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UK Prisoners Get the Right to Vote

  
 
invisible_al
10:32 / 06.10.05
Just in the European Court of Human Rights has ruled that prisoners should have the right to vote.

Now I say right on, upholding the EU charter of Human Rights and all that, but I've started the clock on how long it takes the tabloids to attack the EU for 'giving rapists the vote'.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
10:47 / 06.10.05
Richard Littlejohn is probably frothing at the mouth. Not only on voting nonces but on terrorists not being abused in whatever vile fashion amuses the US military. News breaks today that the US Senate has voted 90-9 in favour of outlawing cruel or degrading treatment of detainees held in US custody abroad.

Apparently the White House isn't happy about this as it will be restrictive, and limit its fight against terrorism. I suppose if everyone but the Republican Party are forced into isolation and forced to masterbate then acts of terrorism are likely to go on the decline but is it really the answer?
 
 
Dark side of the Moonfrog1
12:11 / 06.10.05
Initial gut instinct...

Okay prison *should* be about two things, punishment and rehabilitattion. Focusing on the punishment part, if you break a country's law, should you not be expected to give up some of your civil liberties?

I agree it's your right to vote, but isn't it also your responsibility as a productive member of whatever society you belong to not to break the law, and if you do so you should except the consequences.

Bit silly, but (taking it to the n-th degree) Isn't imprisoning someone a breach of their human rights?

Regarding rehabilitation, teach prisoners that this is the consequence of having broken the law and maybe the more politically savy might think twice about being bad boys and girls again.

As i said, this was my first gut-instinct to reading this and i'm not sure if it's the right one, so i'm more then hapy to be educated by any Barbeloids who would like to put me right...
 
 
lord henry strikes back
12:12 / 06.10.05
This is one of those judgements that is really important in terms of policy, and to some extent symbolic, but will have no real effect on UK politics. A quick google search tells me that the UK prison population is less than 80,000 people. While I accept that turnout will be pretty high (lets face it, any distraction is going to be jumped on) they are just not a big enough group for political parties to attempt to woo, especially when the upshot of doing so would most likely be a hammering in the tabloids.

Personally I feel that this is the right ruling, but there's social contract objection floating around my head that I can't quite sqaure.

Out of interest, does anyone know where prisoners will be registered? I imagine that it will be where they were living prior to prison but I have not seen this confirmed. If they all end up be registered where ever the prison is then that could lead to some local uproar.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
12:19 / 06.10.05
This extract from the BBC article neatly, but briefly encapsulates both sides of the argument.

Prison Reform Trust (PRT) director Juliet Lyon said: "Prisoners should be given every opportunity to pay back for what they have done, take responsibility for their lives and make plans for effective resettlement and this should include maintaining their right to vote."

But shadow attorney general Dominic Grieve said: "Giving prisoners the vote would be ludicrous.
"If convicted rapists and murderers are given the vote it will bring the law into disrepute and many people will see it as making a mockery of justice."
 
 
P. Horus Rhacoid
01:29 / 07.10.05
Well, I fall on the side of allowing prisoners to vote, for a few reasons. Keep in mind this is the perspective of an American, so it's based on my impressions of the American justice system. I still think it's relevant though, as a general argument. If people think it's off-topic, tell me and I apologize in advance.

These are problems with preventing prisoners from voting, by the way.

Problem number 1: crime tends to stem from poverty. In the US at least, the system is also very biased against blacks: they're more likely to be searched, more likely to be arrested, more likely to be convicted, and generally get longer sentences (a vast, vast majority of prisoners in Supermax prisons are black, which has uncomfortable connotations of black=dangerous). This means that you're disenfranchising segments of the population (eg, large numbers of poor people, and large numbers of black men). More specifically, you're disenfranchising two (overlapping) segments of the population with arguably the least power to begin with, and who need representation most. This is especially relevant in the US, with it's astronomical rates of incarceration.


Problem number 2: if prisoners can't vote, politicians have absolutely no incentive to represent them, except the goodness of their hearts. Prisons (again, in the US at least) are horrible, vile places. Abuse by guards is commonplace (example: putting troublesome prisoners into cells with rapists), and the prison population is exploited by corporations (price-gouging on phone calls, cheap labor, etc). This isn't going to change any time soon, and having absolutely no voice in the political arena doesn't help that.

Problem number 3: Slippery slope. I hate these sorts of arguments, but disenfranchising an entire segment of society worries me.
But shadow attorney general Dominic Grieve said: "Giving prisoners the vote would be ludicrous.
"If convicted rapists and murderers are given the vote it will bring the law into disrepute and many people will see it as making a mockery of justice."

Yeah, because the only people ever imprisoned are murderers and rapists. Fuck you, Mr Grieve. Thanks also for not actually making an argument, but instead making unsubstantiated assumptions about what 'many people' will think if this happens.

Getting back to the actual issue of UK prisoners getting a vote, I agree that it's largely symbolic and won't have a whole lot of impact in the political arena. As a symbolic gesture I think it's hugely important though. I have tenuous hopes that more states in the US will follow suit (I'm hugely proud of being from one of the two states that do allow prisoners to vote) but I'm not holding my breath.
 
  
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