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Beginner's guide to invective in hip-hop

12:29 / 26.10.05

I have to supervise an undergraduate dissertation on "invective through the ages" which mentions KRS-One in the title. A swift Google reveals that this has something to do with hip-hop.

Now, my entire experience of hip-hop consists of (a) that bit in La Haine where someone mixes that song that goes whoop, whoop, that's the sound of the police (actually, is that even hip-hop?) and (b) occasionally listening to my friend rant about how good that Public Enemy song that Tricky covered is. Oh, and I read the first half of a slash story about Eminem and Krycek out of the X-Files.

So I have come to you lovely, knowledgeable people, for help: what should I be reading to get myself up to speed? Can you recommend any threads here, or webpages, or academic work on hip-hop and, in particular, on invective therein and its relation to earlier or other traditions of invective? Or a beginner's guide to KRS-One?

I thank you in advance.

Regrettable Juvenilia

12:52 / 26.10.05

(actually, is that even hip-hop?)

By astonishing coincidence, it's not just hip hop. It's KRS-One.

Which might make you think he was more dominant than he actually is.

I'm not really sure where to begin here. But! One place might be the way in which homosexuality is often used in invective - it's not just that "you are gay" is used as a put-down (although it often is), it's also that - well, I'll quote myself from aaaaaages ago...

Telling others rappers to suck your dick, or claiming they are already doing so, or that they are "riding" your dick – all this is common for the modern MC. In the context of this kind of highly-charged verbal battling, the superior rapper succeeds by establishing himself in a dominant position expressed in explicitly sexual terms: his opponent becomes his catamite, his bitch.

13:08 / 26.10.05

the site you want is this one really:
http://www.templeofhiphop.org/

it's krsone's pet project, initiated to combat his pet peeve, which can basicaly be summed as 'the commercialisation of hiphop' which is quite the can of worms really, and so dreadfully unpopular as a topic that the form he helped to innovate has rather left him behind.

i'm quoting from old memory but i think the intro to his crew Boogie Down Productions' fourth album contains the line 'what i would like to talk about today is rap music as a revolutionary tool for changing the structure of racist america'. that's kind of his thing. he's a bit nation of islam though, so not everything he says comes off as angelic exactly imho.

he's the teacher teacher rap, and of course he is that, because those other emcees out there are so wick wick wack

poor scott. still brings a tear to my eye...

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:12 / 26.10.05

Sorry, just read back yr post Deva and realised I hadn't actually answered this:

Can you recommend any threads here, or webpages, or academic work on hip-hop and, in particular, on invective therein and its relation to earlier or other traditions of invective?

I'll have to have a think about that one - I could recommend music easily enough, but not necessarily texts about it... I think there's a great book about the use of invective in hip hop which probably hasn't been written, possibly because (my impression is that) a lot of the close readings of hip hop lyricism focus on the political content, rather than the metaphors etc, the language itself.

13:33 / 26.10.05

By astonishing coincidence, it's not just hip hop. It's KRS-One

That immediately makes me feel more knowledgeable. Thanks for the pointers so far - I'll check out those links (and the sexual metaphors sound like a very useful place to start).

16:10 / 26.10.05

i think you should download some, deva.
its fairly easy to find, and it is lyrically pretty strong.
you can find the lyrics online aswell, and i think it would certainly be worthwhile to do so.

he is in many ways my favourite rapper,by the way.

Goodness Gracious Meme

18:28 / 26.10.05

knackered atm, but will have a think about texts on invective/hip-hop. I only really know about the feminist/gender end of this, but a few links to head you in the right direction/to look for references:

A bloody good read is Check It While I Wreck It: Black Womanhood, Hip Hop Culture, and the Public Sphere --Gwendolyn D. Pough. Bags of stuff on how women strategically use hip hope to make a space for speech, rage etc. Heavily researched, bound to have some good references?

This might be a useful starter on academic treatment of hip-hop, which afaik is becoming a bit of a thing in Af-Am studies depts in the US.

There's alot of stuff on using hip-hop/mc'ing as a community teaching tool, a google along those lines would get you some stuff.

There's this course listing, which might be useful?

Hip Hop, Sports and the African-Ameicanization of US Culture

CSPRC at Chicago has organised conferences on women/hip-hop, might be worth having a poke around their site

Oh, a few general things, I read this yonks ago, so I'm afraid I can't tell you if it's any good, but a looks like a good entry-level thing

That's the Joint: a hip-hop studies reader

oh look! a list of hip-hop titles

Also, as other people have said, there's no substitute for listening to lots of the music.

Start, obv, with KRSOne, then maybe have a look at something of the people on this box set listing, as Def Jam were instrumental (and controversially so) in putting early hip-hop out there. If you know anyone who has that box set, incidentally, comes with an ace booklet on the label's history.

Then maybe some Tupac, as he moved between/messes with the boundaries between different lyrical genres? Nas, maybe?

Oh, and nearly forgot Prophets Of The Hood: Politics And Poetics In Hip Hop, Imani Perry. Ace.

A book that actually does look at the texts of hip-hop. Along with some political contextualising, there is close analysis of lyrics/metaphor, call and response strategy etc. Covers, among others KRSOne. Also, if yr student isn't reading this, they should be. Wonderful wonderful book.

19:28 / 26.10.05

'Snot a webpage, but I'm putting it up here, Deva; saw Kanye, on MTVBase the other night, getting interviewed and he was giving his whole explanation of the 'faggot MCs' (quite happy to star that, if anyone wants. Just ask) dialectic. His explanation was that, for him, being brought up by a single mom, his manner became, as a child, affected, and he was therefore subject to playground taunts about it; he then discovered the thug archetype, which is pretty much - as described - oppositional, and as a reaction adopted that and the anti-gay/effeminate invective. I'd imagine that this is pretty extendable around a lot've emcees.

Was very contrite and emotional too, afterward. "Stop hatin'" and that.

08:13 / 30.10.05

nothing to add, really, other than to say 'stop hating' is a great way to end a defence/explanation of homophobic invective.
even if he said it straight faced i would find it hard to believe he wasnt taking the piss.

20:35 / 30.10.05

I'm pretty sure the "Stop hatin'" was directed at homophobic MCs, not the judgmental media. Don't hate on gays, hate on Kanye all you want.

00:11 / 31.10.05

Yeah, it was. He was really sincere, mind.

09:28 / 28.11.05

I'm bumping this thread to say that some specific music has now been mentioned: KRS-One's album Return of the Boom Bap and the track 'Beef Rapp' on MF Doom's album Mmm... Food? (?). I'll spend some of the day googling and following up the sites you've already linked me to, for which many thanks, but if any of that sparks associations for anyone, it would be super to hear about them.