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The age-old question: Marvel vs. DC: You know what you like --- but why?

 
  

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TroyJ15
23:34 / 22.10.05
I run a comic shop in Maryland (USA) and I'm always surprised about how readily comic fans segregate themselves. Now don't get me wrong it's in human nature, but it still doesn't make any it less interesting how often Fanboys (used as a term of endearment and not an insult) clump themselves into categories for the sake of --- what? Individuality? Superioirty? All of the above?

Either way it got me to thinking, why do you like this publisher over that publisher? What makes it register more for you. This is not a "us vs them" thing but an individual person's love letter to whatever company makes them tick. Indy lovers no need apply. We already know where you stand. But, DC and Marvel fans --- why do you like your respective companies so much. I'd like something deeper besides Characters vs. Icons, but if that's how you feel then tell it. In detail. And post it here!
 
 
Juan_Arteaga
00:06 / 23.10.05
I don't think either publisher is inherently better than the other. Specially since it is practically the same people writing for both. So the quality of the books depends on the creators working on them, and not on the parent company.

But, as far as company owned shared fictitious universes go, I prefer the DCU. The Marvel U has pretty much three pillars: Lee, Kirby and Ditko. Almost everything that exists in the Marvel U was either created by them, or based on something they did. Thanks to that, the Marvel U feels somewhat cohesive and it has a general feel to it. The DCU, on the other hand, was created by a helluva lot of people that probably rarely met each other. It's a complete lovable retarded mess, in a good way. I like the idea that, somehow, Captain Carrot, Morpheus, Crazy Jane, Hot Dog and Flippa Dippa live in the same universe. There is no general feel to the DCU unless you exclusively concentrate on the core JLA-centric.

Something else I prefer about the DCU is that it knows it is goofy. I like dogs with capes, is there something wrong with that? Super powered pets and omnipotent midgets from higher dimensions don't work in Marvel. They just don't fit in there, because it has a general feeling and it is sorta cohesive, but they fit in the DCU because in the DCU nothing at all has to fit or even tries. Nobody looked twice at Millions the Mystery Mutt, but in the MArvel U he would have standed out like a huge puss filled zit.

Yeah, I think more can be done with the DCU.
 
 
LDones
00:27 / 23.10.05
I don't think it's possible to have a really intelligible debate on a subject that has no real substance beyond "us vs. them". It’s like trying to have a substantive debate on Coke Vs. Pepsi – “Which corporate profit-minded entity speaks for YOU?”

As publishers of comic fiction they have different aesthetic tendencies, and always have, but any two companies will have different M.O.'s. DC has historically tended to focus on Parent-Substitution superheroes, and Marvel has tended to focus on Identifying-With-The-Young superheroes. I tend to find if you had a jones for father-figures you gravitated to Batman and Superman et al, and if you had a jones for characters that echoed your own feelings as a young person you gravitated to Spider-Man and the X-Men.

I think human tastes in fiction are largely parallel to their wish fulfillment wants. If your taste develops enough you start to look beyond that to other criteria that you find interesting/of value, but I think the most primal motivation for finding narratives compelling is subjective wish fulfillment.

DC = Dad
Marvel = Dude

You could probably get more sophisticated than that in trying to distill them down to their essences.

I’ve always kind of (consciously or otherwise) used Superman or Batman as behavioral role models, wanted to be ‘more like them’, not in any specific canonical sense, but as the vague entities in culture that they exist as. Superman’s a good moral barometer, by and large, Batman is a way to express that you can cope with grief by working to make a difference. I never enjoyed Marvel comics as a kid, Spider Man and the X-Men seemed so whiny to my young mind. I wanted strong figures who knew what to do when they were imprisoned by Two-Face, or bitten by vampires.

As far as superheroes go, I still stick with a personal preference for those two characters to be written well, and tend to prefer the broader, more ridiculous strokes of the DCU, but all I really look for in a comic is a compelling story and/or presentation. I like the format, word-pictures in your hands.
 
 
This Sunday
05:05 / 23.10.05
Question: DC or Marvel?
Answer: Jack Kirby!
I tend to creators, primarily, with an interest towards certain characters (I could turn this into a 'one has Black Panther and one has the Newsboy Legion' but I won't), but the universe they occupy has never really done much for me. I'm more than slightly of the opinion that our own universe is perfectly plausibly lacking in proper and utterly cohesive continuity, so the idea that a fictional universe might, doesn't bother me.
The DCU heroes as a bunch of Dad-figures and Marvel as 'real people', which is to say, your contemporaries, is a marketing deal I've never seen a remarkable amount of evidence for.
But, I know far more Marvel trivia, and have read more Marvel comics than DC ones, so... I must be a Marvelite or Member of the Mary - make that, Merry - Marvel Society or something. Actually, no, Mary Marvel works: Fawcett Uni. has Mary Marvel, Cappy Jr., and Dr. Sivana. And no IdentiCrisis or House of Mass Destruction. So.
But, there isn't a Fawcett Universe, is there? They're in the DCU and Marvel has the rights to any comic titled 'Captain Marvel'... I'm so conflicted!
 
 
sleazenation
10:11 / 23.10.05
Or to put it aanother way

Question: DC or Marvel?
Answer: COMICS!
 
 
Mario
13:18 / 23.10.05
I think this question is less relevant nowadays than it used to be. While there used to be a dichotomy between Marvel & DC (Marvel was seen as more "relevant", more "accessible" than DC's somewhat stuffier output) the cross-pollination of ideas, both good and bad, have made the companies much more alike.

These days, it's less about the kinds of stories/characters a reader likes, and more about the writers that write them. While this is an improvement over the artist-driven stories of the 90's, I'm not entirely sure this is a good thing, as it tends to lead to cults of personality.

For my part, I don't buy a lot of DC _or_ Marvel, save for the Morrison projects (and even those don't get carte blanche) and the occasiional mini. I may re-think my approach after Infinite Crisis, but I have my doubts. I find more satisfaction in books that stand alone, and have a real ending.
 
 
Sniv
17:13 / 23.10.05
I think this is an awesome question!

I think to the young mind (specifically my 10-year old mind, 13 years ago), it's all to do with which heroes you identified with the most. Now, at the time, there was the Batman animated series, which I loved (and still do) and the first super-hero comic I brought was a Batman Adventures book, which led to me only buying DC for the first six years of my comic buying life.

I didn't start reading Marvel until Kevin Smith wrote that Daredevil story, which I loved, and I didn't buy more until they kidnapped Brian Bendis and made him write all their books. I think marvel hooked me with the creative talent, rather than the universe/characters, whereas with DC, I read it for the universe, because I know most of the history. Sayng that though, I've stuck with Marvel mostly because of the Ultimate line, which I'm a total sucker for, so I guess they've hooked me with a universe too (damn their knowledge of the geek mind!)

I would guess that a kid just starting with comics now would probably start with Marvel, becuase of their high-visibility what with the Films and marketing out te wazoo right now (although the really smart ones would've watched JLU and be onto DC like a flash... or the Flash... *ducks tomatoes*).

I never really thought about DC and it's father-figure aspect though. I guess it is rather patriarchal, in the heroes-as-gods/parents echoes it has, which may have been more resonant to the young me, as I grew up without a father. However, at the time, the character I most identified with was Robin .. wiiiiith Batman as his 'dad'... ooooh, I get it! That's clever. Just solved a piece of my personal puzzle there - self analysis through comics, whodathunkit?
 
 
Juan_Arteaga
19:48 / 23.10.05
I prefer Alan Moore's view of the DC heroes. They are more like loony uncles and aunts than dads.
 
 
Slim
21:25 / 23.10.05
I prefer Marvel's characters but right now the better stories are coming out of DC.
 
 
Colonel Kadmon
23:32 / 23.10.05
I think that DC publishes more autuered - or creator-owned - material, and that's why I buy their comics more.

That's assuming that Vertigo counts as DC, right enough. And ABC.
 
 
matthew.
02:10 / 24.10.05
I grew up Spider-man and Adam Warlock I've never liked the Avengers, Thor, Hawkeye, X-men, Hulk, Fantastic Four, et cetera.

I grew up with Batman. I hate Superman.

To answer the question... I prefer Marvel only because I prefer Spider-man over everything. As I get older, though, I seem to find the iconic status of Batman to be more interesting. I think Batman to be evolving past the idea of a comic book character, and into the realm of the myth, akin to Achilles or Theseus, or Hamlet. (Superman has already done so; yuck I hate Supes. He's so... Republican...)

And I love Vertigo. What would I do without Vertigo? I certainly wouldn't have The Invisibles, or The Filth, or The Watchmen, or Seaguy, or Sandman, or Swamp Thing, the list goes on and on.
 
 
John Octave
13:48 / 24.10.05
yuck I hate Supes. He's so... Republican...

Threadrot: But Batman is WAY more Republican than Superman. Batman is a billionaire living in a mansion, he's paranoid and spies on other superheroes "just to be safe", and doesn't work well with the Justice League because his own localized agenda (saving Gotham City) sometimes conflicts with their broader one (saving the world and/or universe). Also, I bet the Batmobile is a gas-guzzler. Look at that huge-ass flame coming out the back...

Actually, come to think of it, I suppose Byrne's Superman might be fairly Republican ("I may come from another planet but I think and feel as an AMERICAN!!"). Still, Clark Kent is a member of the evil liberal media that one hears so much about.
 
 
Axolotl
15:10 / 24.10.05
I'm solidly on the side of the Marvel Universe, though if you throw in Vertigo to the mix, then the balance begins to tip towards DC.
When I was a kid I read nothing but the marvel UK black & white reprints (inherited from an uncle). When I got back into comics in my teens DC had all the cool writers and Vertigo seemed far more grown up than marvel. Then Marvel seemed to get better & I returned to reading about the super-heroes I loved as a kid. Recently Marvel's output seems to have got worse & DC is putting out more things that I enjoy.
However the influence of my childhood means I will always prefer the marvel universe. Plus it's got Spiderman.
 
 
doctorbeck
15:20 / 24.10.05
sorry for futher thread rot but superman is no way republican, very much a New Deal liberal really, as someone said 'people forget that farmers are political too'

agree that Bats is, well, bats

as for my favourite, was always Marvel as a kid in the 70s and 80s, those edgey mutants, cosmic FF and spidey, the superhero every kid can identify with now,

but these days agree with earlier posts that the sheer joycore goofiness of the DCU just makes it a better place for fun superhero stories, and if i want consistent a realistic read then the Ultimate Marvel Universe does it better than the 616 one ever could, it now looks like a poor middle ground between the DCU and the UMU
 
 
matthew.
14:20 / 25.10.05
Batman is a billionaire living in a mansion, he's paranoid and spies on other superheroes "just to be safe", and doesn't work well with the Justice League because his own localized agenda (saving Gotham City) sometimes conflicts with their broader one (saving the world and/or universe).

Yeah, but that's what makes Batman so bad-ass.

As Scott Tipton once said, "You simply don't fuck with the Batman".
 
 
A
16:08 / 25.10.05
THOR IS NOT A HOMO!

Ummm, I mean SUPERMAN IS NOT A REPUBLICAN!

Carry on.
 
 
Mark Parsons
21:54 / 25.10.05
DC is everything from Muddy and Elvis to Zepplin and Doors. Classic pantheon players.

Marvel are the upstarts: everything from Pistols to Strokes (and just as self-conscious about it). As upstarts, that's why Marvel "has" to reboot their uni/books so often. Freshness is part of the company's DNA brand.

Me, I like a bit o'both.

And no, I do not know where Captain Beefheart fits in either...

(grammaticians: why does "DC is" and "Marvel are" sound right despite the difference in verbs?)
 
 
Mark Parsons
03:28 / 26.10.05
And I think that Kal is definitely progressive, but he's the kind that'd get along fine with rock-ribbed old school Republicans, who seem scarce these days.
 
 
Mark Parsons
03:40 / 26.10.05
Back on topic:

Either way it got me to thinking, why do you like this publisher over that publisher?

I imprinted on the MU via Trimpe's HULK, Robbins' CAP, and Kirby's ETERNALS, plus old Mighty World of Marvel FF et alia reprints (Anglo-American am I). When I was a kid, what I saw of DC seemed "corny" but I may have been smooshing together impression from the BATMAN TV show, which was syndicated out the wazoo in the mid-70s. Marvel seemed fresher, jazzier and "edgier" to my feverish nine year old mind. This all reached an apex with discovery of C/B's X-Men, Miller's DD, Simonsen's Thor. Reading fan press stuff got me interested in trying Teen Titans (Wolfman & Perez). Once at DC, it all gained momentum, Crisis, Post Crisis, ALAN BLEEDING MOORE, Morrison, gaiman, etc. But even though I've read many more DC books than Marvel over the last twenty odd years, I still think of myself as a "Marvel Kid" cuz that's where it all began, first impressions and so on.

And I've never understood the whole rivalry thing, at least when trashing is involved. There's usually something cool to read on either side of the fence in whatever era. Close yr eyes and miss half the fun...
 
 
thirty/thirty
08:40 / 26.10.05
DC gave us 5 different Hawkmen/Hawkgirls, 2 Catwomen, 3 Huntresses, a Supergirl...a Powergirl and a flying dog called Krypto. Oh, and a horse called Bat-horse.

Marvel gave us Misty Knight.
 
 
Mark Parsons
17:45 / 26.10.05
And?
 
 
Juan_Arteaga
18:24 / 26.10.05
I tried to use an exchange rate program to figure out how many Catwomen one Misty Knight is worth. I couldn't figure out how to make that work, but for what is worth it, one Misty Knight is word 758.9933333 Philippine pesos.
 
 
Simplist
21:27 / 26.10.05
yuck I hate Supes. He's so... Republican...

Not too likely. Clark Kent is a reporter for an institution roughly akin to the Washington Post or New York Times. At worst he's a centrist Democrat.
 
 
Tim Tempest
21:46 / 26.10.05
I really can't choose between DC and Marvel.

When I was young(er), it was almost always Marvel. I loved Spider-Man. Hell, I AM Spider-Man. He could save the world and have a laugh at the same time. And whenever he would meet Johnny Storm, it was gold.

DC...I love them too. They are just...iconic. For a long time, I wouldn't read them because they seemed, to me at such a young age, that they were almost too big to be approachable. I'd read a Superman comic, and then I'd think: "Well, that's amazing! But, if Desert Storm is going on, and you could end it in a second...but your out on a date with Lois Lane...You've got a damned responsibility Superman! Take a cue from Uncle Ben, for crying out loud!"

The irrational rationale behind it, I suppose, was that Spider-Man seemed to be more plausible than Superman. Or vice versa.

Sometimes it's fun to analyze how you used to think.

But for the NOW, I would definitely split it almost down the middle. Spider-Man is still cool...(but I'm unsure about this 10 part crossover...I haven't liked a lot of what JMS has done on the title...The Gwen Stacy/Osborn demon spawn crap...). New Avengers is starting off pretty great...(But I'm not sure I like The Sentry), and DC's killer book for me is gonna' be Infinite Crisis for a bit.
So, I suppose in all of my talking, I really haven't chosen a side...And I don't think I can. It's like choosing a favorite older brother.

I guess, for this debate, you can call me Switzerland.
 
 
Mark Parsons
04:16 / 27.10.05
Threadrot:

yuck I hate Supes. He's so... Republican...

Not too likely. Clark Kent is a reporter for an institution roughly akin to the Washington Post or New York Times. At worst he's a centrist Democrat.


Again, I say thee nay!

Kal listens to Garrison Keillor's PRAIRIE HOME COMPANION. He'd vote for Howard Dean and Dennis Kuchinich. I just know it!
 
 
thirty/thirty
09:37 / 27.10.05
I tried to use an exchange rate program to figure out how many Catwomen one Misty Knight is worth. I couldn't figure out how to make that work, but for what is worth it, one Misty Knight is word 758.9933333 Philippine pesos/

I love pesos! You can buy things with them when you're in Spain.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
14:39 / 27.10.05
As a kid in the 70's Marvel was really head and shoulders above DC, mostly because they were utterly out of control. You had the big sellers like Spidey and the FF, but they had such insane series as Son of Satan, Howard The Duck, Gerber's Defenders and the like. It really felt as if the adults had gone home and it was a bunch of nutjobs running things. After Shooter came in and hired editors, a lot of the magic was lost for me. Through the 80's, Marvel hit on a very successful formula of super-hero soap operas, and while the books sold better and were more successful, the feeling of "anything can happen" went away. Aside from a few artistic bursts in the early 80's, by 1985, the main Marvel line was amazingly bland. By the 90's, it had grown incredibly incestuous, with editors writing titles for other editors, most of the writers gone and art that was flashy, busy and couldn't tell a story to save its life. After Bob Harris was gone as EIC, Quesada brough back writers, focused on telling stories that people wanted to read, and for a while, made Marvel a place that was interesting again. It seems to be backsliding now to blander storytelling and formula like in the 80's, but that stuff does sell.

DC in the 70's was mostly unreadable to me as a kid. The stories were gimmicks in the place of plot, and their characters seemed dated and old. Then, as Shooter chased off talent like Marv Wolfman and Roy Thomas, DC started to get interesting...and they took chances with creative teams. Len Wein, who'd written all of Marvel's big guns at some point, was the editor who brought in Alan Moore and let him go nuts on Swamp Thing. After Crisis, there seemed to be two DCs, one that was chruning out standard 70's Marvel fare and another that was seeing just how far they could push mainstream comics. By the late 80's, I was reading mostly DC...however, Vertigo got spun off into their own imprint, and DC was throwing crap at the wall to see if it stuck. Some of it was Starman and some of it was Psyba-rats...horridly inconsistant. They made bank on shocking long-time readers, but rarely had anything to follow-up the shock (I remember really liking the Superman books before he died, and then losing interest within 6 months of that story ending...never really to get it back). DC seems to keep being the place where people can come in and do really fun, great work, but it either isn't promoted and dies quickly, or they have no idea what to do when one of the creative team leaves.

So...now, I prever Marvel, but with George coming back to some of their mainstream super-hero stuff, DC will probably will me back.
 
 
The Falcon
15:02 / 27.10.05
I love pesos! You can buy things with them when you're in Spain.

No you can't.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
01:20 / 30.10.05
Though I have a certain fondness some characters and franchises (most notably the X-Men), ever since I was a kid I've always just zeroed in on the comics that I found interesting being published by Marvel and DC. I'm generally pretty disgusted with both companies at the moment, but I still find things to enjoy. It should come as no shock that the titles I currently read and enjoy are more or less entirely self-contained - Bendis/Maleev Daredevil, Waid's Legion of Super Heroes, Milligan's X-Men, Whedon's Astonishing X-Men, the hilarious Miller/Lee Batman, and one-shot things like Michael Allred's issue of Solo.
 
 
matthew.
02:41 / 30.10.05
mild threadrot

Bob Harris wrote this amazing Nick Fury story (that you can buy here) which admittedly has bad cover art, but the inside art is gorgeous.



In this mini-series, Nick Fury finds out that -shock- SHIELD hasn't been too honest with him. It turns out SHIELD and HYDRA are arms of the same shadowy board of shadowy figures. So he defects and starts taking out people. He steals shit from Iron Man, and goes renegade.

That's why I like Marvel: SHIELD and HYDRA are part of the same team... that's so... zen.

(By the way... anybody has a copy of this for cheap and wants to get rid of her, PM me)
 
 
matthew.
15:25 / 16.12.05
I'd thought I'd resurrect this thread with a quote from a great writer on comics:

Just before Cartoon Network’s JUSTICE LEAGUE series became JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED, the first series was closed off with a bang with the direct-to-DVD movie STARCROSSED, which revealed that League member Hawkgirl was actually an advance agent sent to do reconnaissance for an eventual invasion of Earth by the Hawkmen of Thanagar, her home planet. Taken by surprise, the League is overcome and swiftly the Hawkmen have taken over the planet. Although they manage to escape, the League must come up with a way to destroy the massive control center the Hawkmen have built on Earth. Batman says “leave that to me,” and soon he, Flash and the Martian Manhunter are heading back to space to reclaim the Watchtower from its new residents. After knocking out the Hawkmen on board, Batman tricks Flash and Martian Manhunter into an escape pod and jettisons them back to Earth, with his voice coming over the intercom: “Gentlemen. It has been an honor.” Batman then heads to a control panel and activates a previously unknown system that releases a pilot’s seat and steering wheel for the Watchtower, and proceeds to power the satellite into a suicide dive, headed directly for the Hawkmen’s control center. The lesson here? Don’t fuck with Batman. Period.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:01 / 16.12.05
>> In this mini-series, Nick Fury finds out that -shock- SHIELD hasn't been too honest with him. It turns out SHIELD and HYDRA are arms of the same shadowy board of shadowy figures. So he defects and starts taking out people. He steals shit from Iron Man, and goes renegade.

>> That's why I like Marvel: SHIELD and HYDRA are part of
the same team... that's so... zen.

Bendis seems to be playing with this idea in the pages of his NEW AVENGERS book these days, FYI.
 
 
Cowboy Scientist
06:21 / 17.12.05
I prefer DC right now. As a kid, I liked Marvel the most, especially Spiderman, but now I find it boring and repetitive.
Besides, Marvel history has -exept maybe the 4F- only superheroes and supervillians. DC has aliens, cowboys, gods, time travelers, etc. Well, Marvel has some of that too, but they seem kinda ashamed of the more weird ideas they had, especially in the 70's, with Son of Satan, Howard the Duck, Warlock etc. They are trying to be more conservative.

Nowdays, I can't think of something more uncool than Spider-Man, and something more cool than Superman. Yes, even more than Batman. Get over the whole "Dark" thing. Batman's -and his context- so serious. Besides, Bats only looks cooler on Gotham city. But put him in space, or a bizarre planet, or something like that, and stops working. You can put Superman in any context, and it works.
 
 
The Natural Way
10:37 / 17.12.05
Balls. Batman's awesome in space. BAT UFO'S GO!
 
 
The Natural Way
10:39 / 17.12.05
DC's ROCK!!! because: Embrace the weird!
 
  

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