and still provide manufacturer's warranties for most items, though avoid anything really shite like Time, Tiny or EZPC branded junk.
 
 
Axolotl
07:16 / 09.11.05
Well I won't pretend gaming doesn't come into it, but I'd never really thought of 2nd hand. Maybe one of more recent vintage would do me, hmmm, I shall give it some thought - thanks Fridge.
T-M: I used to have a massive Amiga tower conversion as well, good times. If you reckon HP are good I may check them out, as I believe I can get a corporate discount through my evil paymasters.
 
 
Yay Paul
12:50 / 09.11.05
"This was a couple of years ago, so they may have improved on this front, but it would be worth looking into before you decide."

Gecko > Nope they haven't changed, I have a Dell and I tried to change my processor fan... Not a chance in hell said Mr Dell motherboard!

Phox > if you want to go self build take a look at a few online guides like this one, clicky (although there is better out there).
Only thing id say about it, is to make sure you search the interweb with part combinations. I.E. X motherboard with Y graphics card, some of them really don't like each other, I experienced that first hand last year.

And also (if your likely to be doing any) this one about overclocking is good too : more clicky
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
13:16 / 09.11.05
I used to have a massive Amiga tower conversion as well, good times.

I knew there would have to be another (former?) Amiga user and abuser on Barbelith somewhere. I really tried to use the only for as long as possible, but the lack of a decent browser and sufficient oomph for music applications and art packages prompted me to give in eventually. There are G4 Amigas now, but are so hideously expensive and still don't have a modern browser I just cannot be bothered any more, sadly.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:28 / 10.11.05
I know this sounds like Tiny liquidation stock, and the Ionix brand is IIRC a hangover from Multivision, who endeared themselves little by shipping a laptop to me with 256MB of RAM missing, but the cost on these things is very tempting...

Oh, Home or Pro, btw? I'd like to be able to encryptr my files, but are there better/cheaper ways to do it?
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
07:49 / 10.11.05
I know this sounds like Tiny liquidation stock, and the Ionix brand is IIRC a hangover from Multivision, who endeared themselves little by shipping a laptop to me with 256MB of RAM missing, but the cost on these things is very tempting...

How tempting? It depends if you want a computer to be a semi-disposable cheap item, or something which costs a little bit more and lasts a lot longer - even for games. If the mobo dies though, which cheap ones have a tendency to do not long after the warranty runs out, you're stuck, and unless you are able to replace it yourself, up for a whole load of extra expense in the longer term.

Oh, Home or Pro, btw? I'd like to be able to encryptr my files, but are there better/cheaper ways to do it?

Pro is generally a bit better, and worth getting if you can spare the extra coppers(1)


Hmmm, you can use PGP to encrypt data as well as emails, as I recall, and that's free.

(1) Though see my Linux advocacy above :-)
 
 
■
08:22 / 10.11.05
Oh, yeah. One of the problems of buying a ready-made is that you generally don't get a proper copy of XP, it's usually some sort of godawful recovery disk that is wrapped in crufty vendor-PC-specific software so if you ever have to do a reformat/reinstall it won't work like you want it to. Always get a full copy with a licence. And XP Home is OK for most stuff, really. I've had no serious problems yet.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
08:30 / 10.11.05
Yes. In fact, thank your for reminding me. I must buy a separate copy of XP before I set my computer up- once XP started fucking up on my old one there wasn't really a great deal I could do...
 
 
w1rebaby
11:09 / 10.11.05
If your machine came with XP loaded but only a recovery disc, you can demand that they send you a proper XP disc - you did pay for a copy of XP, after all.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:04 / 10.11.05
That also works...
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
15:12 / 10.11.05
If your machine came with XP loaded but only a recovery disc, you can demand that they send you a proper XP disc

...or just ditch XP and go for a decent operating system instead.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:43 / 10.11.05
Sorry, guys, but I need an OS that patronises me or I'll never be able to use the damn thing.
 
 
grant
15:50 / 10.11.05
Amiga G4?

They're making Amigas again?

What?
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
16:24 / 10.11.05
They're making Amigas again?

See here for the AOS4 site which is much more informative that the official Amiga Inc. website.

There's been a big long palaver around the Amiga name, hardware and software for the last, ooh, 8 years or so, with various factions fighting over what constitutes an Amiga exactly. ANN is an Amiga (and related OS like MorphOS) news and discussion board which has much of the last few years'infighting on it if you can be bothered to trawl through it.

The upshot is that Amiga Inc are mostly interested in developing a variation of the idea of the OS (rather than the OS itself exactly) for mobile and PDA use. But the bigger desire on the part of the diehard users is for a fully-revamped PowerPC version of the Amiga OS. It's nearly here as a finished product, has been running in Beta for a year or more on G3- and G4-powered custom hardware such as the Amiga One... but I think it's not likely many people in this thread will actually go out and buy one as a new PC[1] as they're expensive and still in development, so perhaps this is better discussed further in another conversation or even forum.


[1] Though I guess it's possible...
 
 
Axolotl
16:32 / 10.11.05
I always think of the Amiga as something that was once before it's time, and is now sadly lagging behind (if it can still be considered even to be in the race): The Amiga OS when compared with the equivalent version of Windows was just streets ahead. If I was suddenly to come into a lot of money I'd love to experiment with one, but I haven't, so I can't really take the risk of being stuck with an abandoned platform once more.
*drifts off into revery about about much loved old A1200*
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:43 / 10.11.05
As someone who knows sod all about computers, but has had Amigas in the past and now owns a PC, I think of Amigas as like Betamax- they were better, but the market standard pushed them to the fringes where they died.

Damn you, Microsoft. And, erm, Mr VHS.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:50 / 14.11.05
Well, it's done.

God, I need a drink. I feel sick.
 
  
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