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Ethnicity and genre

 
 
grant
14:27 / 28.09.05
I was helping someone at the local community college make up a list of popular/influential horror books as part of a Halloween decoration scheme.

I added a name to the list: Tananarive Due, a Miami writer who's gotten some fame for her unusual Afro-Caribbean (or Caribbean-American) take on vampire tales.

But the rest of the list (and everyone else I could think of, with three exceptions*) was yer standard White Male Author. Many, given the remit of the exercise, were "classic literature" authors, and thus part of the Canon.

Not all of them, however. Particularly interesting was that Anne Rice (exception #1) seems a lot less concerned with gender boundaries & roles than Ira Levin, who wrote the contemporary horror classics Rosemary's Baby and The Stepford Wives. In some ways, she's practically a historian of vampire myths.

This has me thinking about genre. I mean, OK, readers in general still tend to follow genres ("I like horror. I like a little science fiction, too."), as does the marketplace. "Literary fiction" is treated as a genre, but one that occasionally sucks up the cream from other genres. It seems like "ethnic fiction" is also treated as a genre, which struck me this morning as a little odd.

So, I suppose what I'm asking is, why haven't more of those folks from the "ethnic" neighborhoods moved into the gothic mansions on the outskirts of town?

What does it mean to have a genre that's practically as lily-white and manly as the old Canon? Especially a genre that specializes in challenging social mores and subverting expectations?

Or is there some kind of horror cultural renaissance I've missed out on? I know I've seen traces of one in horror films**... but not in the written word.


-------
* (Those being Anne Rice, Mary Shelley, and to a degree Octavia Butler, although she's more sciencey than scary.)


** (Thinking here of Shamalayan and Rodriguez ((Dusk till Dawn)), but also of Ring 2 and even Eddie Murphy's Vampire in Brooklyn -- he got a writing credit.)
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:10 / 28.09.05
Especially a genre that specializes in challenging social mores and subverting expectations?

I hate to be obvious here, but isn't horror a profoundly hidebound and reactionary genre?
 
 
grant
16:29 / 28.09.05
Hmm. I suppose a case could be made either way. I think transgressive might be a better word than subversive, though -- it focuses on things that make us anxious and examines them.

I'm not sure, for instance, that Dracula could be thought of as entirely reactionary. It might have drawn some power from xenophobic ideas about Eastern Europe (a traditional frontier with the foreign Other), but it's also steeped in really unlaced sexual imagery -- seduction, violence, the pleasure of corruption. Even the role of Mina Harker, the "weak" woman who succeeds where the cowboys & gentlemen can't, seems, well, subversive.

Although, now that I think of it, Lovecraft was *also* famously xenophobic and obsessed with bodies, body parts, sensual creepiness. The rule-breaking in his stuff seems more oriented towards the structure of reality itself (nuclear chaos, things coming out of the angles). It's still rule-breaking, but not social.

Hmm.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
16:46 / 28.09.05
Perhaps it has something to do with relative cultural dominance at the time of writing. Is it not reasonable to say that the 1st world- and by extension whites- have suffered a lot less in the last 200 years- the time period in which horror as a subset of literature has arisen, as opposed to horrific myths, which are timeless- than the 3rd world and by extension non-whites?

Japan, for example, is presently one of the richest countries in the world yet is famed for it's horror movies. America also. Wasn't it in America that certainly the horror movie became something as vast as it is today, no? I mean in terms of hollywood? Also Gothic horror in the original sense rises in time with the rise of the british empire.

Perhaps what that shows us that where real horror/danger/adrenalin isn't present, we substitute films and books for it? And if you are part of a race that's been the victim of real horrors- slavery, etc- perhaps there's less impetus to explore these ideas.

Also remember that Dracula for example is a complete and total enemy of the victorian mindset. By creating that character, Stoker's playing with the idea of destroying his own culture, isn't he?

Again, since African culture actually suffered an untold ammount under the empire, there would seem to be little reason, desire or want for an author of African lineage to contemplate a fantastical catastrophe when the real one still needs to be dealt with.

(This pattern seems to make sense to me but doubtless there are flaws: I can tell they're there, so please provide a counter-argument.)
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:58 / 28.09.05
Well, there's the fact that Japan suffered a fair chunk in the last 200 years - most obviously from the impact Europe had on its culture, but also through, for example, being the target of the only use of atomic weaponry in the history of warfare. Europe became a battleground at various points in both centuries, not to mention the small matter of the Holocaust, and the casualties sustained in the campaigns on the Eastern Front number in the tens of millions...

So. I think you're confusing white with "British and American", and for that matter "the Empire" with "Empire" - there was more than one, you know. Without a better grasp of the historiography, I'm probably filing this one under "dubious at best".
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
17:15 / 28.09.05
So, if we go back to:


Perhaps what that shows us that where real horror/danger/adrenalin isn't present, we substitute films and books for it?


And dissassociate it from the idea that having been ancestrally affected by slavery gets the adrenaline pumping, maybe we have something a bit clearer on why horror might exist as a genre in cultures where a general sensation of security allows for an exploration of what creates insecurity, but even then I'm not buying it - also, it doesn't explain why, to return to the topic, a 21st Century white American will be more likely to write horror fiction than a black American, but let's shelve that for the moment.

It strikes me that the Americans consuming horror in the 50s were both secure and insecure - secure in an unexpectedly high standard of living, insecure in the fear of the massy Russian swarm - and the horror cinema reflected that with alien invaders, radioactive monsters, shape-shifting infiltrators. If anything, horror provided a way for real fears to be fictionalised and made manageable. I think the door probably swings both ways.

Which brings us back to why (if it is indeed the case), horror novelists tend to be white. We probably need to qualify that with "writing in English", which might go some way to answering the question, also.
 
 
grant
18:15 / 28.09.05
Haus:also, it doesn't explain why, to return to the topic, a 21st Century white American will be more likely to write horror fiction than a black American,

Welllll, it could be argued that your average black Anglophone has a greater experience with anxiety & horror than your garden-variety white Anglophone (higher instance of stress-related diseases, etc.), but I'd agree with your next statement, too -- it seems like that would make horror fiction *more* prevalent, as a way of working with the issues.
 
 
grant
18:37 / 28.09.05
By the way, although I haven't read it, at least one of Tananarive Due's books is about an ordinary woman, an investigative reporter, who marries an immortal (not quite vampire, but similar) who remembers being a slave -- it's sort of fresh in his memory, given that he's a few hundred years old. The rising action of the story is her gradual discovery of who and what it is she married, but from the reviews I gather the husband narrates his own slavery story.

(Oh, and I was mistaken -- Google tells me she's not Caribbean, she's from Florida; both her parents were involved in the civil rights movement here.)
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:38 / 28.09.05
I think the "male" part's a little unfair- Poppy Brite, Caitlin Kiernan, Laurell fucking Hamilton, Shirley Jackson... there're rather a lot of ladies writing horror fiction. The balance is still horribly skewed in the gentlemen's favour, but not to the same degree as in the case of ethnicity... I think these are probably two different phenomena.

Off the top of my head I can only think immediately of Owl Goingback, a Native American horror writer (who I've never read, but has a memorable name)... there's a definite dearth.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:41 / 28.09.05
It's also occurred to me that I know (for obvious reasons, really) very little about horror fiction that's not written in or translated into English. Unless you're Stephen King or there's currently a trend for fiction from your country (as with much Japanese fiction) it's a fairly niche market, and probably way down the list of stuff to be translated which can be turned into cash. For all I know, Nigeria (for example) could have some of the best horror fiction in the world...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:48 / 28.09.05
(Apologies for the triple-post, btw...) there's probably something to do with the audience, as well. In fantasy, for example, Joanne Rowling was told to call herself JK because they figured young boys wouldn't think a book by a woman was cool. Much as I love horror fiction, as a demographic, I don't think the main target audience of horror is particularly to be applauded- disaffected teenaged white males, for the most part, I'd guess. (On a tangential note, I've always wondered if this is why Clive Barker's Sacrament- to my mind, his best novel- is often overlooked and sold far fewer than most of the rest of his stuff- it's his most overtly gay book, and that doesn't go down well with the teenage metalheads who were shocked when Rob Halford came out...)
 
 
grant
20:28 / 28.09.05
I wonder if part of the problem has to do with the marketing of genre fiction and the business of translation.

I've seen DVDs of Ringu, but I've never seen a translation of the Japanese novel from which it (and some of the sequels) came.
 
 
Lord Morgue
04:01 / 29.09.05
Catherine L Moore called herself C.L. Moore, back in the 30's and 40's, so she could get published alongside Lovecraft and Robert E. Howard and Clark Ashton Smith, in a genre that would often bleed between horror, S.F. and fantasy. By the time the truth about her gender came out, she was already known as their equal and often superior, with an ability to chill to the bone by touching the heartstrings in a way the boys never quite managed, with stories like Vintage Season, Shambleu, and Jirel of Joiry.
Does anyone know of authors who concealed their race to get published?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
07:27 / 29.09.05
(off-topic)- Grant, Koji Suzuki's Ring, Spiral and Dark Water are all available in English- HarperCollins (I think) have them over here, but they're definitely published in the States, as I bought imports rather than wait for the UK publication.(/off-topic)
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:36 / 29.09.05
I think the idea of concealing one's race is a complex one. If I am reading a book by John Smith, say, what tells me that John Smith is white or black, apart from any author picture? Also, in terms of "in order to get published", I don't think that's necessarily workable these days - anything beeyond fanfic and you are likely to have to meet agents, publishers &c. So, it would be more "in order to be read"... which might suggest by extension that horror fans might actually reject horror written by black writers.

I think that the "genre" bit might be significant. It's possible that we might want to look at class as well as skin colour on this one also...
 
 
grant
14:14 / 30.09.05
So what do you think is the class constituency of the horror genre?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:00 / 30.09.05
Search me. I was thinking more that John Smith, white or black, is more likely to be writing full-time if he is middle class, and from there, certainly in America, John Smith is statistically far more likely not to be black. You can apply the same rubric in, I think, almost any genre - how many of the American canon are black?

Of course, you do get interesting generic quirks - like the popularity of the lesbian detective novel...

Another vague thought I had was about whether the concerns of the horror novel are relevant to the concerns of black readers/writers - I'm thinking of Steven King's focus on rural New England, for example - but I don't know enough about the genre to get too deep into that without help.

There's also the question of perpetuation - if horror writing is a white club, and as such does not attract black readers, where is the drive for young black people to want to write horror? And, by extension, is there a way of writing horror that interests black readers? I'm thinking, for example, of Brandon Massey's "Granddad's Garage" or "Empty Vessel" by Lawana Holland-Moore, which (from what I've read of them) focus on themes relating to black history in America.
 
 
grant
18:06 / 30.09.05
Well, part of what kind of kicked off my thoughts along these lines was that I think there are a few writers of color in the canon nowadays -- I think Toni Morrison and Richard Wright get as much respect as (and quite probably more readers than) Ernest Hemingway and William Faulkner.

One of the things that I think happened in the 20th C (one of the projects of post-modernity, maybe) was the dismantling of the canon. OK, so now William Least Heat Moon and Zora Neale Hurston can get the same kind of critical attention that was previously reserved for Dead White Guys like Alexander Pope. But what also seems to have happened is that "canon" now functions largely like a genre -- just another shelf in the bookshop.

There's a wall between genres that seems short enough for occasional books to hop over -- like, I dunno, that 90s vampire romance/erotica kick, or literary sci fi/fantasy like, what, that first Hyperion book. But there also seems to be a wall around the genres, keeping certain kinds of authors in or out. I think this might have something to do with the idea of genre, as well... and also maybe what you allude to about writing in general, as an activity of the middle class.

Which makes me wonder about film-making as less class-specific than books.
 
 
Jack Fear
18:11 / 30.09.05
Very good article by Walter Mosley about the scarcity of black voices in genre fiction, particularly sci-fi. I'll give you the money graf, but please read the whole thing—it's wonderful:

One reason for this absence is that black writers have only recently entered the popular genres in force. Our writers have historically been regarded as a footnote best suited to address the nature of our own chains. So, if black writers wanted to branch out past the realism of racism and race, they were curtailed by their own desire to document the crimes of America. A further deterrent was the white literary establishment's desire for blacks to write about being black in a white world, a limitation imposed upon a limitation.

Let that soak in: Our writers have historically been regarded as ... best suited to address the nature of our own chains. That's a beautiful line, encapsulating a terrible, and horrifically pervavise, idea.

This hold across genres, BTW, not just for fantastic genres. Terry McMillan caught a considerable amount of heat early in her career for the success of her black chick-lit—she was wasting her time (and, by implication, letting the race down) with frivolous entertainments, it was said, instead of writing serious literary works about the black experience.

Despicable... and all the moreso because this criticism was most often levelled by well-meaning white liberal literati types.

(By the way, Mosley's own foray into SF, Blue Light, was slammed by critics on its release, as lacking in the "gritty authenticity" of his Easy Rawlins books... and, five years on, his predicted "explosion" of young black SF writers has yet to materialize. Funny, that.)
 
 
grant
18:22 / 30.09.05
This is also a different tack:

is there a way of writing horror that interests black readers? I'm thinking, for example, of Brandon Massey's "Granddad's Garage" or "Empty Vessel" by Lawana Holland-Moore, which (from what I've read of them) focus on themes relating to black history in America.

See, I'm not thinking exclusively in terms of black readers, and I'm not thinking in terms of "how do I write this pre-existent form in such a way that black/Latino/Asian/whatever readers would like it?"

I know that there's spooky, scary stuff in, for instance, Latino culture. There are la llorona stories, chupacabras, naguals, heaps of folkloric sources that could equal any wolfman/vampire/ghost story spun up by any Anglo-Saxon in times gone by. I'm fairly sure that every culture had nights sitting around the campfire/on the back porch with the older folks telling tales to scare the shit out of those uppity pre-teens. Given that the UK and North America are cultures built on immigration, I want to know why I'm not seeing a lot of that other-cultural spooky stuff being processed into Anglo published works.

Thanks for the names, by the way -- I'll try to check them out. (Ulterior motive for thread: satisfied!)
 
 
grant
18:27 / 30.09.05
Yes, Jack, yes!

Now I'm wondering if I read that Mosley article years back and forgot it.

The commenting-on-our-own-chains thing is *exactly* what was buggin' me!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:49 / 01.10.05
See, I'm not thinking exclusively in terms of black readers, and I'm not thinking in terms of "how do I write this pre-existent form in such a way that black/Latino/Asian/whatever readers would like it?"

Nor was I - however, if you want black writers of horror, a very good start is to have black readers of horror.
 
 
matthew.
14:13 / 01.10.05
doesn't horror, though, have a generally white audience? a lot of literature today is aimed at a white audience simply because they are the ones buying it. i mean, the whole publishing community, if they thought black people was a significant marketplace, wouldn't they try to better cater to them? my point is, if the publishing world doesn't think it's a viable market (black horror), then it's a thought with some merit.

this isn't to say that black people (or any race) doesn't read horror. i'm sure they do. I'm just pointing out one side of the debate--> those who produce the books (versus those who write the books and versus those who read the books)
 
 
This Sunday
08:08 / 02.10.05
A part of this depends on what you consider horror. Clive Barker and Edward Albee have dipped into the horrific more than once, and I would consider them horror writers, but would fans of one consider them a 'horror writer' and would they also consider the other to be one? And that's just dealing with two white boys.
I read and watch more horror from Japan and Europe than I do that which comes out of the States. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say most of that Japanese horror, prose, film, or comics, is written by someone Japanese. Which is, from our default-to-the-white-face society here in the States (and elsewhere, but I ain't speaking for them elsewherians), someone of color. Are these non-white writers of horror rare everywhere, or just, y'know, in some countries? Or working in the english language?
I was trying to explain the sheer number of Indian films regularly released to someone the other day and they were stuck repeating 'why haven't I seen any at Blockbuster then?' And the answer, of course, is 'It's fucking Blockbuster' but that isn't entirely satisfactory, for them or me. Maybe it's really not who's in the market but what part of the market is at the marketplace - uncomfortable and stretchy hair-splitting.
 
 
grant
21:04 / 03.10.05
I think part of what gives me pause is that there sure seem to be a lot of non-white folks in the audience when I go to see horror movies in the theater. I don't know about book sales, though. I can think of at least two friends of mine who're Cuban-American and avid consumers of H.P. Lovecraft & similar, but this is not a good, statistically-neutral measure.

I do suspect the audience is there. I have no proof, but a lot of circumstantial evidence.
 
  
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