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Memehook (From FictionSuit)

 
 
iconoplast
19:51 / 19.12.01
(From the Fiction Suit Thread)
quote: "...there's a basic root meme underpinning RP as an act of performance- that says 'this is not real'- ... Such a memehook is admittedly easier to deal with than the 'am i crazy' one that crops up when you get into magic IRL, but the crucial difference is that you can address that one ... In contrast, resolving the 'this is not real' memehook would require a lot of energy for very little gain that I can see. - Flame On

...anyone want to comment on this? The 'memehook' comment really struck me. Because, well, yeah - I am very much going through the "I am utterly fucking psycho and it's amazingly fun" realization these days.

Sobriety, I suppose, does weird things to your self image.

[ 19-12-2001: Message edited by: iconoplast ]
 
 
Ayrkain Kaivar
06:01 / 20.12.01
Yea, the whole sobriety thing has got me in a major state of flux, too. Some days I'm so wide open to my perceptions that I'm living not in the moment, but in an area of time. It usually isn't more than ten to twenty minutes, but it's really disorienting. Sometimes I don't remember what happened five minutes ago until I realise that five minutes ago I wasn't paying attention to anything except what was going to happen five minutes from then. Then the two (sometimes three) moments converge, and it gets really wierd. 'Cause then, a couple of different messages will converge. By messages I mean observations of my environment that could be interpreted as symbolic or as omens. Due to the court system's power, I was sentenced to an out-patient recovery program, and the guy I "just happened" to pick as my sponsor turned out to be a practitioner. All in all, I must say that it has taken the help of several people to keep me from diving off the deep end in many respects. In the last 8 months, my heart center has been blown wide open, and the emotional backlog has been incredible. Overall, I think it's important to have someone who can understand at least a portion of your paradigm, even if you have to translate into their religious languages. That's what has kept me sane so far. "So far" being the keywords in that sentence.
 
 
iconoplast
17:41 / 20.12.01
Then I'm jealous because, as cringingly adolescent as it feels to say this, I don't know anyone who shares my paradigm.

But, then again, I'm not sure I need to.

The "Am I crazy" Flame On talks about, in the context of Magick, is a wonderful thing. I'm just curious to hear how other people have encountered it, and how they dealt with it - in other words, does everyone think they're bonkers, or is that just me?
 
 
cusm
18:25 / 20.12.01
Its pretty common, Iconoplast. As magickians, we're in the habit of self awareness and modification. With this comes plans for personal liberation, and realizations that we are suddenly capiable of violating every rule we ever set or had set for ourselves as to what is right, wrong, good, evil, or just in poor taste.

Does this make us dangerous psychopaths? We like to think so sometimes, grappling with it all. Its certainly appealing to think so on some levels.

But just because you have a gun, doesn't mean you have to pull the trigger. I think of it this way: Yes, your head is a strange place, quite different from most folks you'll encounter on the street. Isn't identity fun? You're unique, just like everyone else. You're just a little more aware of it. If you are capiable of following the normal social constraints of your society when necessary, and are not a danger to yourself or others, your're sane enough. Are you in control of your actions? Chances are, you are, or at least can be if you stop and realize as much. That pretty much writes off fears of insanity for me well enough.

If you're not, and can see where you are likely to be a problem to yourself or those around you, then as a magickian you are in a unique state to do something about it. At the very least, if you can't handle it, you'll hopefully have enough sense to have a professional take a look at you.

Chances are, if you look at yourself, you'll find that you are actually ok. I on the other hand, am shit house crazy
 
 
Naked Flame
19:21 / 20.12.01
Looked at it one way, unsanity is a way to defy people's expectations and the residual reality curve that underpins them. It's freedom. 'Course, it's also a curse, because you can get your head into places you can get locked up for, and you are definitively on your own in dealing with any bad shit you find when you go exploring...

All of which is rather character-building, don't you think?
 
 
Ayrkain Kaivar
05:01 / 21.12.01
Flame gets extra points for coining a cool word... Unsanity... that is THE perfect word for the magicians relationship to what is considered "sanity" by the DSM4 crowd.

[ 21-12-2001: Message edited by: Ayrkain Kaivar ]
 
 
Re-Set
16:31 / 21.12.01
Unsanity....I like it.

So, has anyone else gone so far as to diagnose yourself? Go beyond the realization/acceptance of "I'm nuts and I love it" and figure out how western psychology might officially label you? I mean, gnosis and dissociation are narrowly intertwined...are out fiction-suits just examples of how we are conscious of our own MPD? The highs and lows of mania, indicative of a strong empath who's psychic censors are out of tune?
 
 
iconoplast
00:46 / 22.12.01
I was reading this book about Rational Emotive Therapy, since I think 12 Step Programs are terrifying in an Orwellian way. Anyhow, it said that there's a link between Psychopathy and Addiction. Because Psychopaths make the "irrational demand that life be exciting." My reaction was, "What's so irrational about that?"

...I'm willing to accept other-than-sane as a diagnosis. Though, I'll have the lot of you know - I don't believe in any of this foofy magic stuff, even when it's got a k. But, you know, I don't believe in the American political system either. Never stopped me from voting. So, like, as long as I don't believe, I'm still okay, right? Right.
 
 
Ayrkain Kaivar
06:22 / 22.12.01
Well, you can see it that way, and to some degree, from your perspective, it will never hurt you. Coincidences may happen, good or bad, but magic(k or no k) will never be involved, as far as you are concerned. To someone else those same coincidences may be interpreted as God's Providence, and to others magic(again, k or no k). I don't think anyone here is going to try and tell you what you ought/ought not to believe, so y'know, whatever works for you.
And as far as the 12 Step Program, I agree with you. My Public Defender was an AA member and made sure that I got sentenced to such, and I'm really questioning a system that needs to perpetuate itself in such a shady, semi-legal manner. I've read about other systems that don't emphasize the religious aspects, nor do they dictate how one should deal with any sort of belief that they may or may not possess. In fact, they actually encourage you to get better and get on with life. I don't know too much about them, though I'm researching one called SMART. I get the feeling that AA and NA, as groups, can be used by higher-ups as a sort of control, seeing as many of their tenets approach the level of devotion that cults demand: no relationships, all emotional validation comes from the group (They always tell me that normies/straights will never understand), and one is encouraged to never turn down an AA/NA request. Whadya think?
 
 
iconoplast
14:08 / 22.12.01
I think that any system that emphasizes slogans over substance is suspect. It's like the way the SDS turned into the weathermen. After a while, they just wanted cool slogans and results and they stopped caring about the philosophy they were fronting for.

Belief-wise, it's really just that I've decided to withhold judgement. Results are all I can know - causality is just something I imagine. So, fuck - if I want to burn my arm with a cigarette until all I can see is a glowing sigil that I don't understand, and in doing so make the meaning of the sigil a secret that, just for a moment, is known by no-one - dividing by zero, pushing its value along an asymptote - then i'll burn myself.

The best thing about all this is, you don't need to believe in anything but yourself. No sky-hook to hang meaning from. It's so syncretic it can even accept disbelief.

Which, I think, is why unsane seems so fitting - I'm using unsane to mean "Acting as though you posessed irational beliefs, without actually committing to them."
 
 
Naked Flame
15:16 / 22.12.01
Some very interesting stuff here, but I think there's a point being missed- to whit, that in dealing with the 'am i crazy' thing, well, sometimes you are. I mean, the process of tuning in to magick does lead you down a lot of blind alleys. And it's ultimately more important to be aware of the difference between the Real Deal and fantasy (my original objection to the idea of RP magick.)

Sooo... there's another can of worms for you to be going on with. Can you draw a line between unsanity and insanity? between opting out and freaking out? G'wan, you know you want to.
 
 
Ayrkain Kaivar
00:46 / 23.12.01
quote: "Acting as though you posessed irational beliefs, without actually committing to them."

Foucault's Pendulum, a favorite of mine describes a similar mindset, and I think that this mindset, in and of itself catapults those that possess it outside of the sanity/insanity loop.

quote: "You live on the surface... You sometimes seem profound, but it's only because you piece a lot of surfaces together to create the impression of depth, solidity. That solidity would collapse if you tried to stand it up."
"Are you saying I'm superficial?"
"No... What others call profundity is only a tesseract, a four-dimensional cube. You walk in one side and come out another, and you're in their universe, which can't coexist with yours."


Sanity is a type of paradigm that can be shared by many people. Insanity is a paradigm that has lost all point of reference. Unsanity is a type of paradigm that either cannot be shared, or needs to be fully developed before it can be shared. Most of us, though, probably can't share our paradigms because they aren't complete. To compensate for this fragility, one who creates new paradigms must insinuate new strength into his own attitude toward his paradigm, lest he doubt it even when it is become complete. The point is that eventually all of these ideas don't just get tossed to the side; that they will become an integral part of your world-view, not just intellectual mind-toys that we toss around like so many hot potatoes. In RP, most of the time, great ideas are intimated through game-play by good GM's, and are forgotten immediately afterward. If you never have to doubt your sanity, by accepting these ideas as paradigm alterations that you can't and won't undo, then you never have to consider the social implications of said idea. The fear of insanity is the primary method of controlling any sheep that might wander out of the flock known as "Sane People". So we have to look at whether or not an idea can be shared through points of common reference, IOW can it be communicated to another human in some way? If it can be, but it is not a part of the currently shared paradigm, then it is unsane. If it can't be, then it is insane. I knew a girl once, who being rather f***ed up on meth and heroin, couldn't respond when people talked to her. She always acted fearful whenever people looked at her. After awhile I tried to send thoughts at her. Immediately, she responded. Neat ability, but unfortunately having it has left her completely unable to deal with life. Period. I think gradual adaptation to low levels of ability promotes unsanity. Waking up with such ability all in a moment drives one insane.
 
 
Re-Set
18:18 / 26.12.01
quote: I think gradual adaptation to low levels of ability promotes unsanity. Waking up with such ability all in a moment drives one insane.


I can quite attest to that. I've taken a few head-trips (not all drug-induced) which left me quite affected afterwards, and sometimes less able to function in a more mundane reality. I had a tough time communicating with anyone verbally for about a month after a particulalry intense astral quest. I could read minds and forsee events better than ever before, but found myself a bit less socially complete. Bars have still never been quite the same. I think some can bring them back to unsane from insane, but "sanity" is like virginity, once its gone its gone.
 
 
Naked Flame
12:00 / 28.12.01
quote: "sanity" is like virginity

... you spend all your teenage years working hard to lose it, and when you do it's never as good as you've been led to expect and despite that you spend the rest of your life chasing after the same thing? Yeah, that works
 
  
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