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Thought of magic/ shamanism

  
 
theremb
19:03 / 17.12.01
Hi I'm completely new and probably out of my depth, so apologies if you think I'm talking bolocks - could well be..

I've been reading loads of boks on Magic, Wicca, Shamanism, Chaos and to me it all seems the fucking same.
The changing of somethign - or the gaining of an intent via will power or thought and practice.
So, does it really fucking matter - as in - the ceremony, the ritual.

If we have the belief (assuming that our reality is the only relavant one) then we an perform what we like.

For example -I've been performing sigils in my head - making a statement of intent - taking out the letters and then throwing it out there (or knocking it out there )

And they've generaly been working. So I'm thinknig if I can do this just in my head - does this mean there is a point when all ceremony can be disguarded.

I'm protecting my self in my head. After all, If I have the belief that I am safe from harm, invincible and nothing can hurt me... can they. The ritual of salt and pentagrams is it a way of saying to yourself, "It's going to be alright bigboy".
I stick with rituals for groundign and protection as I firmly believe in, "Don't fuck with something that I don't have a toal grasp off". It's probably stupid but better safe than sorry et al.

I'm from a psychology background, so the idea of beliefs and Schema from a magical point of view is fascinating. I was just wonderibng what others thought?

Different point - -
Started shamanism, going well walking with scorpions and flying with dragons - happy days.

This is the thing.
On my wee astral plain. And an entity formed from me, from the inside and appeared outside. It was me but me covered in hair. This fucknig thing rocks cos he's a constant protector but... I keep on getting attacked.

I'm chillin out on a rock or space and these things keep on attacking me - they can't break my protective bubble and thwe things they throw at me bounce off. My part of me or projected self - or cerated protectd or whatever the wee fucker is fights all of them off regardless of shape / size quantity.

But everytime I go bak into my realm or plain I KEEP on geting attacked.
(I feel really silly now cos that sounds just weird. A sI'm new to this part of my brain is thinking - read what you're saying - you've flipped). Yet I now that my sigils work. my chants and magic wants have gained results.
but why am i geting attacked on the astral plain. Are tey manifestations of hidden fears concerning magic. I've no idea. Any suggestions?

Another thing.
If the heart of a pessimist is one where the outcome is negative. If the pessimist turns to magic. Then wil he succeed, if at his core he believes he will fail. Is there a specific "type" - that is better suited to magic than others?

Any thought?

Tr
  
 
Lothar Tuppan
19:46 / 17.12.01
I'm probably the wrong person to be giving you advice on shamanism since I'm firmly in the camp that most spirits that you meet in journey are external to your psyche.

Wyrd (who I find to be infinitely more tactful than myself) may have some more constructive advice for you.

The concept that everything you meet in journey is a manifestation of some psychological aspect of yourself is egocentric and missing the point of the shamanic role.

When you journey do you have a clear statement or question of intent or are you just cruising around?

Try forming a question as to the nature of these attacking creatures and focusing on it intently while drumming, rattling or whatever your favorite technique for entering a shamanic state of consciousness is. Then while journeying notice which allies show up and where they take you. Focus on getting answers to your questions. You may only get a small piece of the puzzle at a time.

Once you get a piece, return to your body and allow yourself time to integrate the info. Fine tune your statement or question of intent in order to go deeper and then continue the journeys.

I also highly recommend finding a shamanic drum circle in your area. Working with other people (even if only for a few months as an experiment) shamanically will give you a whole new outlook on what journeying and shamanism is all about.

As for the ritual question, while belief may be the most important aspect (or at least one of the most important) I'm not sure there isn't power in performing rituals that have been performed and believed in by multitudes of other magicians/shamans/etc.

Think of it like a sigil, the more people that charge it the more powerful it becomes. I think that certain rituals are like that. Of course, not every ritual 'speaks' to every practitioner in the same way that not every tradition speaks to every practitioner.

Also, ritual can work like a capacitor to amplify and modify the energy in ways that just charging a sigil can't.

I guess both the shamanism point and the ritual point comes down to the basic question inherent in following any magic and maybe chaos magic in particular which is "how much of magic and/or reality is external to myself and my consciousness and how much is inside myself?"
 
 
Ierne
22:36 / 17.12.01
theremb: welcome to Barbelith! I'll bite at some of your questions.

I've been reading loads of books on Magic, Wicca, Shamanism, Chaos and to me it all seems the fucking same...does it really fucking matter?

I wouldn't say they were the same, it's more like a variety of different paths leading to the same destination. Each path will provide a very different journey from that of any other path. And different paths are suited to different personalities.

So I'm thinking if I can do this just in my head - does this mean there is a point when all ceremony can be disguarded.

Ritual helps the beginner a great deal, both in building up one's discipline (which is crucial if one wants to be a magickian)as well as giving one a time-tested pattern to use and explore various energy states. It's best to know what the patterns are before one starts deviating from them.(aka one needs to crawl before one can walk!)

re: your being attacked on the astral plane. Wyrd and Lothar are more expert in this area than I am, but I suspect that the attacks may not be self-directed. You live in an area (Northern Ireland)with a great deal of psychic tension, and you might be picking up on that. (I live in New York City, which can be a difficult place to work Magick because of the intensity of the city's energy -- there's always a ton of psychic garbage for me to wade through in order to get shit done here. ESPECIALLY after September.)

So it's good that you are taking the time to do banishings and protecting your space -- definitely keep that up. Trust yourself, but also remember that you're still feeling things out.

Lothar wrote a kickass article on Shamanism for the Barbelith webzine, I definitely suggest you check it out. He knows what he's talking about.

[ 18-12-2001: Message edited by: Ierne ]
 
 
theremb
17:13 / 18.12.01
Thanks for the replays. Part of the problem is basically being new, and not really having a notion off what I'm waffling about.
Books are great for theoretical b.g. but I do prefer the straight out, plain english version as it's generally less head frying.
As far as Shamanistic drum groups - the chances of that around where I live is pretty slim. More chance of a blind man flying to the moon.

"When you journey do you have a clear statement or question of intent or are you just cruising around?"

Normally I just cruise around, potter about and see what happens. I've tried questions but the answers are completely indescribable - so much so that when i try to decypher them - I just can't. I've sat down nd left magic alone for a few days and just contemplated on the answer - yet -nada. Although, on a few ocassions the answers have come in dreams (but they were small questions).

Although, it's probably the questions I'm asking.

Anyway, thanks for the replys
 
 
Tamayyurt
19:00 / 18.12.01
I'm not a beginner and yet I've never done the things you've described. So now, it's time for you to teach.
HOW ARE YOU DOING IT? I want you to *please* sit down and explain everything from the technique you use to the first time you went astral.

I am so missing out!
 
 
Lothar Tuppan
02:52 / 19.12.01
quote:Originally posted by theremb:

As far as Shamanistic drum groups - the chances of that around where I live is pretty slim. More chance of a blind man flying to the moon.


Actually, Triona Martin advertises as being on the North East coast of Ireland and if she isn't close enough she may know of someone who is in your area. And Wyrd may also have some info for you when she returns after the holidays.

Don't assume that you know who's in your area or not. In the same way that people in your area don't necessarily know that you are practicing magic, you don't know if there are people in yours until you look into it. If you are serious about learning more about shamanism I would suggest at least really researching who else is in your area and calling them up.

Interview them the same way you would a psychologist or contractor. If you don't feel that they are worthwhile then don't bother but at least find out what your options are.

quote:
Normally I just cruise around, potter about and see what happens.


There are very good reasons for journeying with clear intent. 1) It'll help you keep your ego from interfering with the journey 2) it'll help you stay focused if you start to drift out of journey. 3) you'll find that you will get clearer info if you know what you're looking for, go for it, and then move on to the next thing.

Your intent can also be as vague as 'I'm going to explore that strange area that I keep seeing.' Exploration is a valid reason to journey but just joyriding around is really nothing more than playing in the shallow end of the pool. It's kind of like having a ritual daydream instead of a true journey.

quote:I've tried questions but the answers are completely indescribable - so much so that when i try to decypher them - I just can't. I've sat down nd left magic alone for a few days and just contemplated on the answer - yet -nada.
Although, on a few ocassions the answers have come in dreams (but they were small questions).

Although, it's probably the questions I'm asking.


In that case learning to phrase your questions and then get and interpret answers to your questions should be a number one priority for you. Without those skills you're not in control of the situation and you're not able to bring back anything of value from your journeys.

Simple questions. Clear and to the point should work better than larger grander questions. Same with your non question goals in journey. Start off small, with questions that aren't incredibly important to you (questions for the benefit of others difuses a lot of the pressure about the question and IMHO makes receiving an accurate answer easier).

Shamanism isn't for everyone and it's an incredibly demanding practice. If you find the discipline too much or just not working for you then maybe other methodologies would be better for you individually. But if it's right for you to continue, you will find you don't have much choice in the matter.
 
 
Lothar Tuppan
03:02 / 19.12.01
quote:Originally posted by impulsivelad:
I want you to *please* sit down and explain everything from the technique you use to the first time you went astral.


Although theremb used the term 'astral', in my limited experience with AP, astral projection is subtly but definitely different than shamanic journeying.

I'm not an expert on Astral projection though so it wouldn't surprise me if I'm wrong.
 
 
Ierne
15:15 / 19.12.01
theremb: Is it feasible for you to travel to Scotland perhaps? I'm sure there's people and organizations in Edinburgh, Glasgow or other parts of the country that share your interests and can help you out. I do know there's an occult store in Glasgow in the Merchant City area, they're more Wiccan but it's a start.

Alternatively you could head south to Eire, there's lots of Magick people/places there as well.

Get on the Train/Ferry!

How interested are you in Celtic or Germanic/Scandinavian Mythology? You're in a good part of the world to get in touch with those pantheons in particular...
 
 
theremb
19:03 / 20.12.01
Hi,

Some of the things you might think - BOLLOCKS. - that's cool. But in my head, mind and heart they're as true as the morning sun.

I know you're not an idiot but I'll tell you every step simply - just so you know exactly what i do -

A make a banishing pentagram forward, left, backwards and right - with my left hand (I'm a lefty). Out in front of me visualising it. Then in my head inside I repeat it.

So I visualise the pentagrams inside and outside of my head - Sometimes I throw in guardians If I'm feeling a little insecure or a big bubble of light coming from the pit of my stomach.

I visualise the banishing pentagrams inside my head and push them outwards. So that inside my head there is an actual space - It's almost quantifiable. So in my minds eye it would be 3 metres * 3 metres. Or I push it out to the edges of my bedroom.

- Shit - I forgot salt. I always scatter salt around the room in a circle - I used to be all chanty and, "Gods protect me" but now it's, "Right where the fucking salt". After the Salt I visualise light from my hand shooting out and sealing the room. So I'm protected. I do this in a circular motion or if bored or I don't really feel like it a quick left right, over my sholuder and down to the ground. I always do this with my eyes closed - As it's that belief as I know there's energy shooting out off my hand even thought I can't see it. With my eyes open - I always begin to feel a little daft.

Then it's just while easy.
i sit down in the midle of the circle and close my eyes and of I go.. I just travel.
I know that's a shit explanation but it's the only one I have. I normally see my self in space, me (real me) looking at the astral me from a specific directon, which changes from time to time. So one night I'll start by looking at myself from below or side on.
I always bring my main dudes with me - which is a scorpion anda dragon.

One a realy weird occassion I went up met the scorpion and started tickling him (if it were a dog) you know, "lye round and get your belly scratched", which even when doing it felt really weird. But the scorpion loved it.

I KNOW THIS SOUNDS FUCKED UP IN THE HEAD.

Strange at may seem. The actual idea of what I'm talknig about at times scares the hell out of me. The fact that I believe what I'm doing scares me even more. And the fact that I know it works, past everything I've ever been reinforced with, strikes me as most peculiar.
Like the this time innocent thief. He knows in his heart he's right despite the best public opinion.

Sorry, I'll get back from the tangent.

When talkngi to some animals, they've tried to attack me.
Now this for me is the fucknig weird bit. At the time i needed a way to subdue what I saw as an enemy. And part of that enemy was me. So I thought I would do something that completly repulsed me (don't do it yourself - tiz just an example). So that in my own head I could obtain a state of inner repulsion and outer dislike. if I know I can repulse myself then I also know that the reverse is true - I can find a point of total love and understanding - maybe tangenty in thought but it worked for me at least. Geting past a specific point by confronting and twisting what I dispised into something I could love, learn to love or simply accept.

Anyway back to the first attacking animals. These were big fuckers. I mean they scared the shit out of me. So I just retreated from the plain and ran like a big Jessy. Banishing rituals and complete grounding. After a while I gathered up my psychological strength and thought, "fuck it" I'm going to fuck these pricks up. (I know it ain't very literate but that's just how I felt). Really fucking angry at these things. So I gathered myself up, banishing rituals, salt and went out there.

My scorpion attacked them and so did my dragon -who called apon another dragon to help him.

At the same time in the depths of my brain, a scorpion lay at the front of a cave and stopped *things* from attacking.
*things* are going to be used for tuff I can't actually describe in quantifiable terms. They were *things*.
But I wanted to overpower this thing and defeat it - I slay a couple of them in my travel andf then left again.
The next night - I had a dream that tthey confronted me again and were going to kill me. So I humped one of them.
Yep that's right I banged it.

I went into a state the next day and confronted them. I remember calmly stating an intent, "you can work with me, you can die or I can hump every fucking one of you. You can not kill me".
They worked with me.

They formed around me and guided me to another place in the astral (place). I'm using astral place to describe the place I was in.

----------------------

The first time I astrally projected was just in bed. I threw some salt around. Banishing and then thought - right what do i want to do and where and relaxed into a altered state then, happy days.
-------------

I don't know what type of travels they are... So the words I use could be totally out of context or could be misleading. The first time i dallied with Shamanism. I was lying with blackness around me. And I wanted to reach the bottom. It was if time was completely still. Every second felt like an eternity but I knew it was only seconds.

This is the fucked up part. This wee, I don't know how to describe him - fucker. Came out off nowhere.

I was near the bottom off the tunnel but at the top of it there was a land of black mass that stretched up and around. As if the tunnel was in the centre of a big black square.
The square was cut from the outside and this wee guy, with a strange head piece came running up. I could see him running towards the tunnel while at the same time. I was looking up from the tunnel.
He stuck his head over and these things shot out and atached to me. They weren't harmfull and I felt absolutely nothing.

The next moment I was at the top of the tunnel. The wee guy put a finger to the lips of his head gear and shook his head. Then he was off.

I've seen him around a few times. he's waved to me but it always far off.
I can bring him forth with me while I travel but it's not him - just the manifestation off him from me. So when I travel I'm brigning along the memory of him but not him itself... (I hope that makes sense). So I feel safe because he is there, even though he isn't actually there- just a version of him that I've made up from memory.

How interested are you in Celtic or Germanic/Scandinavian Mythology? You're in a good part of the world to get in touch with those pantheons in particular...

I'm not really interested anymore in Celtic Mythology - I studied it when I was in school and have heard countless stories. They're cool but I'm not a mad fan. Although

Read the children of Lir - It's one of th most beautiful books EVER. And guaranteed to bring a tar to a stone. For any blokes out there- if you buy you're gf/bf it - MAJOR points on the Sensitivity gauge - although - it will make you cry. Guaranteed. it's just one off those stories that's truely beautiful.

Oh and I may well be interchanging phases with out knowing precisely what I'm on about - but that's only because....

I don't really know what I'm on about...

And on that note folks,
Goodnight wherever you are

Theremb
 
 
Tamayyurt
02:36 / 23.12.01
Thanks for the detailed info...I'll try it!
 
  
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