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Underground > Radio & Music >

Label loyalty

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

07:30 / 06.11.05

Now, I don't think I'm going out on too much of a limb to suggest that the majority of people who post in this forum have favourite bands or artists, and will at the very least check out anything they produce with the assumption that it has a very good chance of being the kind of thing they'll like.

I'm wondering how many people have favourite labels, whose roster is so appealing that they think there's a very good chance that a release on that label, even by an artist they've never heard of, is also likely to appeal.

Personally, I'll always try to check out anything on Alec Empire's Digital Hardcore or Michael Gira's Young God.

In the case of Digital Hardcore, there's a very distinctive sound that goes with the label, and I like that sound, so it doesn't seem unreasonable for me to expect a new release on the label to be the kind of thing I'm into.
In the case of Young God, there's not so much a defining sound (although there is certainly a tendency towards acoustic, ballady stuff as time goes on), it's more to do with my faith in Mr Gira to find music that is, at the very least, interesting.

So far neither has failed me- I haven't loved everything I've heard on these labels, but neither have I ever bought anything that I regretted from them.

Does anyone else have a favourite label, and how do you feel loyalty to a label differs from loyalty to an artist?

08:26 / 06.11.05

Absolutely. I'm an SST Records devotee: that label was THE fertile ground for the underground rock scene in the US throughout the '80s, and without SST we'd likely not have the likes of Black Flag, Husker Du, the Meat Puppets, Dinosaur Jr, the Screaming Trees, Sonic Youth, and of course the Minutemen.

As for today, you can pretty much rely on the likes of Relapse and Hydra Head to curate the best of modern metal. And Dischord Records still throws up some gems (their '20 Years of Dischord' box set is pretty much a testament to the cult of the label). There are plenty more I could name, but it's Sunday morning and I haven't fully woken up yet.

10:23 / 06.11.05

Yeah, I've followed a few labels over the years. When I was younger I really liked Wu-Tang Records and Solesides as they had pretty much their own sounds (to an extent I like the Def Jux sound, but it's rarely done justice as the artists are pretty patchy). Load and Skingraft are both superb labels now (check out their rosters... it's like a who's who of the best in currently unclassifiable rock music).

However, these days I'm more realistic about the number of a label's artists I'll like. I'll always check out a release on Warp, Jagjaguwar, Leaf, Bella Union, Domino, Rephlex, Constellation, Nonesuch or Rock Action, or any of the above... but chances are I'll be just attempting to recapture the thrill of first being blown away by Aphex Twin, Godspeed, Company Flow, Lightning Bolt or Wu-Tang Clan. I sometimes get music that's on a par, so it's worth doing for that alone.

12:02 / 06.11.05

Bomp and Estrus can usually be relied upon for my grimy garage-punk needs-stooges bootlegs, Brian Jonestwon, the Mummies, Lee County Killers, Cherry Valance, BBQ etc..lovely stuff!

02:10 / 07.11.05

I wouldn't say I have blind loyalty, but there are some labels that have so many amazing bands that I'm frequently stop by their websites to check out their free mp3s.

Barsuk has tons of great bands (The Long Winters, Rilo Kiley, Death Cab for Cutie), so I find them pretty trustworthy.

March is awesome. I loved a lot of their twee bands (The Sprites, 800 Cherries, See Venus, Holiday), so I've been checking out their other stuff like Kleenex Girl Wonder, Cinnamon.

06:30 / 07.11.05

i've found out that i tend to rely on labels mostly when it comes to electronic music. i can't keep up with all that's going in there so over time i found labels and/or producers to be a good guidelines for what i like. A TOUCH OF CLASS or KILL THE DJ to name 2 of my current faves.

with rock music i don't use labels for orientation.

Keith, like a scientist

12:53 / 07.11.05

Absolutely. I probably follow labels more than artists these days. I've pretty much bought every single album on Lex Records to date, quite a few without hearing one track.

Other labels I follow are the relatively new Needlework Records and, while I don't buy every release, I still try to check out every Quannum release.

I continuely try to find out about every Warp, Ninja Tune, Alphapup, Morr, and City Centre Offices release.

If the A&R is good at a label, it's usually the most trustworthy way of finding new music for me. It can let you down once in awhile, but mostly works out.

Keith, like a scientist

12:56 / 07.11.05

oh, and, I definitely buy every single Bully Records release I can get my hands on, which are most commonly in the form of 7" instrumental hip-hop, although they have lately branched out into full albums. One of those labels that is must have for me.

13:06 / 07.11.05

I'm not sure I'd ever buy an album for full price from the shops simply on the basis of the label, but to the discerning eye they can definitely provide a pretty good quality guide, especially in terms of genre-specific labels;

eg; if a garage-punk record is on Estrus, you know it's gonna be a good garage-punk record. If an avant/doom metal record is on Southern Lord, you know it's gonna be a good avant/doom metal record. Etc.

I guess most contemporary genres/'scenes' have at least one inscrutably great label, the owners of which fans can instinctively trust to know their shit and deliver the goods.

But then having said that, a lot of the time the best labels can be ones which don't stick to one style but flail around eccentrically and don't always get it right, but can throw some really interesting stuff out there that you might not otherwise get to hear. Eg; FatCat, Pickled Egg, Tzadik, Jagjaguar..

13:22 / 07.11.05

I'm not sure if this counts as threadrot or not - but its in the same ballpark so i'll fire away in this thread.

I hate with a passion record shops that file things by the label- basically cos i haven't got a clue which label most bands are on- and largely don't care.

Trying to find the Clap Your Hands Say Yeah album in selectadisc pissed me off so much i bought it at an inflated price in virgin. How the hell am i supposed to know what label a band is on- its the music i like not the company that pressed it, gah! Buying a record should involve looking for the band name - alphabetical order please! in this case in the C section for clap... then purchasing the desired record- i don't want or need to know teh subgenre/ label / producer- just file it by its damn name...

The rough trade shop is always particularly baffling- as are many many dance music shops and i was also told of a very confusing (now defunct) hip hop shop in Brighton when discussing this with a friend- its also fairly humilating having to queue and ask where they have put something cos you don't know the label etc etc...

Is it just me that hates this?

I do understand the ethos behind buying stuff on the same label - certain labels have their own sound and by following the label you probably have similar taste to their A&R- I don't think i've ever had a label that i've utterly fallen in love with.

Rough Trade the label has had a good output over the last five years but i still don't think i'd buy one of their records without at least a recommendation or listen- for every Arcade Fire/ sufjan Stevens there is a Libertines or Babyshambles which really doesn't interest me.

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:21 / 07.11.05

Oh God, Selectadisc is awful for that, Copey, you have my sympathy - especially 'cos they have about 6 different ways of grouping things. A standard A-Z section (how 'mainstream' something has to be to be in here = not specified) 'new releases' section (length of time from something being released until it is filed in the main A-Z section = not specified). A whole bunch of smaller racks by genre (where genre is very debatable, eg 'US indie', 'US punk' etc). Those racks in turn then broken up into labels EXCEPT also into specific bands AND other sub-genres. Oh, the cocks. Shop elsewhere on Berwick Street if you can.

22:44 / 07.11.05

That's the charm of Selectadisc. I go there to browse.

How could I have forgotten Tzadik?

The Return Of Rothkoid

01:49 / 08.11.05

I'm a big Tzadik fan, but I've gone off them a little of late. Perhaps it was all the 50th Birthday releases, but I started to think that they were marking time a little much. Still, I'll at least have a listen to most things that come out on it, if only to cement my feeling that I was right about not getting the 45633545th Masada release.

I'll listen to (and get) almost anything on Spooky Records, or that's been licensed by Stomp over here. Also, Warp and Estrus - as well as Gearhead - will get first dibs on pocketmoney, while I think it's almost mandatory for me to buy anything that comes out on Anchor & Hope these days...

23:42 / 08.11.05

Yeah, Selectadisc for browsing... if you've got the time... (That's a pretty accurate description of their filing whims, Petey) but they're still one of the cheapest shops, so... Rough Trade are indeed almost equally as baffling and quite expensive, but more fun to browse (I usually find and want loads, so buy either lots or nothing, depending on how rich I feel).

I've had label love for Domino and Warp in the past. These days Leaf, Lex, Kranky and the like keep me interested. Have to agree with Rizla on the whole: some labels will deliver the expected goods, others strive to surprise and delight. Must add another voice for Pickled Egg, if only cos I know the owner, but I've just enjoyed a great gig tonight with the cream of the roster (and associated artists) - Nalle, George, A Hawk and a Hacksaw. Independence: Yay!

--

05:00 / 09.11.05

Susan Lawly, Industrial Records, Mute, Factory, Alternative Tentacles, and so on...

06:31 / 09.11.05

Great contribution, Sypha.

06:48 / 09.11.05

I used to find labels very useful when buying dance music 12-inches. The sheer volume of new releases, the sheer quantity of unknown artists, and the nature of mixed DJ sets, meant that the chances of you actually having heard a record, or knowing what a record was called, or who it was by, even if you had heard it, was pretty remote. I'd regularly go into music shops, fly through the racks, and have absolutely no idea about any of it - and for a time there I was reasonably well informed. Labels were one of the only ways of navigating the maze, as each tended to stick rigidly to the same genre (often sub-genre) and ethic (avant-garde, old skool, dance floor, etc...). In fact, I often felt as if the enormous number of small labels produced an almost band-like consistency in their individual output.

lord nuneaton savage

09:56 / 09.11.05

Yeah, that was certainly the case with Moving Shadow back in their heyday.

I used to buy a lot of stuff on Sub Pop. Particularly the Singles Club 7"s and 12"s that they used to put out. All of them were very desirable items in their own right, even if the bands weren't particularly hot (Pond, anyone?). You don't see small labels bringing out limited vinyl so much anymore. Unfortunately The cost is somewhat prohibitive.

Red Cross Iodized Salt

14:49 / 09.11.05

I'd say most people who regularly purchase dance music on 12" are more likely to be devoted to labels than artists. Many labels are dedicated to a particular sound (although my feeling is that this is less the case now) and while who produced or remixed a track will be an important factor in deciding what to bring to the listening post, stuff in specialist shops is more often than not organized by label. I was a particular fan of Underground Resistance, Guidance, Planet E, BNR and Purposemaker (among many others) for a couple of years and probably ended up with complete catalogs of most of those labels. These days I'll always check new releases on Perlon, Disko B, Planet Mu and Hot Flush, but probably tend to look for production credits first. Probably ‘cause I don’t purchase quite as much new music now as I used to.

Back in my indie music buying days I was a huge fan of Homestead, SST, Blast First, Dischord, Shimmy Disc. I even had t-shirts.

Red Cross Iodized Salt

14:54 / 09.11.05

Oops. Just noticed that Boboss already made all the points I was trying to about dance 12"s and more...must. read. threads. more. carefully. before. responding.

16:12 / 09.11.05

Yup and I often find something I wouldn't have considered otherwise. I tend to be interested in most of the releases from Schematic, Chocolate Industries, Eastern Developments, Jewelled Antler, and tUMULt. Each of them have stinkers in their catalogs but the ratio of bad to good/excellent is pretty satisfactory to this listener.

21:58 / 09.11.05

Here's a question to spin this topic off in a slightly different direction: to what degree would you view the importance of a label's geographic specificity?

The genre thing has already been covered - there are dance labels, there are rock labels, experimental labels, noise labels, etc. etc. - but from my experience a lot of labels exist not just to curate a particular sound or range of sounds, but to showcase a particular city or town or scene or whathaveyou. I can cite a few examples of this: SST was a So-Cal/South Bay label in its formative years; Sub Pop of course was all about Seattle, but not anymore; Factory still means Manchester; Dischord is all DC, and emphatically so; I guess Chemikal Underground could be counted here, too. I'm sure there are plenty more that I'm missing.

I only bring it up because this appears to be an age where geography is becoming redundant, if it isn't already, when it comes to music. It seems like bands don't even gig around anymore; they just stick up their songs on MySpace or whatever. Is something being lost here? Or was there anything there to lose in the first place? (I would imagine this isn't so much the case with electronic music labels, for instance, as their abstraction from the popular music tradition would indicate.)

Any thoughts?

07:12 / 10.11.05

Hmm, without examing my thoughts too much, I would've thought that consumers who make a fuss about regional specifity are, more often than not, just responding to a particular mode of branding, and that labels that sell themselves as regionally specific are using regionality as a branding tool (whether they're aware of it or not). Whether anything is lost or not is another question, which I don't really feel equipped to answer.

For the record, I'd like to ask all those who are simply listing labels wot dey like, to cease and desist. As I've said elsewhere, no one cares (why the fuck would they?) and, that being the case, why tell us in the first place?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

07:42 / 10.11.05

Boboss- totally. I didn't have a list thread in mind when I started this. The examples I gave had more to to with my different reasons for treating labels as if they were bands for the purposes of buying records- whether it's a distinctive sound or whether you trust the person or people responsible for choosing to sign bands you may not have heard of.

The geography question's kind of interesting, though I'm never too much concerned with where my music physically originates- yes, almost another form of branding, and has more to do with perceived "scenes"- the whole "Madchester" thing with Factory, for example. If there's a period of great creativity in a particular area, as was the case then, then WHILE THAT LASTS the likelihood of many of the bands involved being on similar labels is gonna be quite high.

(I don't, for example, get the same thing happening with publishers of books- even the smaller ones usually carry too wide a range of stuff to be able to use their name on the spine as a guarantee of quality. I'd say Arkham House are an exception, but their remit is very limited indeed).

08:03 / 10.11.05

To veer slightly off-topic, I'm very interested in the creation of scenes: how they form, who benefits, etc...
It seems to me that whilst certain towns and cities can, at certain times, operate as crucibles for the music of the moment, the music industry (I'm definitely including the press here) does have a vested interest in the production of musical scenes that goes beyond simply getting 'mazing toons to the people. Crucially, I think scenes operate in a similar way to genres in that they offer a particular kind of guarantee to the consumer - that this is this is the kind of stuff they know and like.

lord nuneaton savage

10:40 / 11.11.05

The only labels I buy regularly these days are Free Jazz labels from the 60s and 70s. Particularly ESP-disc and BYG-Actuel. There is something about the uniformity of the sleeves and the almost crude, handcrafted element (particularly with ESP) that makes them look great sitting on a shelf next to each other. Real care is taken over the presentation of each album, with lovely gatefold sleeves and the like, plus superb inner sleeve pictures of righteous dudes in dashikis blowing molten fire from their horns. Gets me excited just thinking about it.

I'm not saying that I listen to all of these albums regularly (although some of them are real favourites) but the sheer desirability of them brings out the urge in me to "collect the set", so to speak.

The other label that I buy almost religiously is the mighty Soul Jazz. If they release a compilation (especially a funk, reggae or jazz one) then you know, without even having to look at a tracklisting, that it will have been compiled, sequenced and annotated with extreme care and love by people who know what they are talking about. These comps are a route into scenes and styles for a lot of people. I wouldn't have half the amount of funk in my collection if it hadn't been for their almighty "New Orleans Funk" triple LP (for the price of a single LP, no less!). A superb label who show no signs of stopping. God bless their cramped, cratedigging fingers.

21:50 / 22.11.05

My favorites are 4AD, Pork, and Touch N Go. I'm a bit surprised that buying by label isn't more common, at least for the smaller labels who have a definite 'house sound'.

22:10 / 22.11.05

Ah, another list begins...

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:15 / 22.11.05

Yeah. Wanna tell us why?

23:01 / 22.11.05

Because lists are really interesting.

Oh, you meant...

08:35 / 24.11.05

After watching Dig yesterday, I was struck an interesting titbit of information let slip by an A&R guy. Apparently 9 out of 10 bands make no money for their label, therefore labels rely on that 1 in 10 to really rake it in. Anyone know more about this? Can this be true of smaller labels? Can small labels absorb that kind of loss and survive?

It puts a very different spin on my friends' attempts to get labels off the ground.

16:10 / 25.01.06

I used to be a huge fan of Dischord but slowly came to realise that most of the band's on it were a huge take off of their signature band Fugazi. I guess that's the problem of having a label based strictly on one small scene in Washington DC, particularly now that most of their bands are aging and/or becoming quite revisionist in their attitude - particularly in packaging.

Q and not U were quite a step forward - split up now though. Does anyone else find labels which establish a particular identity run the risk of pigeonholing themselves wthin particularly limited boundaries?

Nowadays I'm quite a fan of VP records for the general quality of the packaging (as opposed to other reggae labels like Jet Star, who can be quite appalling) as well as because pretty much every relevant singjay seems to put out their best work through them. Sizzla in his Xterminator phase was one and now Junior Kelly who seems to have taken up the mantle of his positive conscious side.

11:14 / 01.02.06

Doh! Sorry about that.

4AD: The place to go for music that can sound a little spooky at times, like His Name Is Alive, or smartly rockist, like the Pixies. Almost always with great packaging design by Vaughan Oliver. Although the artist produce a wide range of music, there is a definite house sound. They did a Mountain Goats album that polished the band's ordinarily lo-fi sound without, in my opinion, ruining it.

http://www.fedge.net/~desiderata/4ad20.html

Pork: I'm afraid I don't know anything about who or what is behind this label, I only know that favorite electronica artists such as Heights of Abraham are on the label, and I have previously bought albums on the strength of the label alone and never been displeased. If that's not enough inofrmation, I can ask to have my posts edited to remove the reference to this label.

http://www.pork.co.uk/framesets/vinylframe.htm

Touch N Go: Another label with a distinct house sound, in this case a raw and unhappy one. They are, I believe, a sort of middle-sized label that would bring the work of very small labels to a wider audience. I oftened learned about bands from the liner notes in other albums, and miss the practice of including writing (other than lyrics & thank you lists) in liners. Touch N Go discoveries include the Butthole Surfers, Scratch Acid, Big Black, and Slint.

http://www.tgrec.com/catalog/index.php

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

17:02 / 01.02.06

That's more like it!

Isn't it more fun like that as well?

With you on the 4AD stuff, although I tend to focus on 4AD releases from a more specific timeframe- much as I love the Pixies, post-Pixies I think the label started losing its distinctive sound (that whole Cocteaus, Dead Can Dance, TMC thing) a little. Or maybe just diversifying a bit more- not a bad thing, just meant I no longer felt confident I'd know what I was getting unless I already knew the artist.

10:19 / 02.02.06

As I've read this thread, I've realised how many labels I actually have relied upon when buying an album by an artist I've not heard. The ones that come to mind are 4AD, Good Looking, Warp, Ninja Tunes, Leaf, Space Age Recordings and Mille Plateaux.