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Anyone familiar with the Albano-Waite tarot deck?

14:33 / 01.11.05

I've only messed around with the tarot for five or so years, and have been limited to the "standard" Rider-Waite deck. I just discovered this cool deck, released in 1968. Sure, you could argue that it's just the "same old" Rider-Waite deck, only with more garrish colors, but I think it's pretty darn cool. It's like the psychedelic '60s version of the tarot. I got my pack the other day, and they look even better in real life -- gotta love the all-red Knight of Pentacles!

A few images of the deck can be found HERE.

All Acting Regiment

15:21 / 01.11.05

Certainly it's a good thing if the colours make the meanings more powerful- on the other hand, the colours do matter to some extent. Do you find that these more garish colours actually alter the meanings of cards?

15:26 / 01.11.05

I think the use of colour in the Pamela Smith deck is really integral to its interpretation. Look at the usage of red in the minor arcana and what it seems to represent, look at how yellow is used. If you get rid of that to make it look more "trippy" then you're missing out on a chunk of the deck's meaning.

15:44 / 01.11.05

I KNEW my initial post failed to include a key point -- it's claimed that the colors in Albano's deck are more occult-oriented than Coleman's originals. For example, the court cards are re-colored to reflect the elements with which they have been traditionally identified.

This site goes into loving detail on the Albano deck, including information on how the colors are an improvement upon the original Rider-Waite:

More information on the Albano-Waite Deck

But beyond that, aren't those colors purty? Or maybe I've just read "Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test" too many times.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

16:18 / 01.11.05

I'm always extremely wary of jazzed-up Tarots in general. I guess there's nothing wrong with getting hold of an attractive deck purely as an aesthetic object, but a deck that is tweaked for the sake of tweakage is less than helpful. (And don't get me started on the various attempts to superimpose unrelated systems onto the Tarot--Rune/Tarot hybrids and the like. I tend to hulk out and break things.)

All Acting Regiment

16:57 / 01.11.05

I certainly had doubts about the "Mythic" deck I once saw- it was the Tarot, but full of ancient Greek tropes. There was also a buddhist one.

What strikes me is that if you're combining the tarot and something else, you're effectivley not making a Tarot anymore- yet people seem bound to hook up their creations to the pre-existing Tarot tradition instead of labelling their project as a something new, which has the effect of doing the Tarot a disservice.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

17:23 / 01.11.05

I'm a little dubious about the idea of a red Knight of Pentacles--was there a rationale behind that choice of colour?

17:31 / 01.11.05

I wouldn't say the Alabano-Waite is a deck that's been tripped-out for no other reason than to make it look more snazzy. In fact, you could argue that the original Rider-Waite Coleman deck is lacking, itself. Several things are listed as hampering it, from Waite "honoring" his Golden Dawn oaths and withholding certain images from each card, to coloring problems with the printing press, to Coleman possibly not understanding Waite's descriptions at times.

It seems the Albano-Waite was an effort to "correct" the original Rider in certain places, while at the same time make it a bit more aesthetically pleasing, especially to those zoned-out heads of the late '60s (I'd say the Albano-Waite would be the perfect tarot deck to flip through while blasting one of Can's early albums, say "Monster Movie").

For me, "problem" tarot decks that negate the tarot's purpose would be those decks made for no other purpose than because the creator thinks they would be cool. Like, "Hey, let's make a Buffy the Vampire Slayer deck!" For instance, a long time ago there was a thread on here about a tarot deck based on Morrison's The Invisibles. (Unfortunately the link in that thread, which supposedly was of pictures of this deck, is dead.) While I'd love to see this deck, what use would it be? "Look, you got the King Mob card!" That's great, but what does it mean? What archetypal concepts does it imply, especially for someone unfamiliar with The Invisibles?

I'd say the important thing is that, yes, the Albano-Waite does invoke a different feel than the standard Rider-Waite. The garish/psychedelic colors give the deck much more of an otherworldly feel -- something I'd say should be integral to any good tarot deck.

17:40 / 01.11.05

Mordant, the suit cards in the Albano deck are colored to reflect the elements that particular suit is associated with. Pentacles were traditionally associated with Earth, so Albano gave their backgrounds a greenish hue, and made the clothing of each Pentacle court figure purplish/red. This results in some very interesting color schemes. Check out the link I posted above for more info.

18:07 / 01.11.05

a couple of years back dc-vertigo put out their own tarot, transcribing a dc characters in the court and major arcana, while more memorable scenes from mid-80's vertigo comics taking the place of the minor arcana. has anyone tried working with that?

10:40 / 02.11.05

I've got the Vertigo deck, it's not much cop. It looks lovely but it's a comic-fan product rather than a workable deck.

Gotta go with Gypsy on this, the colour symbolism in Smith's deck is deliberate and complex. For example the yellow sky is behind the 'lucky' cards, the magicians robes are red and white for a specific reason etc.

Also euw! ugly colours! no me gusta!

12:09 / 02.11.05

Coleman possibly not understanding Waite's descriptions at times.

Bit of a tangent, but I think that Pamela Coleman Smith's contributions to the "Rider Waite" deck far outweigh the input of A.E.Waite, and not just because she actually drew the thing. For instance, when you discover a little more about the artist and her background, that she was a bisexual African-American lady with roots in Trinidad, a collector of West African and African Diaspora folklore, and a renowned storyteller – it puts a slightly different slant on your understanding of her work and her contributions.

Waite limited his instructions for the Minor Arcana to a couple of hastily scribbled lines per card. He didn't seem particular interested. Yet the Minor Arcana of Smith's deck is the most vibrant, interesting and mysterious aspect of it. Not least because it was the first ever deck to pictorially represent the Minor cards with figurative illustrations. All other decks that have pictures for the pip cards are following Smith's lead. That's quite a contribution, but where was she getting it from, if not from grand, white, privileged, male occultist Arthur Edward Waite?

That question is generally answered with things like "oh, she probably just made it up" or "it was instinctive". Not allowing for the fact that Smith could well have been drawing on magical influences and imagery other than the Golden Dawn to create her curious, beautiful, enigmatic deck. If you look for it, it is definitely there. Compared with the mysteries of the Minor Arcana, I think the Major cards seem quite stiff and don't seem to have quite the same vibrancy as the cards that Waite had little to no involvement in. I think the Minor Cards are largely responsible for the deck's popularity and longevity. Pity the deck is named after its publisher and the guy who commissioned it, while its artist died poor and unknown in her lifetime and was buried in a paupers grave.

12:45 / 02.11.05

I agree, Gypsy. It's a shame this deck is known by the publisher's name, and I admit I have taken my part in perpetuating the myth by always refering to it as the Rider-Waite. Probably The Coleman-Waite would be a better name for it.

I have read many different things about the creation of the deck, and there have been a few accounts that Waite's instructions at times were too cryptic/ill-written for Coleman to grasp, so she did her own thing. Regardless, I'd say her cards are still the benchmark -- most cards released in successive decades were just based off of her designs (ie the Morgan-Greer -- the hippy deck if there ever was one!).

The printing plates for the Coleman deck were destroyed in the London Blitz, but in the late '70s the Original Rider-Waite was released, which copied the colors from Waite's still-existing original deck:

The Original Rider Waite

So it could be argue that THIS deck is the "correct" Coleman-Waite tarot...though I still prefer the Albano-Waite!!

14:50 / 03.11.05

I think the Minor Cards are largely responsible for the deck's popularity and longevity.

Abso-frickin-lutely, the innovation in the Coleman-Smith deck is due to her influence not his. Have you read his commentary on the deck? Mostly implausible nonsense.

I like to think you can tell the bits Waite gave instructions on, but the joy of the deck is in the detail, the style and especially the minor arcana pictures.

Here's an example- in the two of swords, the picture is totally symmetrical (blindfolded woman holding two swords) except for the moon offset in the background. The card is about difficult decisions which your brain can't resolve, when you must rely on intuition (the moon, do you see?) to tip the balance. Genius.
Do you think Waite told her to do that? I think he probably said 'a woman holding two swords' or maybe 'Two swords Pamela, you work out the rest'.

14:54 / 03.11.05

The 'original' deck is kind of the anti-Albano deck, all muted colours- I like it better understated but there you go.

15:03 / 03.11.05

OT

I've got the Vertigo deck, it's not much cop. It looks lovely but it's a comic-fan product rather than a workable deck.

I disagree. The Vertigo deck is the only one I work with, and I've gotten very satisfactory readings and results for myself and clients.

/OT

Unconditional Love

16:13 / 03.11.05

Since tarot is a cosmology, it seems to me that its best you know something of that cosmology represented by that tarot, so the vertigo may well work very well for a collector of those comics, just as the chinese tarot seems to work well for me because i am immersed in the symbolic cosmology(thou i prefer i ching), the buddhist tarot may well work for a buddhist depending on the kind of buddhist symbology and iconography used, hopefully its immersed in very similar buddhist cultures for example all greater vehicle where you could draw reference from.

The problem comes when the tarot itself is used as the basis and the cosmology is just cut and paste on top without the fore thought for the symbolic resonances being placed upon the basic frame work with due care and attention.

For example the mage tarot work quite well as an introduction if your familiar with white wolf role playing products.

The thoth deck if you immerse yourself in the thelemic structure of crowley, by thelema i mean all the bodys of knowledge attributed to him and his researches.

Imo it really does depend on how well you intend to immerse yourself in the world that the tarot is being used as a vehicle to guide you within.

12:56 / 04.11.05

Talk about one of those pointless synchronicities Robert Anton Wilson likes to write about...

Yesterday I was at a megasized used book store, and in the "New Age" section came across a first edition of the mass market paperback of Eden Gray's "Tarot Revealed," dated 1969, which features on both the front and inside cover major arcana cards from the Albano-Waite deck. Then on the back page there is an advertisement for the deck itself, which strangely could be ordered directly from the publisher, New American Library.

It seems Gray's book was originally published in 1960, but then republished as a cheap paperback 9 years later, to cash in on the occult craze. I know she wrote some other books; I also have her "Mastering the Tarot," from 1971, which seems to feature the exact same material.

14:06 / 04.11.05

I might have another look at the Vertigo deck then (ta electricmonk) now I've read a bit more vertigo.
I started on the Mage deck and used it for nearly ten years, it was great, but as said above only because I was immersed in the cosmology. It's basically a reworked Coleman-Smith deck, which I switched to a few years ago as it's more user-friendly for the querent and more recognisable- it is the Times New Roman of Tarot decks IMHO.

15:46 / 04.11.05

Yay Quantam! Let us know how it goes.

After reading all this, I'm thinking I might have to pick up the Coleman-Smith deck and try it out, though I suspect I'll feel like I'm having an affair. "You were with Pamela tonight, weren't you?"

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

18:17 / 04.11.05

I like the novelty decks when I'm doing work in that particular vein. For example, I do a lot of work with comic book characters... when integrating Tarot into these workings, I tend to use my Vertigo deck.

As a stand alone deck, I don't think that it works that well (and tarot-guru Rachel Pollack seems to really stretch to make sense of Mckean's art) but when looking for help from The Phantom Stranger or John Constantine, it works quite well. That and it's awfully pretty.

14:59 / 13.01.06

Last night I showed my wife the Albano-Waite Knight of Pentacles, and she instantly noticed how different it was from the regular Waite deck. She's only had limited exposure to tarot cards, so I was impressed she so quickly noticed the difference. You all would be proud of her, as when I showed her a few other Albano cards and asked her what she thought, she said they were "gaudy, cheap-looking fake cards," and said the original Rider-Waite was much better.

Well, I still like the Albano-Waite deck.