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Chastity, Fasting, Sacrifice

18:32 / 03.01.02

How can these be used in magical practise (and do they properly need three separate topics)?

23:00 / 03.01.02

Chastity, much like Fasting, is an act by which one represses their physical desires in an effort to attain a greater spiritual awareness. Basically, forsaking the pleasures of the flesh in an effort to reach God, higher states of being or what have you. So you don't get nookie and you meditate alot.

Fasting requires a good deal more strength of will than Chastity (note to self: make cracks about that later) and, if prolonged, will eventually result in death. Not eating can have effects similiar to sleep deprivation, which has been known to lead to higher states of awareness (aka being unable to think clearly and seeing symbols everywhere, for the cynics).

Sacrifice is a ritual action. Any effect it has, in my less than humble opinion, is based entirely in the faith of the practionners of the sacrifice than in in the act itself.

How can they be used in magical practise? Well, same way anything else could be, I assume. Same trinkets, different gumball machines.

23:32 / 03.01.02

I think sacrifice works. But then I'm fairly animist in my outlook. I think that there's energy tied up in form, which sacrifice releases and consciousness directs.

I also think it's exceptionally bad manners to kill things without their express consent, unless they're mosquitoes.

So I sacrifice cigarettes, bad habits, food, that kind of thing. Also sometimes I'll have a big clearout of old stuff, thoughts, and songs to make space in my life for new grooviness and that becomes a sort of sacrifice.

23:35 / 03.01.02

Personal experiences?
(Theory is good too)

05:52 / 04.01.02

Fasting helps with meditation and seems to be a key element in vision quests. That said, I've always been fascinated with the prospect of taking a jug of water and a blanket into the desert and meditating for days on end. Have yet to attempt such an exploit, owing to a distinct lack of desert in this general area.

As for sacrifices... A lot of people sacrifice their sanity to keep the world stable. Does that count?

10:50 / 04.01.02

I'm intrigued by this idea of sacrificing habits, fasting and that kind of thing. Someone on a magick web site I was reading was telling how he had done some kind of sigil or working to get his cat to start eating again, when it had been ill, and fasted for 24 hours following the working, as a means of re-directing energy.
Is sacrifice something that most people would routinely do following some kind of working, and would it be proportional to the size of the outcome you were working towards?

Most vodoun traditions are big on the sacrifice of animals (and, it has been known, humans -see 'Buried Secrets: A true story of serial murder, black magic and gun running on the US border by Edward Humes).
And I suppose you could assume a fair amount of energy is released here, if you go with the animist model. Although if you were freaked out by killing an animal that would probably influence the working somewhat darkly and would be inadvisable, someone-who-knows-lots-more-than-me-about-it told me a while ago.

[ 04-01-2002: Message edited by: Meme Buggerer ]

13:22 / 04.01.02

I'm not big on the whole chastity thing.

Fasting I find very powerful. The most I've done with fasting is a three day fast with light fruit breakfasts and as much herbal tea as I wanted. I'm a bit of a light weight when it comes to fasting. If I feel the need to fast, I usually only do a one day fast.

But it's incredible.

I've never done live sacrifice in a ritual but the few times I've had to participate in the killing of livestock I've noticed a definite series of bursts of 'energy' from the animal.

Another item, not mentioned in the original post, that I find very interesting is the practice of going into silence. I've done that at various points, the longest being for 5 days. It creates a very strong intimacy with the world and helps your ability to really listen to yourself as well as those around you.

And it's almost as hard as fasting.

13:32 / 04.01.02

I do have some experience in utilizing celibacy in a spiritual manner. I find that it isn't repressing one's sexuality so much as refocusing the energy and moving it in other directions. It's an excellent way of developing willpower (for me).

A downside is that celibacy is rather stigmatized; it freaks other people out a lot (especially if they're trying to get in your pants).

14:08 / 04.01.02

quote:Originally posted by Lothar Tuppan:

Another item, not mentioned in the original post, that I find very interesting is the practice of going into silence. I've done that at various points, the longest being for 5 days. It creates a very strong intimacy with the world and helps your ability to really listen to yourself as well as those around you.

And it's almost as hard as fasting.

I can attest to this. The consciousness one can achieve after a period of silence can be very beuatiful. I hit a point where I felt my self really left, and I wasn't more than a floating eye.....very cool. Silence is a big part of Lynx medicine, and she is the keeper of secrets (a little trivia, there are many who believe the Egyptian Sphinx was a Lynx, not lion). And I've found silence to be
more difficult than fasting, at least for the first three days. Afterwards the desire to eat somehow overtakes the desire to speak.

My sacrifices have typically been strictly symbolic, including the ones of myself. I did, however, used to have to kill or at least thoroughly stun the rats for my python familiar Goldie (she was rather large, and thus needed rather large rats. Being an albino, she wasnt as well equipped to handle the kill, and I was unwilling to risk anything happenening to my baby) I would approach the matter as delicately as possible. Advise the rat of hir fate, ask it to be brave/yielding, and to thank it for it's sacrifice. After all, I didna want her munching down on angry energy.

09:22 / 07.01.02

quote:Originally posted by Brenden Simpson:
As for sacrifices... A lot of people sacrifice their sanity to keep the world stable. Does that count?

Only if you're trapped in a Will Self short story.

I agree wholeheartedly with Ierne on celibacy. I went without for six years, and I reckon that:

A
Man
Who
Can
Control
His
Own
Dick
Can
Accomplish
Anything

All joking aside, it did wonders for my marriage, as we have total trust when it comes to sex. This was why I did it, although I would consider periods of celibacy a means of enhancing prayer (and no, coinciding that with my partner's time of the month doesn't count!).

Fasting rules. I've never done over three days, but I know people who have gone forty days, at which point they're thin, euphoric, and feel they can go on indefinitely (it can be difficult to persuade them to eat again). My earliest memories of fasting involved Dad going without, partly so that he could pray more effectively for money to buy food, partly so there wouldn't be an extra mouth to feed. There's no incentive like a life or death issue.

Personally, I wouldn't consider something a sacrifice unless I found it very hard to give up. "It's not a sacrifice unless it costs you dearly." Although that's probably a personal thing, as I've heard the term used in other contexts.

I'll be fasting as some point this week, if anyone wants any specific prayer...

[ 07-01-2002: Message edited by: expressionless ]

18:30 / 07.01.02

Would you pray for my father's health?

09:10 / 08.01.02

Absolutely, mate. Feel free to give me more details via PM or e-mail if you'd like to.

I pray peace for you too, SMatt. I'm going through a tough patch myself, with people I care about in pain. I know how much you need support as you care for others. God bless, chin up.

16:01 / 11.01.02

Chastity and fasting are forms of sacrifice. Now what does sacrifice mean? Make sacred.
By sacrificing something you are literally making it a sacred thing, investing it in what you seek. That makes it of the divine and that is what grants "power".
An important warning though, if you begrudge the sacrifice then you haven't made it sacred and it gains you nothing. You have to embrace the sacrifice. Remember Odin never asked for his eye back.