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Underground > Games & Gameplay >

Hate speech and the vernacular of online gaming

  
 
The Strobe
19:06 / 23.10.05
So I was playing an online game of Far Cry: Instincts this afternoon with 15 other people on Xbox Live, and enjoying it greatly because for once, it was very playable and not that laggy.

So far so good.

Then we went into the lobby, and I sat there, semi-stunned, as an American guy chanted the word "nigger-lover" at some poor soul in the room. I was, to say the least, fucking offended.

But I stayed, because it was a good server... and then I found myself automatically put on the same team as the moron, and had to sit as he called anyone who did anything badly, anyone who got shot, anyone who pissed him off, a "nigger". Incessantly. I lost my rag at him, and eventually just left the game. At one point he actually had the nerve to say "it's not like there are any black people playing here anyway, is it?"

Earlier, on another server, I'd had to listen to a 12-year-old (I guess - his voice hadn't broken) casually throw away words like "gay" and "faggot" in his conversation, again to describe poor performance.

So I felt we ought to confront this topic.

Before voicecomms, these words appeared in text. Specifically, they appeared in l33t; the word "gay" was never uttered, but instead, the word g4y or gh3y. The latter transmogrified; I've seen the word "jey" used as well to mean the same thing.

They clearly stem from the perjorative, negative, offensive use of the word "gay" that is already too-prevalent in society. This is fundamentally bad. No question of that.

In the place these words now stand, however, they've changed quite a bit. When people typed "gh3y" in a game of Quake3, they emphatically did not mean "gay"; gh3y had its own meaning. Perhaps. But there and again, it descends from a hate-usage of the word, so it's bad, right?

What's weird is that whilst I'd always be offended by the word "gay" appearing in text as a perjorative, I was prepared to turn a slightly blinder eye to the stupid, adolescent misspellings of it, because I (probably foolishly) weren't meant with the same hatred.

But now we have voice-comms - and on Xbox Live, it's the only option. And whilst I listen to my British friends throw obscenities and euphemisms (which, no matter how creative, are never hatespeech - though you may differ on the use of the c-word by certain Scottish acquaintances) around like there's no tomorrow, I also listen to an incessent string of American teenagers call practically everyone on a Halo 2 server a "faggot". Not nice.

What really got me was that today, the n-word got used. And then justified with a "no black people here, mate" excuse. (How did he know? Did we not have "black" handles? Did we not "sound black"? Can black people "not afford Xbox Live"? I don't know, I didn't press him). Really horrible word; more horrible coming from what sounded like a 30-year-old male with a Texan accent. I guess the important piece of writing on this in a more textual aspect is Bow, Nigger by alwaysblack; if you haven't read it, do so now.

So I wanted to open up some kind of discussion on this topic, and I hope we can stay on some kind of level. I guess starting points:

is there any way this kind of hate speech can be justified? (probably not, I certainly hope not).

what is it about online gaming that leads to this speech? Is it certain kinds of games - FPSes - or does it affect all? Is it certain kinds of players?

Does gaming spread the idea that this kind of langauge might be acceptable?

What experiences (if any) have you had of this kind of behaviour? How did you react?

Have you ever used this kind of language - even as a slip of the tongue - in an online game?

Text versus voice, l33t versus Queen's English - is any one worse than the other, or are these words bad however we frame them?

I guess I'm trying to come to conclusions myself, after my pretty appalling experience this afternoon, and hoped that discussion might help. Fire away.
 
 
Supaglue
22:40 / 23.10.05
Paleface, I'm glad you've raised this - I know exactly how you feel. I've had it get to the stage where its got me so angry I've had to walk away from my Xbox.

It happened when I was on this evening, it happens at least once every time I play Halo AND IT FUCKS ME OFF. Its something I've always thought about raising when I had the time, but now I've read your post I thought I should reply. I'm pretty angry at the moment too, so excuse these probably incoherent ramblings and typos.

I have to say that it is mostly from US gamers. I hate to say that, because the last thing I want to do is tar with a very wide brush, especially when I'm moaning about bigots. I guess it must be a statistical thing - I obviously play against US gamers on it more, so its bound to happen from them more. Yet Project Gotham 2, for example, seems to have a very nice chilled out atmosphere and the people who play it make that so. I should point out that the game attracts mainly gamers from the continent. So is this a cultural problem within the US, or have I (I hope) just been unlucky in getting all my bigoted co-players from one country?


Perhaps it's the type of game - Halo 2, where I encounter most of this bile, is far more frenetic and emotive, as well as being immensley more popular, hence upping the dickhead quota - I don't experience as much problems in Ghost Recon Summit Strike, Star Wars Battlefront or Powerdrome, for example.


I really don't know the root of it. My initial knee-jerk is that it's the teenage kid finding empowerment yelling faceless obscenities through a microphone. Makes him feel a man (I say 'him' again from my experience of online gamers being male on the xbox), but then find myself questioning why I draw this conclusion, because the majority sound older - and I'm sure I read a statistic that the average age of an Xbox user online is 27. If 'just being young' is any kind of jsutification at all, it doesn't really apply anyway. I don't know how much intention to be racist or homophobic is behind the majority of comments - I think alot of it is said because it's offensive in a way far worse than just calling someone a 'fucker' or whatever.


What really makes me angry is the lack of any support from microsoft or Bungie or any of the other game developers. Teh feedback system is utterly useless. Even if people are banned, they can just go out and buy a new live account. And Microsoft would love that! I appreciate its very difficult to police - the size of the size of the community, the fact nothing is written, etc, makes it tough to stamp out. I can't personally think of an effective way to stop this sort of thing without it being abused - probably by the same people who it was designed to stop. I suppose if it gets me this mad, I should walk away from it, but why the fuck should I? I went through a stage of killing teammates who were racist - but it only punishes the rest of your team. And why should my rating or whatever go down for an idiot. Taking teh headphone out again would solve it, but again, I've paid for the headphone, Its integral to the game, and its part of teh gaming experience. Maybe an ignore function would work? Especially if it came up on the offenders screen. If my theory is right, and the majority of the language is intended to insult rather than be directly, say, racist (Which sounds like your guy who was going round saying 'nigger', Paleface - I mean why else say it if he thinks the congregation playing are all white) it might die down a bit if they knew everyone had turned them 'off'.

I can't see a difference between the typing of obscenities (even in l33t) - its conveys the same message, however hidden. It might gradually lessen the force behind it calling people gh4ey or whatever, but I doubt it.

Perhaps there's an argument taht anything should go. Just because I don't really care if someone suggests my momma swallows, it very well may affect someone less thick skinned. Its all offensive abuse. Should it all be banned? Impractical?

Sigh. I dunno. I'm tired, and pissed off and I've got a pile of work to do, so I think I'll end this here as its just a rant. I hope it makes some sense. I'll have a think and check in tomorrow, after I read that link you put up, P.
 
 
admiral sausage
23:22 / 23.10.05
I find all of the racisism, homophobia and aggression on X box live terrible, and I get so pissed of with it that I switch off the machine when somebody kicks off. I still really like Halo2, but I haven’t finished an online game on it for ages, but I get the impression that the worst offenders are teenage boys and after I read this post I remembered when I was in school (about 1990), some computer boffin mates of mine were on some kind of live chat with some other boffins somewhere else in the world, what did I type? Well I can’t remember but it wasn’t nice.

I work with kids aged between 11 to 18 and it can be a great job, but in all honesty at times they can be complete *****, sorry I meant very challenging. The reason that many teenagers swear at people (and its not just online) from my experience is to look hard in front of their mates, take the kid out of the class away from an audience and he completely different. For a teenager to walk up to someone and swear in their face for no reason takes some bottle on their part, but on line its easy, and there’s no consequences. Belive me, I've worked as a supply teacher.
If Microsoft banned accounts with too much negative feedback it would massively open to abuse, kids would be getting each other banned all over the place (vie seen what they do with each other email accounts if they get the passwords) , as well as possibly getting anyone they take a dislike to getting a ton of negative feedback and being banned. Investigating anything like this would be an enormous task, as well as loosing Microsoft custom in the long run.

I don’t know what the answer is, but I wouldn’t want this thread to turn into a "what's wrong with the kids of today” Daily Mail type rant. Part of me (as well as my girlfriend) says to grow up and stop playing computer games online with kids. Leave em to it? Or be more organised and play with people you know.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
00:46 / 24.10.05
I actually wonder how much of this - given the fact that it's predominantly FPS games, and their visceral feel of handing someone their arse via heavy weaponry - is directly descended from those '80s action flicks, where anyone who can't casually handle firearms and gut opponents without qualms is a "faggot" or a "pansy". I think there's a link, however subtle: perhaps it's been programmed into these people that tough guys talk that way?

Or is that reading a bit much into it?
 
 
Supaglue
08:50 / 24.10.05
Some of my best friends are homophobes. I don't mind that sort of thing, just as long as they don't flaunt it in front of me.

Well, I've calmed down! Think I will take some time out from my xbox for a bit. That's why I prefer playing custom games on Halo.

I don't know if you can blame movies of the 80s, Rothkoid. Maybe for 20-somethings, but not for teenage gamers that are online. And I don't know how many of those sort of films openly said 'faggot' or other derogatory terms. In fact, I'd say most had a distinctly homo-erotic quality. I guess on the basis you suggest, perhaps the expanse of certain types of music (eg hip-hop) may have influenced generations in the same way into making certain words more 'accessible'. But that's an age old can of worms that's often opened in the Music forum.

So is it that very little can be done? do we just have to accept this sort of thing? It's worrying as a whole sub-culture, and a pretty large one at that, will be bandying words around that should have died out a long time ago.

And who wants an old fart of 30 like me, telling the kids off for saying naughty words?
 
 
admiral sausage
08:55 / 24.10.05
Hadn't thought of that, good point. At least their not attemping to make witty one liners before fragging someone like Arnold Swartnegger, "Ice to have met you" (after killing someone with some ice beam of somthing)
 
 
grime
21:31 / 24.10.05
to me it's just another reminder that geeks are just skinny jocks. playing halo is just another way to engage in competitive, aggressive behaviour. imagine if football players could smack talk the other team from a safe distance. they'd just think of the most meanist thing possible and let fly.

kids are just stupid sometimes. especially boys on the net with something to prove.

although an ignore button sounds like a good idea.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
03:01 / 25.10.05
The difference between it being verbal and textual is, I suppose, that I can't concentrate on the atrocious spelling when they're actually saying the insult. That's what occupied most of my multiplayer ZING noticing time previously.
 
 
Supaglue
08:04 / 25.10.05
So are we resigned to the fact that its a place where anything can be said to anyone?
 
 
Axolotl
09:02 / 25.10.05
I guess it just reveals that for a vast proportion of the population, especially the teenage male part, "you are gay" is considered an insult. I hope that most of them are doing it unthinkingly and without malice and that they will grow out of it. I know I did. This still doesn't excuse their language & it should be dealt with.
I'm not sure what you can do about in game, other than call them on it each time. When you hear someone using hate-speech, tell them that it's out of order, and ask them to stop, but that's obviously going to kill your fun.
 
 
admiral sausage
09:12 / 25.10.05
Kind of, maybe we should just stick to our friends list ? An ignore button type of thing would be a good idea though.

Just thought if I was playing Civilization online would I be getting the same type of abuse ? E.g. " you killed my Hoplites and stole my catapult! You fukin' queer pansy bastard twat? !!!!" "gimme ceremonial burial or I'll shitting well fuck up all of your city improvements, motherlover"
 
 
Supaglue
09:43 / 25.10.05
yeah, Civ (although I prefer Alpha Centauri if anyone ever fancies a game) doesn't quite get the emotions as stirred up as getting spanked in Halo. And I suppose anything offensive that is written can theoretically be recorded, so maybe people are more weary on PC games. I do notice it on Dawn of War though.

I do agree that alot of say, 13-19 year olds are the culprits, but there appears to be a very vocal group of what sound like 20-somthings giving racial/homphobic abuse, which worries me.
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
10:14 / 25.10.05
although I prefer Alpha Centauri if anyone ever fancies a game

Most definitely. AC is one of my all-time favourite games, especially when played with its superb expansion pack Alien Crossfire.
 
 
nameinuse
10:22 / 25.10.05
It does seem to be a problem with FPS games more than others, but it also seems to be more of a problem with Live in general than PC gaming. I'd always put this down to higher barriers of entry to PC gaming (both technical and financial) and the demographic spread of the gamers.

I've admined a few games servers in my time, mostly Half-Life and Battlefield, as well as the occasional other-genre stuff, like Age of Empires and Grand Prix Legends, and both of the FPS games there have well supporeted first and third party tools for dealing with idiots. There's no community standard for a whole game, but my server, my rules. The other games simply didn't need it.

With xbox live, there just aren't the tools to remove people from the server as I'd like. Some games don't let you kick mid-game (which is just irritating, it's far more of a punishment to remove people in the midst of something) , most don't have kick-votes, and generaly there aren't the tools for a self-policing community. Maybe these tools would be abused, but then server or host reputation would get around that.

I've noticed that a lot of xbox gamers don't differentiate between playing offline against computer controlled entities, and online. They cheat, swear, and generally abuse the people they're playing against as if they can't tell the difference between non-sentient bots and actual people on the other end of a broadband link. That really does need addressing, as it's hugely corrosive to the community as a whole.

As it is, I tend to play games with people I already know, either through online communities or in real life. I prefer it that way, and it seems a better way to get a decent game in a short space of time, now I'm old, picky, and busy.
 
 
rotational
17:25 / 25.10.05
Apologies for going slightly off-topic as this isn't about gaming (though the authors are responsible for UK Resistance): Tom Coates gets pissed off in the comments at the implication of 'gay' being a bad thing on Idiot Toys. He is pretty valiant, but he's up against some world class idiots.

Gaming certainly isn't the only area that these terms are bandied around with impunity...
 
 
Supaglue
08:41 / 26.10.05
Fick me. I'm angry all over again now.

Hope you've calmed down Tom.

And this is part of the problem - yeah, we have to be resigned to it, yeah its an inevitable part of online gaming, yeah, yeah, yeah. But why the fuck should it? Millions are spent on the development of online games, yet a system can't be developed to stop wankers like this?
 
 
Axolotl
09:11 / 26.10.05
Well you could argue that online gaming is a society in itself, or at the very least a reflection of society, & we haven't managed to stop hate speech, so why should online be any different?
Possibly a campaign is worth starting, something along the lines of the "lets kick racism out of football" that has worked very well in the UK (though it hasn't wiped out racist abuse, it has vastly reduced its scope & acceptability). Ask everyone to stand up against hate speech, not to just accept it. The only problem is whether it would get support from the community itself.
 
 
Supaglue
09:26 / 26.10.05
That's a very good idea, Phox.

Marketed correctly on merchandise would be good. Possibly some kind of discount or live special options or something for those that register their tags on an anti racist/homophobic/etc website.
 
 
Axolotl
09:36 / 26.10.05
Even if Microsoft ran an advert campaign (print ads in magazines, banner ads on the web &/or Live itself) stating its opposition to such language it might remind people that it's unacceptable to use such abuse online.
From a purely commercial point of view it couldn't hurt either. It gives them a certain amount of kudos & helps give gaming a better image, which can only help their sales.
However whether it would be possible without official sanctions against the offenders I don't know. If the only sanction available was opprobrium, the use of such language as trolling could intensify.
MMORPGs often use GMs who have the power to kick people off if found cheating, perhaps something similar?
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
09:57 / 26.10.05
I normally hate any kind of FPS game since they just don't inspire me as much as a decent strategy game. However, I do play Vietcong online whenever I'm in the mood for a quick half hour of mindless gaming, and have noticed this problem in a few servers. I used to play in US servers when the game first came out, if only because there were more US based servers than European ones, and witnessed pretty much the full range of behaviour that has been described in this thread, along with the questionable behaviour that is teamkilling.

As the European servers became plentiful enough to give a decent degree of game variation, I swapped over, and from my experience of both, it seems that the idiots out there are both relatively few in number, and mainly confined to US servers. Vietcong - itself a Czech game - now has a sizeable European following, and the servers on which I play, especially the German, are pretty much always full of polite, considerate players. Of course, that may well simply be because the players in the European VC servers give the impression of being a little older than those in the US servers.

That said, on the rare occassion when a European VC server gets an idiot, the rest of the players seem to pretty swiftly meat out justice in the form of a vote to ban said player, the same for those who find it amusing to persistantly teamkill.

Touching on the problem directly though, I'm not absolutely convinced that those who engage in hate-speech online actually understand what they're saying, or even really believe it. I think the perceived anonimity of the internet - and, by extension, of online games - carries with it a certain temptation; a promise of freedom to behave in ways which would be considered inapproriate in real life, without the threat of any real repercusions.
 
 
admiral sausage
10:34 / 26.10.05
I think if most parent heard what went on when there kids are online they would be less inclined to pay up £40 a year for xbox live. If Microsoft carried out an anti hate speech campaign it would reassure a lot of parents.

As Tezcatlipoca said, it is the anonymity of it that makes it so easy (as well as the lack of repercussions) just think how people are behind the wheel of a car, gesticulating and swearing at other drivers for any perceived sleight, just because they are sealed up in little metal boxes and will probably never meet the other driver face to face.

As for the morons on Idiot Toys they clearly lack the ability to be able to think objectivly enough to understand what Tom's saying.
 
 
rotational
11:22 / 26.10.05
Totally agree that better structures are needed for online gaming to create an environment in which this crap doesn't happen so much. I suspect they're most needed by the console-makers (ie Xbox live) because I'd guess that their users are, on average, younger. Thing is, I really think that the big companies, like Microsoft/Xbox do have the will to do something - to a degree. I remember reading about the experiences of a hapless English guy with a gaming tag of Bignige who'd keep getting banned and have to explain it was a kosher colloquial nickname to get back online again. Anyone know whether Live for Xbox 360 will provide better controls for all this?
 
 
The Strobe
12:03 / 26.10.05
A few Xbox1 games are looking like they'll have better support. Battlefield 2: Modern Combat, which could be the next Halo 2 on Live, from what I've read lets teams vote on players in the current game and kick them there and then. This is a big online game, and it'll live or die by the quality of its multiplayer experience.

360: 360 has much finer grained controls over Live. You can report back on people in more detail. And from what I've read, that will have more of an effect. You'll automatically be directed towards playing with people who are similar to you - skill level, temprament, etc. What was suggested in one article is that basically, everyone marked down as "being a wanker" gets matched to everyone else who is "being a wanker".

So there'll be whole servers full of team-killers and racists, hopefully leaving the rest of us in peace.

Of course, we won't know the truth until the final thing is released, but it does look like they've realised that a few "feedback options" aren't enough, and that fine-grained controls and more rapid response is necessary.
 
 
grime
18:38 / 27.10.05
interesting stuff here, but i've got a quick question. does anyone here think that people should be able to say whatever they want online? no matter how stupid, ignorant or generally fucked up?

don't get me wrong, nothing enrages me faster than kids talking shit on the internet. but i just don't think that some sort decencey code that punishes language criminals is an appropriate response.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:16 / 27.10.05
I'm still on a crappy dial-up, so I have little experience of online gaming. Something I have noticed, though, is the difference between PC mags and XBox mags- although the casual homophobia does rear its ugly head in the former (usually in whichever mag has that Gamer Snaps feature, and usually commented on, for whatever that's worth) I've read a few times stuff in readers' letters in the latter about "gay sneaking about", or stuff being "totally gay", with no mention of this in the letter's answer.

There also seems to be, editorial content-wise, a lot more "whoah, she's hot! we're SO FUCKING HETERO"-type comment.

Is this an age/generational thing as well- the XBox mags seem to be written with younger readers in mind than the PC ones.
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
06:43 / 28.10.05
interesting stuff here, but i've got a quick question. does anyone here think that people should be able to say whatever they want online? no matter how stupid, ignorant or generally fucked up?

This isn't really a question of freedom of speech though, is it? Behaving like an idiot is something human beings do from time to time, but behaving like a racist/homophobic/xenophobic idiot is no more acceptable online than it is in real life. Shouts of "Nigger", "Gay," etc. are nasty, hurtful, and - in my opinion - completely unnecessary.
There is also the notion that being allowed to get away with it in an online environment entrenches the idea that such behaviour is, if not acceptable, at least tolerated by people. Perhaps then, it's only a matter of time before little Timmy migrates to flinging verbal vitriol at his fellow human beings in real life.


Is this an age/generational thing as well- the XBox mags seem to be written with younger readers in mind than the PC ones.

Possibly. I personally have never gamed on the XBox, online or off, so can't really comment. Certainly I'd imagine that the inherant cost of owning a halfway decent PC is comparatively high enough that they are outside the reach of most causal young gamers (well, unless little Timmy is bought said kit by his parents).

I'm much more convinced that it's an age/generational thing. A lot of younger players, certainly on some of the PC servers, give the impression that the point of the game for them isn't to particiate and assist their team, as much as emerge as a personality in their own rights, whether that means seeking attention by being and arsehole or not.
 
 
nameinuse
10:10 / 29.10.05
As for the "free speech", or when it's gameplay problems instead, the "I'm allowed to do whatever I want" aurgument, the only answer I've ever give was "Not on my server".

The flipside of one person's freedom of expression is the other person's freedom to respond. All the best servers develop their own community with it's own rules, and if people don't want to join in they don't have to on a specific server.

I don't think there's ever going to be a situation where some people won't take out their problems on others on the internet, but what we can do is ask for the tools to keep our own communities free of what we don't like.

The funny thing is, I get the feeling all the bigots, griefers and idiots wouldn't be happy playing against each other...
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
18:01 / 03.11.05
As I've said in other threads, I'm not much of a modern videogamer, so I admit up front my observations, while relevant, are pretty much from the perspective of an outsider, so please take that into consideration. (I find I have to preface my comments with disclaimers like these now, as some leap to the most slanderous conclusions without considering context.)

So while I've never participated in an online game since the days of text-only MUDs, I am privy to teen and even adolescent boys, mostly either white or Latino, in my local net cafe, screaming the vilest filth and inane chatter conceivable, and no two words are used as epithets more than "nigga" or "faggot." However, I think each word are used with different connotations.

"Nigga" is considered an "OK" epithet, because it is used in hip hop pop culture, both as a term of endearment ("Who's my nigga?") as well as demeaning ("Break yourself, nigga!"). I always cringe when it's employed by anyone not black, since I feel it's a matter of having earned the right to employ the term. Still, I understand that there's a rejiggering (sorry about that word) of what it means to be a "nigga," referring more to personality traits found in any ethnic group that nevertheless reflect poorly on the wider black image because of the inevitable associations. Still, I find it odd that if this has become "OK" then why no one throws the term "spic" in any comparable amounts.

"Faggot," on the other hand, is always meant to be an insult, because if there's one thing members of any race with emotional difficulties can agree on, it's that them queers is bad. It's a rare teen that's aware of their gay peers, and a rarer one still who accepts them regardless. The teens are predominantly a time of discovering identity, which is as much deciding who you aren't as who you are, and the less secure ones need to demonstrate their distinction in exponentially violent ways. Perhaps we ought to be glad that MMORPGs allow some sort of "harmless" catharsis, though I'm not so naïve that I think it ends there for some; for them, it's practice. Because these games, like much of the net itself, allows for anonymity and unaccountability, it allows the most misanthropic to "publicly" behave as they would in only their most private moments. I've longed to see the day that one of the loudmouth assholes at my net cafe calls a competitor a "fag," and his buddy walks up behind him, smacks him in the head and yells in his ear, "YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT I AM!"

The immediacy of a real-life confrontation is lacking in most games, precisely because said games are escapist fantasy; if there was a way to imbue the game with the realism of personal encounters, you might see more respect, but who's looking for that in their escapist fantasies?

Phantastic Phox phelt: Even if Microsoft ran an advert campaign (print ads in magazines, banner ads on the web &/or Live itself) stating its opposition to such language it might remind people that it's unacceptable to use such abuse online.
From a purely commercial point of view it couldn't hurt either. It gives them a certain amount of kudos & helps give gaming a better image, which can only help their sales.

You're talking about the same company that has no qualms helping the Chinese government configure their browsers to censor talk of democracy and track down those who do so. If you're looking for ethics in that particular business beyond demonstrative charity I'd say you'd find more in the mafia. Bill Gates and Redmond won't take any admin action that would overtly alienate their consumer base, even if it's a consumer base that alienates other potential consumers. It's the troglodytes who pay that they take care of, not the "potentials" or the sensitive minority. Unfortunately, as above, so below.
 
  
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