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Gurdgieff

The Sinister Haiku Bureau

12:44 / 13.01.02

<first of all, this is my first new topic since a 3-week holiday from barbelith, so I'd just like to say, Hi Everybody, long time no see, and hope you had a good New year.....>

But onto business. I think it'd be cool to have a discussion about Gurdgieff, and his ideas, although I'm not entirely sure where to start, so the questions I'm going to ask are intended purely to start things off, so feel free to discuss anything vaguely related to the guy and his ideas.....
First of all, it seems to me that Gurdgieff and Crowley were both approximately equal in terms of knowledge and originality and so forth, so why is it that Crowleys seems so much more influential than Gurdgeiff?
Second of all, what are your opinions about him and the fourth way, and his ideas about how everybody's 'sleepwalking'?
Third up, does anybody know where there's a copy of 'Beelzebub's tales for his grandchildren' online? Or any other useful resources???

Tamayyurt

14:45 / 13.01.02

I have no idea who this is so I can contribute to the discussion, but I did try a google search to further my knowledge on the guy but I didn't find anything...can you please provide some links.

Thanks and welcome back.

The Sinister Haiku Bureau

15:30 / 13.01.02

hello imp. Sure, here's some Disinfo stuff on him.

Their dossier on him, containing a brief intro and many links: http://www.disinfo.com/pages/dossier/id132/pg1/

Gurdgieff and Peace studies- its quite long though: http://www.disinfo.com/pages/article/id1762/pg1/

Oh, and before anybody says anything, YES, I did get the title of his book wrong- it's grandson, not grandchildren.... I guess I expected Beelzebub to be a little more sexually precocious

Oh, and his name is often spelt gurdjieff, as well, which may help in searching for stuff...I'll take a shufty for other stuff, and if i find anything good I'll post a link as well....

Papess

16:27 / 13.01.02

quote:Originally posted by Johnny Haiku:
First of all, it seems to me that Gurdgieff and Crowley were both approximately equal in terms of knowledge and originality and so forth, so why is it that Crowleys seems so much more influential than Gurdgeiff?

With Crowley's philosophy on media being... there is no such thing as bad press...well, it is no wonder that he is so well known. Gurdjieff also has quite the following but Crowley had the outrageous personality of a metamagickal rock star. I guess it only helped his influence when Crowley was dubbed the "Most Evil Man In The World"!

~May Tricks

P.S: Since I have a brain like a tea bag

, I will read up a bit more to be discussion worthy here.

captain piss

14:25 / 14.01.02

People mainly seem to talk about Gurdjieff in the context of mysticism/philosophy rather than thaumaturgy/magick, in my experience- and the latter has plenty more sinister connotations, being linked to Witchcraft, Satanism, etc.
Your mum wouldn't be that scared if you got into mysticism- but yeah, Crowley was such a self-publicist.
There’s a fairly readable essay by cyberpunk sci-fi writer John Shirley, about Gurdjieff’s life and work, which appears on his web site here. Shirley is himself a follower of many of these ideas.
I’m very vague on what it’s all about. It’s a deconditioning/self-liberation/awakening thing – not sure how it compares to the many other routes along this path. It certainly sounds daunting. Or maybe I’m just too much of a couch-potato waster to be drawn by something titled ‘the Work’.

captain piss

14:27 / 14.01.02

Also- hate to be pedantic but it's 'Gurdjieff' rather than 'Gurdgieff' innit?

captain piss

14:29 / 14.01.02

Shirley’s site also has this quote on its front page, which maybe hints at the overall thing:

""Moreover it happens that essence dies in a man while his personality and body are still alive. A considerable percentage of the people we meet in the streets of a great town are people who are empty inside, that is they are actually dead. It is fortunate for us that we do not see it and do not know it., If we knew what a number of people are actually dead and what a number of these dead people actually govern our lives, we should go mad with horror." -- GI Gurdjieff

Wrecks City-Zen

20:02 / 14.01.02

quote:First of all, it seems to me that Gurdgieff and Crowley were both approximately equal in terms of knowledge and originality and so forth, so why is it that Crowleys seems so much more influential than Gurdgeiff?

Crowley overall seems more aproachable (HO HO!!) then gurdijell,language wise.I have tried 20 some odd times to read beelzebub's tales to no avail.I get lost in the narrative and his use of "alien" vocabulary. Any respect I have for G.I. comes from "soundbites" and "analysis" by others who put it in context for me.I have no idea why I have such a difficult time with this author as his stories seem incredible...and I like that...

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