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Miami Circle

12:24 / 09.01.02

They call it the Florida Stonehenge. A big circle cut into the limestone next to the Miami River in the heart of downtown.

Well, here's what it is, and
here's what scientists say about it.

If one was to try to use the place for some guerilla magick, how would one do that?

impulsivelad: ever consider this yourself?

UKers: ever do anything at the old stone circles?

13:53 / 09.01.02

Fascinating stuff Grant.

From the, albeit limited, info given in the two articles, it certainly doesn't look like any Mayan architecture I've seen in either Guatemala or Honduras.

At first glance I lean towards agreeing with what Bob Carr said:
"It’s just an exotic way to explain it. But maybe even more importantly, it’s almost a racist way of looking at it. In the development of anthropology and archaeology in the last century, as you know Randy, the 19th Century people looked to Europe, Finland and the Phoenecians and everybody but the Indians. Now when something interesting is found we give a tip of the hat to our Native Americans. But now it’s got to be Mayan, it’s got to be Aztecs; no other Native American can think about astronomy or something sophisticated."

Which then comes back to your question of:

"If one was to try to use the place for some guerilla magick, how would one do that?"

I'm coming from my shamanic paradigm on this one so take my cautions with the accompanying grain of salt

.

The first thing I would want to do before doing any magic of any kind there is check in with what the spirits of the place and the spirits of the people who lived there feel about it.

If they have a problem with 'spiritual colonialism' they may be very antagonistic to people coming in and using the ruins for something that it wasn't intended for.

Also, if it was a 'sacred' site and not a secular site of some kind then the barriers between the worlds may still be less there and those spirits can have greater effect, for or against the magician in question.

The whole area that I currently live on used to be Ohlone land and there are some very interesting spots that I feel very welcome to do work on (usually through spending a long time working on forming relationships with the land and the accompanying spirits), spots where I'm neither welcome nor unwelcome (usually places that I haven't spent much time with), and places where the anger and pain of the place is so great that it's always hard to work there, even if the work is to benefit the land or the spirits of the people there.

Anyway, if you really are thinking about doing some work there and it wasn't just a hypothetical question, check it out and see what sort of feeling you get from it. Do you feel good there, indifferent, ill at ease? Then go from there.

13:53 / 09.01.02

Thanks for those great articles Grant. Very interesting. As for sites that have inspired me to use them in a working...well there was always Sedona. Incredible there. I swear I could access the Akashic Files there as eawsily as if it were on my hard-drive. Also, in my home country of Malta, there are the oldest goddess temples on the planet with caves nearby that go far into the earth. When I was there as a teen, I managed to do a very simple innvocation to the Goddess. It affected me in numerous ways and I am sure it still is!

Here is a link to some interesting stuff on the Hypogeum

~May Tricks

[ 09-01-2002: Message edited by: May Tricks ]

14:19 / 09.01.02

Hey Lothar - two points of reaction:

* The Mayan stuff in part comes from Carr's co-discoverer of the circle a surveyor and professional tracker named TC Riggs. (I met both of them when a friend was working on a Skunk Ape story). Riggs isn't a scientist, but lived in Honduras and was convinced some of the holes were carved in the shape of Mayan symbols. I'm not so convinced.
They *did* discover two old stone tools on the site that were definitely Mayan in origin (from the right area, at least), but with no indication of how they got there (could have been traded around, or even possibly washed up over thousands of years). One of the things that excites me about the "Atlantis" discovered off the west coast of Cuba is that it could be the remnants of a land bridge between the Yucatan and South Florida, which would provide a much easier way for the culture to spread. But thus far, that's just fanciful speculation.

* Getting a "read" on the area is difficult, because it's a great example of South Floridian culture. This is from my fractured memory, so if anyone knows better, correct me, but I think the Tekestas (who built the circle) were dead or dying out by the time the Spaniards first landed in the early 1500s. The area would have been settled next by other indigenous tribes (Caloosa? Micosukkee? not sure), then possibly by the Seminole Nation (not a true tribe, but a confederation of refugees from other tribes fleeing south from Europeans in the north), as well as by Spaniards.
Within known history, the site was a trading post with the Seminoles, an old house, and a condominium-high rise. The circle was discovered when Riggs surveyed the area after the landowner tore down the condo to build an even bigger high rise.
In sum: it's really, really old, and has been a meeting point for different cultures several times in the past. It's also in prime real estate down town and is fenced off most of the time.

May Tricks: I've never been to Sedona, but have this knee-jerk defensive reaction to it. (Prejudiced by a lot of goofy UFO sightings. I know, I need to open up more.) The Maltese stuff, though, sounds really cool. What exactly did you do in these places? How'd it work for you?

15:25 / 09.01.02

I know Grant, Sedona's reputation as a "New Age hot spot" does not do it justice. I experienced some hokey things while I was there such as having dreams with commercials in them about the crystal shops in town. My friend who was with me had the same dreams too. It really pissed us off. We walked around the next day and could pick out all those who came to us and their stores!
The land itself is a wonder though. I can't blame Mother Earth for the stupidity of humans. The raw power and the stores of memories (no pun intended!), Her memories! are truly fascinating. They came like a flood...right in the middle of the desert...so much water! It was an experience.

The Hypogeum in Malta gave me the feeling I shouldn't have been there. At least not as a tourist with my family (I managed to sneak off for a bit, naughty girl that I am!). It is a sacred place and is being treated as a cash cow (alot like Sedona) It was a while ago since I was there...18 years actually. I must go back there.
I was very inexperienced at that time. I simply did an Innvocation to the Goddess and asked her to teach me. Well let's just say She did and is. What I wanted to know she answered and the lessons were not always easy. I don't want to dissipate the energy of that small, simple yet powerful working that I performed years ago. She is not done with me and if I explain this too much it becomes subject to the thoughts and energies of others (not always a good thing!). It was a powerful spot though, that effected me for a lifetime, so far.
The caverns there are said to be "bottomless" and I have my own theories about them. It is a truly mysterious place Malta. My mind reels when I think of the implications between the nature of mankind and the place known as Malta today. I could just be biased though, hehe.

~May Tricks

17:49 / 09.01.02

It seems like a good place to do a ritual with Eleggua seeing as how it's sort of a map of celestial crossroads and a lot of traveling groups have settled there over time...but I don't know about using it as a landing pad for an alien orisha... I mean, how would the gods those massive sharks were offered too react to Ele? And I wouldn't want to invoke these guys... yeah, they could take me under their divine wing but they could also fuck me up..I just don't know.

I have to go and feel it out... But it's brimming with potential. What have you come up with?

[ 09-01-2002: Message edited by: impulsivelad ]

19:52 / 09.01.02

Grant:

Sounds like that place would have some major spiritual clutter floating around it. Anyone who would want to do some serious work there would probably need to spend a lot of time getting to know the place and doing a lot of 'house cleaning'.

Having a bunch of archeaologists digging through it probably doesn't help much either.

I am curious as to what else they discover there though.

If either you or Impulsivelad go there (even to observe from outside the fence), let us know what your impressions are.

14:21 / 10.01.02

impulsivelad: I've only driven by the place a couple times, so not much.

May Tricks: I seem to remember the caves of Malta being part of the cool conspiracy stuff in Pynchon's V, but I might be wrong.

Lothar: Yeah, it's a really busy place. The most recent findings were of ritually buried sea creatures: a dolphin, a sea turtle and a shark, I think. The only similar things they've ever found were at ancient sites in the Pacific Northwest.

They were buried like humans.

14:28 / 10.01.02

quote:Originally posted by grant:
The most recent findings were of ritually buried sea creatures: a dolphin, a sea turtle and a shark, I think. The only similar things they've ever found were at ancient sites in the Pacific Northwest.

That's SOOOOOOOOO cool.

16:09 / 10.01.02

And if you follow the link to the Historical Museum at the bottom of the story I linked to just above, you can browse their cool display of Orisha Arts.

I caught the exhibit when it opened - cool stuff.

18:21 / 12.01.02

I will check that title out Grant. Thank you for the information.

~May

18:45 / 12.01.02

I will check that title out Grant. Thank you for the information.

I would love to know what the original intent was of the Miami Circle. It seems to have protected itself, from reading what you said about the area being fenced in alot.

it is a shame that people seem to want everything to be Mayan, Egyptian or Atlantean...excetera. I think it is a capitalist issue as well as racist issue..same thing almost! It is not That improbable though. The seals of Nefertiti were found on the West Coast in California some years back. Figure that out!

~May