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The way we watch TV drama now...

 
 
sleazenation
23:09 / 18.10.05
This is kind of leaping out of the Serenity movie thread where Kovacs agreed that he did not enjoy many of the key features TV series...

It got me thinking about TV series and the way we consume them, in the UK, US and elsewhere. This is a very interesting time for TV. The traditional broadcast model is being tested like never before - an increasing number of people are watch TV series on their computers via downloads rathar than on their TVs. There is also another, overlapping audience that watches tv dramas a series at a time as DVD boxed sets. The rules of the game are changing, to reflect changes in viewing habits. When star trek TNG started in 1987, self-contained episodes were the norm for tv series- since babylon 5, US Tv shows appear to have been paying more attention to continuing narratives on TV...

Is this a trend other people recognise? If so, where is it going? If not, what do people think TV sci- fi is going?
 
 
iamus
01:26 / 19.10.05
I seem to remember a quote from Joss Whedon about the structure of Buffy. Paraphrasing here, but the jist was that Buffy was a show which required the full attention of its audience. Almost everything about the show (from narrative developments within and across seasons to character interplay and even the throwaway one-liners) practically demands a thorough knowledge of the Buffyverse. You basically have to live with these people everyday as if they were your best friends in order to take full advantage of what the program offers.

Contrast this with your example of TNG. There is character development of a sort, but the Star Trek crew are more archetypes than they are people. There's not a whole lot going on under the surface. Primarily they are there as setup to "incident of the week". You can tune in, immediately know where you stand and get taken on a sci-fi ride for forty-five minutes or so without having to worry about where you are chronologically and what has happened between and around everybody to get you there. Buffy won't let you do that.

I've been thinking about this very topic recently because I'm watching Lost, which is a program that makes even the audience investment required by Buffy look small. Lost is a very complex show that demands a lot of investment in both character and plotting. Whereas TNG is primarily about incident (with fairly static character archetypes) and Buffy is a show primarliy about character (with plot almost totally in its service), Lost is primarily about both.

(No plot spoilers here, but I'll be discussing its structure)

It has a huge cast of characters that are not only interacting with one another, but also come with their own drip-fed histories. Sometimes you're not getting the payoff to character beats until weeks, months or even a season after they're set up. Buffy did this too, but the cast of Buffy was small and self-contained enough to be easily trackable. With Lost, the sheer amount of ground to be covered means that some characters won't even make an appearence for a couple of weeks, requiring the viewer to constantly juggle with who is where and who's side of the story we may not have seen yet.

Then there's the actual plot, where the viewer is expected to play detective from week to week. Trawling memory of not only character but incident in order to make sense of whatever tantalising new titbits the writers have thrown in. A Buffy season has a pretty traditional Setup/Development/Payoff structure. From what I can tell, Lost doesn't have that. It just keeps piling up the layers of complexity. It doesn't give a lot of answers, but its questions working together build up a credible continuity that is equal parts satisfying and tantalising. In this show, plot and character often feel like very seperate (yet symbiotic) things.


I think that the box-set trend is a knock-on effect of shows being structured into extended narratives. I think the reason they are built like this is thanks in no small part to the effect the internet has had, providing a constant "water-cooler" environment for viewers.
It is a whole lot easier to keep track of and dissect these shows nowadays. Lost knows this. From messageboards run by Lost staff to several dummy websites, it's not just a TV show, it's a multimedia one. It can be appreciated solely on the box, but to get the full effect you have to go online, which throws up an intriguing problem about the way the show is broadcast.

If you're watching Lost in the UK, the internet is a no-go. The very structure of the show becomes a double-edged sword. On one hand, it begs to be inspected and discussed. But because of this, it's also very easily spoilered. To get the full experience, you have to be catching it at the same time everybody else is. So unless you're in America, bittorrent is the only way to fully appreciate it. If future TV drama follows the example set by Lost (and judging by its popularity, that's a likelihood) then somebody is going to have to come up with a new distribution model or they risk losing quite a bit of money.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned this increased complexity is only a good thing so far. The power of character is in emotional empathy and these longer, deeper, more convoluted narratives (as long as they are well-written) make that empathic link more likely. It just makes adverts about ten times as irritating is all.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:43 / 19.10.05
I was especially struck by EXTREME GORBACHEV's comment on the "Lost" thread about the series being "pan-media". It's not a term I've come across before but it seems a good one -- I've also seen this tendency for cross-platform narrative called "overflow". As the "Lost" thread also noted, Donnie Darko is a recent example; Memento also had a puzzle website that allowed viewers to explore the film's backstory and gain information not in the primary text, and AI was seeded across the web with fake futuristic websites and clues hidden even in the code of those sites.

The forum TMO is a spin-off from the bulletin boards on Seethru.co.uk, which were set up to expand and reflect the fictional dotcom start-up in the BBC show Attachments: Seethru pretended to be the site in the programme, run by the characters. Dawson's Creek used to run a similar kind of simulation, with Capeside tourist websites and "Joey's Diary" features, again inviting fans into this illusion that the characters exist and have a web presence.

More generally I'd suggest that Big Brother fans spend at least as much time on a website, official or not, discussing the show and reading background about the rest of the day's events (those not covered in the 45-minute TV edit) as they do watching the programme itself. The same is surely true of many other shows -- I've spent as long reading the TV Without Pity forums and recaps for The Apprentice as I have watching the series.

I watched Firefly on download, which of course meant I could view the episodes in any order, in my own time -- so issues of scheduling and advertisement breaks are suddenly unimportant. It doesn't matter anymore if a channel screens a show inconveniently late at night, or in the wrong episode sequence -- I can watch the whole series in a day if I want. I'm also watching that show on the same screen as the internet, in an adjacent window to, say, the Lost website and TV Without Pity... so the TV text is physically far closer to the supporting internet texts: I'm just clicking from one neighbouring window to the next, with no distinction between TV and computer. Maybe the internet "supporting" material isn't secondary when viewed like this, but on the same level of importance.

Overall, for me, TV viewing has changed in that I don't sit and watch the television anymore. If I want to watch a show, I download it. I'm therefore viewing it in a far more solitary, antisocial way, on my computer, and I'm watching it alongside computer texts, often texts that relate to, back up or expand my understanding of the TV show.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
08:42 / 19.10.05
But then you have CSI: Vegas, which normally works on a principle of 90 to 100% standalone each week, maybe with an occasional foray into the private lives of the characters, CSI: Miami and CSI: New York which are entirely self-contained (I started watching the latter halfway through the first series, watched the first half when the series was repeated and realised I hadn't learned anything more about the charatcers than I knew already). They, and Law and Order, seem to be trying for the opposite, shows you can see and understand without having seen any other episodes or needing to see the same episode next week, but trying to make the scripts dynamic enough to make you choose to watch next weeks episode.
 
 
Sniv
12:40 / 19.10.05
I think this is a really fascinating idea. I think it's fairly obvious though, that the geekier you are, the more you're going to dig stories with multiple/hidden/secondary narratives. It reminds me a lot of comics (in specific, GM's Seven Soldiers), in that there's this wealth of extra info, if you care enough to look for it.

I don't think that 'normal' TV viewers should be punished for not being obsessive though, which will probably limit the complexity of these secondary media strands of TV shows. I think the future is heding to where some shows (especially sci-fi/alternative shows) will have full-blown 'Alternative-reality Games' (as they are known) to accompany them, like more complex/rewarding versions of what Lost is now.

Speaking of Lost (and there's some SPOILERS here, for peeps not on the second season)....


..


..

gone? good?

I think that the internet material is of a more philosophical/left-field bent, while the show itself focuses upon the immediate realities these characters face. Things like the Hanso Foundation especially, and the whole concept of Dharma... if I hadn't been reading here, I'd have missed the Dharma concepts almost completely, and they are some of the most chilling things about the program right now.

However, that said, for the majority of people, these things don't exist, and probably never will. Can you imagine an ARG to accompany Desperate Housewives or Nip/Tuck? These are both mega-popular, but aren't really aimed at the same geek-core as Lost. X-Files though, that wouyld've had an awesome ARG...

Also (never-ending post...) I think that very soon the program-makers will have to address the problems of downloading. How much money are they really losing from us doing this? Are we (the youngish, alternakids) a demographic that the advertisers want, and will miss? I think I would consider paying for (fucking) high-quality shows that you could DL and watch as and when you want, but how much? I think realistically, you couldn't charge more than 30-50p an episode (otherwise you may as well buy the DVD), and why would anyone bother when they can get it for free elsewhere (either on TV or from Bittorrent)?

My local cable company has just started to offer shows to watch on Pay-per-view (including the first season of Spaced... awesome), at around £1.00 for 2 eps, or 75p each. Gotta say, this worked for me, and the missus and myself watched all of 'em without thinking too much about the pocket-change price.

Is this the way of the future, and could it even stop great shows that people care about being cancelled?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
13:19 / 19.10.05
it's worth noting in this thread that Apple has thrown it's hat in the ring with their latest version of iTunes. It's possible that this isn't showing up in the UK due to the different iTunes Music Stores for each country, but you can now buy and download episodes of certain shows the day after they air for $1.99, including LOST.

The resolution is small and wouldn't look good on a big screen, but this is the first model I've seen that allows you to legitimately buy individual episodes on the internet (not through a pay cable company, like HBO or Showtime, which has a whole different "on-demand" system).

Here is the link to the iTunes TV section, but I'll warn UK viewers that it's possible the second season LOST episode listings could contain some SPOILERS

In conjunction with this new iTunes, they are now making Video iPods, so that you can watch your purchased episodes. Here is a news report about it.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
14:35 / 19.10.05
I too have noticed this trend, happily observing shows like Prison Break (although not happily watching that particular show) making it to the major networks with a ONE MAJOR PLOTLINE structure as its main selling point. At first I wanted to blame HBO for this whole ascendancy of what I suppose I'll call The Telenovela. (In English it doesn't mean Soap Opera.) But then I realized that it's most popular and successful show, The Sopranos, isn't actually structured like that. There are slight threads running through seasons, but every episode stands alone pretty strongly. Deadwood and The Wire, however, while less popular, are sterling examples of 13 (or so) Chapter Novels, serialized in weekly chunks. (If you want to include Carnivale Season 1, I'll say sure, but anyone mentions Season 2 and I start going 'LALALALALALALALALALALALALALA' and covering my ears.)

It's quite heartening, though, to see a show like Lost remain so popular, even as it ramps up the mythology and obscurity by enormous levels week in, week out. I inhaled the box set as review when it came out and Season One truly feels like a 24 hour long movie. And maybe that's why its so popular. It takes the idea of a Season Novel Show like Six Feet Under and instead makes a Season Blockbuster Movie. (See: Prison Break, Surface, et al.) The reason Lost has such crossover success, I'd imagine, is because Damon Lindelhof has read The Dark Tower and thus knows how to balance those two pillars of entertainment quite well. Give them the blockbuster moments and surround those with mythology. Everybody's happy. (Well, unless you read TWoP. Which might give you the impression that no one is.)

I have to say, I'm quite intrigued by the iPod Video approach, especially if/when more shows get into the mix. And especially when they start digging into old catalogues. What? I can download that one episode of Knight Rider with New Edition? So. Totally. There. There's a lot that could go wrong and flop and about this approach, but I believe the same could have been said for every single iPod/iTunes-related advancement.

But I think it's really the advent of these new forms of TV consumption that have made shows like Lost possible. The first show made for the trade (as it were)? I know TONS of people who halfway through Season One, thoroughly intrigued by the show's buzz, still didn't watch it because they were waiting for the S1 Box.

It sucks that Veronica Mars isn't more popular because I would love for them to be able to drop the mostly clumsy Mystery Of The Week motif and focus on the overarching big mystery of the season unfettered. But, fun regardless.
 
 
Aertho
15:25 / 19.10.05
Has anyone tuned into the LOST discussion Podcast channel? From Hawaii? It's set up like a talk-radio station and is only slightly as geeky as one would expect. They've things called "You All Everybody" where they take questions and theories from callers, and "Front Cabin" a section that contains spoilers and speculation.

I'll modify this post when I know more.
 
 
PatrickMM
15:50 / 19.10.05
First, I think The Sopranos definitely fits in with the new trend towards more complex, unfolding stories. If you look at seasons three and four, it fits the model exactly, with slow burn storylines that payoff at the end of the season.

With season five, they did something different, that may actually be the best use of the TV format, and that's to do a season essentially built on standalones, but each of the standalones actually pays off a whole bunch of long running threads. So, for example, the major events in the Adrianna arc are contained to three or four episodes, but it still underlies stuff that happens in the other episodes. It's the same thing in Angel season five, by this point the series has so many characters and developed plot lines that doing an overarching arc would make it impossible to fit everyone in. So, the standalone format actually makes better use of continuity and character development.

However, that's something that can only be done once you've done a whole bunch of ongoing arcs and have the character baggage to make standalones that are plot-relevant and emotionally engaging. I never got the sense that The Sopranos was trying to reinvent itself and be more accessible to new viewers, the new structure seemed to come organically out of the stories that were being told.
 
 
sleazenation
17:26 / 19.10.05
can we have a link for the lost podcast?
 
 
Aertho
17:40 / 19.10.05
The LOST Podcast

It's also avaliable as a subscription through the iTunes Music Store.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
19:35 / 19.10.05
I'm pretty sure that we can thank (I mean that sincerely) 24 for the Telenovela, as you call it, Benjamin. That was the first popular show to make use of the "one long story" format. And, of course, we have to give credit to Survivor for promising a story arc of sorts.

Of course, the true geeks know that The Prisoner is the grandfather and Babylon 5 the father of modern "storyarc" television, but they weren't as popular as the 24 phenomenon. That was the first show to wake networks up to the idea of using television like drugs and/or comic books.

If you give people a compelling reason to come back every week for more pieces of a story, you will create rabid fans. Whereas the self-contained TV model was quickly getting drowned out by (ahem) this high tech, fast paced modern world.
 
 
sleazenation
20:05 / 19.10.05
I'd have an easier time giving that position credence Keith if Babylon 5 hadn't clearly influenced DS9 and from there a continiousstrain of other programmes...

Babylon 5 was drawing on the prisoner and Blake's 7 but there was clear blue water between those two shows in a way that there wasn't between B5 and 24...
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
20:11 / 19.10.05
I wouldn't consider DS9 to be very popular, though (or Babylon 5, The Prisoner, Blake's 7, etc.). Among a certain subset of genre television watchers certainly, but not Joe and Jane Major Network Watcher.

24 was, in my mind at least, the first "hit" show that made use of a heavily serialized story format. And then Lost just exploded after that, giving rise to shows this season like Prison Break, Threshold, Invasion, etc.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:18 / 19.10.05
In what way is The Prisoner the grandfather of modern 'storyarc' television when, after episode two, you could ignore every episode until the penultimate one without missing anything (certainly bypassing the cowboy episode would be advisable).
 
 
sleazenation
20:26 / 19.10.05
I wouldn't consider DS9 to be very popular

Is there more popular or well-known TV franchise outside of star trek? I can't think of one off the top of my head.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
21:02 / 19.10.05
Well-known, possibly. Popular, not exactly.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
21:14 / 19.10.05
The Prisoner told one basic story, from beginning to end. The intervening episodes weren't exactly plot-heavy, of course, but the show at least tried to be an arc, instead of the normal "wrap-up to the status quo at the end of each episode all the way until it went off the air, with no actual resolution to the character's and story."

It being the grandfather is not a precise theory, but I can't think of a show earlier than it that operated in this manner.

The storyarc structure wasn't done full tilt until Babylon 5, I would think.

DS9 - Benjamin's comment is how I think of it, as well. Popular in this context means it crosses all audiences, not just large niche audiences like SF fans. Everyone knows what Star Trek is, but not everyone watches it. 24, Lost, etc. bring in people who wouldn't normally watch things that are so inherently...um...er...geeky.
 
 
PatrickMM
21:27 / 19.10.05
I would say Twin Peaks was the first show to use the soap opera structure of ongoing plot points and character developments, with no expectation of resolution in an individual episode, and upgrade it to include something more than just romantic intrigue. The ongoing investigation into the murder was what made the show unique, and you can see a similar hook on Lost (how will they get off the island) and Desperate Housewives (another who's the killer). And of course that follows Hill Street Blues, which was another blend of soap opera and crime. But Twin Peaks took it even further by making each episode a single day, thus ensuring a strict adherance to the 'telenovela' format.

And as the thread shows, the telenovela is widely accepted now. I think a show like The X-Files wouldn't be able to get away with doing months of standalones between episodes that forwarded the overall arc and not have any ties between the two. I accepted that when I was first watching the show, but once I started watching Buffy, the gaps in character logic between episodes on the X-Files made it impossible to really respect the show.
 
 
sleazenation
21:50 / 19.10.05
Everyone knows what Star Trek is, but not everyone watches it. 24, Lost, etc. bring in people who wouldn't normally watch things that are so inherently...um...er...geeky.

I really can't agree with you. Not only does everyone know about star trek, most people have watched it at some point. I don't think the same can be said of 24. A lot of this could be down to how Star Trek has been distributed over the years on a variety of free-to-air channels and how relatively few channels have show 24, particularly in the UK (I believe only the first 2 seasons were shown on terrestriaL TV and subsequent series have been relegated to Sky...).
 
 
Seth
23:11 / 19.10.05
From wikipedia: Nonetheless, it (DS9) remained the top rated first-run syndicated drama series throughout most of its run and was successful enough that Paramount launched two more Trek series. It is best remembered for its well-developed characters and complex story arcs, which set it apart from other series and (for better or worse) put it in a league of its own.

As far as influenced by Babylon 5, DS9 began a year earlier and ran pretty much concurrently with that show. There's nothing to say that B5 was an influence beyond the word of its creator, who many believe credits himself with a little too much. The DS9 writing team put almost all of their choices down to either their disatisfaction with the ST:TNG writing format and constraints or their own perversity. As far as story-arcs go the show had many ongoing arcs and a huge cast of secondary characters, but the writers are pretty honest about having made them up as they went along. Whereas Joss Whedon claims Lucas-style to have had many things planned out for years, but the quality of the show makes one wonder if he's fibbing just a tad...
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
23:52 / 19.10.05
Twin Peaks.

Yes. Wholeheartedly agree with that. Odd that it came on, was successful and popular, then nothing really followed that in terms of structure.

I suspect I'm treading onto Star Trek fans with my opinions on how much it influenced the television landscape. I think it's well established that JMS (B5) pitched his show to Paramount about a year before DS9 was on the air. And DS9 only premiered about a month and a half ahead of Babylon 5, for the record. DS9 = January 3, 1993, B5 = February 22, 1993. Wikipedia tells me that DS9 was originally conceived in 1991 and a quick Google tells me that "...Straczynski went into "Babylon 5" with a 'five-year plan' that he originally conceived in 1986....

And since we are quoting Wikipedia for discussions: "Babylon 5 is often cited as raising the bar for science fiction television, using an arc-driven storytelling style now prevalent not only in sci-fi, but in mainstream dramas as well.

I'm not trying to win a battle or anything, but...ok, well, I AM trying to defend my beloved Babylon 5.

Wherever the "storyarc" dynamic in television became popularized, it has drastically changed the way in which people watch television. There are truly MUST SEE shows, that are not only must see because they are good, but because they dangle plot points on a stick for audiences to follow week after week.

And this has given rise to the DVD TV watching segment of the populace. I have two friends how only watch shows that I lend them on DVD now, mainly because they watch to control the rate at which they watch something, and don't like being tied to a certain night, a certain time, and if they miss it, it's gone.

I keep telling them to get a DVR/Tivo...but well, they are obviously very silly friends. I'm not sure why I even like them. I mean...pfft, television! Come on, what's more important than my weekly doses of Lost, Battlestar Galactica, West Wing, Rome, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and Alias??!?!
 
 
Seth
00:11 / 20.10.05
An interesting related article that I happened upon by coincidence earlier today.

On the DS9 front, it was indeed in pre-production since 1991, as the set-up TNG episode The Wounded attests. The standard JMS routine of "I pitched the show to Paramount prior to DS9" can also be explained by the fact that if they'd had the show in preproduction they would have been highly likely to turn him down without explanation on the grounds that they were already working on something similar and wouldn't dream of leaking top secret new show ideas to the lowly writer who just had a quick pitch session.

None of this is dissing B5, I just don't necessarily think there's evidence for the one series having an undue influence on the other. Nah... if I wanted to diss B5 I'd just write about the shockingly bad acting, dialogue and special effects.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
01:10 / 20.10.05
Nice one, Trekkie.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
01:13 / 20.10.05
Twin Peaks.

Yes. Wholeheartedly agree with that. Odd that it came on, was successful and popular, then nothing really followed that in terms of structure.


Well, it was probably because it was only successful and popular for about two weeks. Then it was abysmally unpopular and bounced around (schedule and plot-wise) for another season and a half. If and when the second season is released on DVD, you'll see why it's really not the best example for this thread.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
02:30 / 20.10.05
I tend to feel that B5 maybe encouraged the DS9 writers to push what they were doing a little harder, so we had those runs of episodes at the start of series 6 and the end of series 7 which ran directly one after another, like series 3 and 4 of B5, and those battle scenes where, for the first and pretty much only time in the Star Trek universe, fleets didn't hurtle head-on at one another but noticed that there is also an up and down in space.
 
 
PatrickMM
03:13 / 20.10.05
On Twin Peaks, even though the quality dips a bit post murderer reveal, the show still sticks to its ongoing telenovela format, and never moves towards anything close to standalone. Now, you could say that at that point it becomes just bad soap opera, but I think year two is better than its reputation.

And the very reason that there's that drifting, uncertain time is the fact that they were pushed to wrap up the who killed Laura plot quickly, and as a result ended up with nothing to focus the show on for a while.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
04:47 / 20.10.05
Not wanting to derail the thread by gettig more into a discussion of the genesis of B5 and DS9, but isn't it obvious, especially in the later episodes of DS9 (which really were produced after B5) that there was some ripping off of plot arcs? The prophecy? The captain who had to sacrifice himself to save the world, who mysteriously comes back to life? The 'angels'? Quasi-religious mysticism? I remember watching those DS9 episodes and cringing with the recycled quality of it all.

Anyhow, I would also remind people that how 'popular' a particuar TV show is totally context-dependent. There's no way of gauging a TV show's weird effects or influences by what your personal experience of a show's popularity is... Especially given the global nature of TV, the local reception of various shows sometimes years after they've screened originally, etc.

24's gimmick, and it is a gimmick rather than a specific innovation, is the realtime/screentime synchronicity. Twin Peaks already did it -- and even if it sank into the depths of obscurity for a number of years, I'd argue Twin Peaks would have a formative effect on anyone writing scripts or dreaming up TV shows now. It is cult -- which says nothing about its 'popularity', but everything about its circulation as an influence on the current generation of TV creators, producers, writers.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
05:18 / 20.10.05
Year Two is undoubtedly rich with wonders but any "season" that can have the searing brilliance of the Maddie storyline alongside the crushing mediocrity of the Andy/Dick (Hey!) Trial Adoption Paternity Storyline, well, uneven is an understatement.
 
 
Seth
09:42 / 20.10.05
Nice one, Trekkie.

Niner, dude.

As far as prophecy and mysticism and messianic central characters... dude, aren't these the staples of genre fiction since the year dot? Again, DS9 had them since the pilot in '93.

Most of the arc plotting and recurring characters, plus the increased tendency towards serialisation in the shows last two seasons, were writers decisions that necessarily came out of the format of the show being based around a space station. They had to fight Paramount to do it, and in some cases actually went ahead against the express wishes of Berman and Braga. All the creative staff are pretty vocal about their geeky influences and B5 didn't get mentioned (besides once, and favourably... although that was regarding a minor casting decision to put Bill Mumy in The Siege of AR558).

I'm frankly in disbelief that Babylon 5 is considered the blueprint for anything besides being an influence - alongside other shows - towards serialisation in telly. Virtually every other idea is a path well trodden.
 
  
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