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Advice on conservatory gardening [PICS]

 
  

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Ganesh
19:28 / 13.09.05
We moved to the new flat at the start of July. One of its big pluses, for us, was the small-but-perfectly-formed roof terrace, half of which is glazed in with a little conservatory. It's south-east facing, so it gets the sun from morning until around 3, 4 pm. Around midday, the sun gets so hot that it's difficult to walk on the conservatory's tiles with bare feet.

Which presents a different problem from the usual 'not enough light' situation. Here, we've got a baking conservatory with not much shade. I love plants, indoor and out, the more exotic the better, and I'm desperate to make the best of this. I've planted five passiflora (three white 'Constance Elliott' and two purple-blue 'Empress Eugenie') in pots around the room's perimeter, and am training them up the conservatory's struts, in the hope that they can be trained along the ceiling, on strings, and will eventually provide a canopy which'll cut down the sunlight and allow me to plant things that aren't so keen on relentless sunlight.

In the meantime, any other suggestions? I was thinking hibiscus, maybe, or bougainvillea, again as climbers to shade other plants. I also like succulents, and am considering agaves, aloes, etc.

Anyone have experience of the above, or just want to advise? I'm a verrry inexperienced gardener, and mainly book-lurnt. I crave your teachings...
 
 
Mourne Kransky
19:43 / 13.09.05
He is so sexy with the dirt under his fingernails. Who knew the Alan Titchmarsh look could be so sexy?
 
 
■
19:50 / 13.09.05
Herbs. Lots of them. Rosemary/Marjoram/Lavender don't do too well indoors, but mint grows everywhere (be careful it doesn't invade other plants, never pot it with anything else) and I reckon you could get a whole basil tree before long.
 
 
Ganesh
19:55 / 13.09.05
Well, we do like scented stuff. Would herbs survive the utterly merciless sunlight?
 
 
Mourne Kransky
19:55 / 13.09.05
Basil tree sounds wonderful! I want basil!
 
 
Ganesh
19:56 / 13.09.05
Yes, my little nest of vipers...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
21:05 / 13.09.05
Anything that reacts well to full sun (that's a lot of plants) and living in a pot should be fine as long as you water it a little everyday.
 
 
Ganesh
21:13 / 13.09.05
It's not so much the sun as the heat, especially at midday. It seems to be peculiarly wilting. Even the passifloras, which are supposed to adore scorching sunlight, seem a bit limp and cowed, no matter how frequently I water 'em.
 
 
Triplets
21:20 / 13.09.05
Any way to provide additional ventilation?
 
 
grant
21:21 / 13.09.05
What you seem to be describing is my yard -- bright and brutally hot.

I'm actually waging a war against an invasive variety of passion fruit (it's not actually a kind that produces edible fruit, although the flowers are pretty). If you want yours to fruit, you'll have to become a bee with a Q-tip, rubbing pollen from flower to flower. It's worth it. The pulp freezes well, so what you don't eat or drink (smoothies!) will keep.

What does well for me: herbs, yes. Basil grows like a weed (a small-leaved, purplish "Thai basil" does well), as does Cuban oregano (it has larger, fleshier, more succulent leaves than ordinary oregano). Chives are brilliant. Parsley needs a little attention. Rosemary, ditto. I don't have any mint right now, but I know it does well, too.

The main problem: making sure the damn things get enough water. Gallons and gallons a day.

Hibiscus tends to get fungusy and needs a bit of trimming. Bougainvillea does quite well, but needs a lot of pruning and is *thorny* -- makes a good security bush if you don't want people climbing in, but is not something you want to stumble into by accident.

I used to have a fence draped with thunbergia (or is it thumbergia?), a flowering vine which comes in a wide variety of colors. I loved that vine. There's a not-too-common variety called "golden chalice" that's absolutely spectacular.

Ah! You might find a gardenia bush will pay dividends -- they love the sunlight, and when they bloom, it's gorgeous. They do draw aphids and scale, so keep 'em clean.

Angel trumpets do well around here, and they're incredibly hardy. If you can find them near you. (I suppose I could try mailing a clipping if you'd like -- none of mine are seeding right now -- but it might get confiscated by authorities.) This plant is the belladonna relative that gets a bad rap from wildly hallucinating teens whacking off their winkies under the influence. (Formerly classified as Daturas, I blv mine are now known as Brunfelsias.) The blooms are very dramatic, and the perfume heavy. They're not quite as pretty as gardenias when not blooming, though.

There's a very popular ornamental hedge here called a croton or croatan. No relation to the Witch-Boy's beast-god. They have very colorful foliage, which will stain clothing. Don't know how they do in pots.

I do have some frangipanis that are blooming consistently for me, but they're a bit of a pain -- branches keep lying down, breaking off, being generally in the way. Still, it's nice when a bunch of blooms spill out. When it's cool, they drop their leaves and look very silly.

Ground orchids enjoy warmth and full sun. Can't remember the proper name, but they like being in a pot, and behave like most orchids. (Just sit there for eons, looking miserable, then suddenly you're rewarded massively, out of the blue.)

If you have a little bit of room, it might be worthwhile trying to cultivate an ornamental citrus -- even a kumquat can be pleasant to look at and when in flower (autumn, generally, I think), smells nice. If you can get clementines to work for you, you'll find lots of new friends eager for a taste.

Again, depending on space and tastes, you could cultivate some papaya trees (look very tropical, dead easy to grow -- make sure you get a cutting from female tree, not a male), or even a banana tree in a huge pot. They're very thirsty and very hungry, though -- bananas need lots of fertilizer, especially potassium (if you have a fireplace, the ashes are great for this).

There are also some *small* varieties of mango that may do well -- nam dok mai is the first that comes to mind. I've no idea how they'd do in a pot, but they're not very big.

Or you could go the low-water route with aloes (I *may* be able to smuggle you some interesting seeds, if interested) or set up a cactus shelf. My mother, whose whole hands are green, has gone deep into this cactus madness. You travel in the tropics -- you could probably slip a few aloe seeds in your pockets next holiday, actually.
 
 
grant
21:34 / 13.09.05
Oh, and (I think) mix a bit of peat or loam in with your passiflora's soil -- it helps retain moisture.
Not too much of it, or else you'll be fighting root rot.

Actually, cancel that -- just try using fallen leaves (or storebought bark shavings) and mulch your pots, if you haven't already. That'll help keep water in the ground.
 
 
Ganesh
21:43 / 13.09.05
OooOOooo! Must admit I was targetting you with this thread, Grant; thanks for contributing.

Firstoff, there's ventilation in that we open the doors to the roof terrace on a daily basis (to sit out there, and to let the cats go wandering), so there are frequent blasts of outside air. This keeps the passifloras happy (they like a degree of circulation) but makes me wary of orchids that might be too sensitive to occasional cold. Also, the sunlight's currently a little too direct for most orchids, I think. I do love orchids, though, and am hoping the passifloras will screen out at least some of the rays, so it's possible to cultivate some of the hardier ones. I can work on the (lack of) humidity.

Considered playing Cupid to the passifloras, but these varieties apparently don't produce particularly nice fruit, so not sure I'll bother. The blue-purple flowers are pretty, though, and I can't wait for the white ones to flower (lots of buds).

Appreciate the comments on hibiscus and bougainvillea. Although the doors are often open to the terrace, these would essentially be indoor plants, and any beasties they attract might well infest the house - eep! Might go for bougainvillea, but only if I can find a nice white variety; the magenta ones are so flamboyant I think they'd grab all the attention.

I looove gardenias, and looked at some in New Covent Garden Market earlier today - but as houseplants, as I worried they'd fret under the scorchy-scorchy heat of the conservatory.

Frangipanis, thunbergias and flowering vines all sound interesting. Will look 'em up in my Royal Horticultural Society guide, and see what their odds are of surviving my mixture of overheated conservatory and miserable British climate outside. Papayas... maybe. Thought about bananas, but suspect it'd take up too much space and outgrow its place quite quickly. Fruit trees are a nice idea. I was also thinking about either olive trees (which Xoc likes) or one of the more feathery palms (I'm very fond of palms, but I think they'd die in that heat).

Cheers for the offer of seeds - but suspect I'm too impatient a gardener to grow stuff from seed. I have a big urn that I'm thinking of buying an aloe or variegated agave for - or even a yucca...
 
 
Ganesh
23:00 / 13.09.05
Haven't mixed loam/peat in with the passifloras, but used plenty of those fancy water-retaining granule doodahs when I readied the pots for planting. I've had passifloras die on me in the past through underwatering (they seem to dry out really quickly if you take your eye off them for a moment), so I've been keen, this time, to keep 'em reasonably moist.

Of course, it helps that watering's become something of a routine, the first thing I do when I get home of an evening.
 
 
grant
23:34 / 13.09.05
I'm happy to be targeted!

I thought of two more things on my way home --

1. Pineapples. As mentioned in the other gardening thread, these are incredibly easy, you just cut the top off a pineapple from the store and stick it in a pot. Mine seem to enjoy a *little* shade, but I've seen them used as borders for (large) paths in the full sun and they do ok. There are wonderful ornamental varieties, too -- the fruiting kind are less attractive until they actually start fruiting.

1a. Pineapples are a kind of bromeliad -- most of these are shade-lovers from rain forest floors, but there are some flashy, large ones that like full sun. They'd be bound to get oohs and aahs from people not used to tropical plants.

2. My second thought was about pots. Terracotta pots look lovely, and they make you feel like you're doing proper traditional gardening, but plastic pots hold water something like 10 times better. So just in case you're using clay pots, be aware that plastic is your plant's best friend.


Palms, by the way, love the heat. I mean, they're like the ultimate first thing you think of when you think "tropics," right? There are bajillions of varieties, each with their own temperament. I think you might have enough room for a hat palm (the one they make the Panama hats out of), but I've never grown them -- I've only seen them at Fairchild. Hey, they have a palm guide!
If you ever wind up in Miami, don't miss this place. Hot-weather gardener's heaven.

Oh, and if you're worried about plants attracting a lot of bugs and they're indoor plants, I wouldn't really. I am a bit bug-tolerant (there are lizards in my house all the time), but I don't think aphids or scale would be big problem for a hothouse gardenia.

One last thing -- ground orchids are different than other orchids. The ones I'm thinking of have flowers that look a lot like a phalaenopsis -- those sprays of lots of little flowers.

Here's one page of photos -- I think the one I have (which might even be the one pictured in that other thread) is something like that Plocoglottis.
 
 
grant
01:18 / 14.09.05
Just had another fun thought:

Miracle fruit, if you can find 'em. (They show up all the time at rare fruit shows down here, but I imagine they'd be genuinely rare in England.)

The fun with miracle fruit is that they make sour things taste sweet -- that is, if you pop a miracle fruit in yer mouth and sort of swish it around (they taste vaguely pleasant, have a large seed), spit out the pip a few minutes later, then suck on a lime, that lime will taste sort of like an orange, or like lemonade. The effect wears off about 30 minutes later, and if you do it to impress friends, make sure you're not planning to drink any wine or eat any real food until at least that long afterwards. Otherwise it all becomes insipid.

They do very well in pots, and like the heat.
 
 
Lilly Nowhere Late
04:58 / 14.09.05
From my Los Angeles baked by the beautiful day everyday full on sunshine garden I learnt that these are my favourite heat loving plants:
Gardenias- acid up the soil
Camellias- more acid
Most roses- bone meal by the roots
and the very best-
Helliotrope- these love heat, grow into great whopping trees when kept quite hot and smell like gently cherried heavens.

Also french lavender and "lambs ears"(don't know the real name but the greyish blue green leaves kind of glow in the dark and folks usually use them to define walkways for night time and I reckon you guys might want something to show off at evening parties)

When can we come over to see? Roof gardens are the best!
 
 
Loomis
09:05 / 14.09.05
All this fuss when the obvious solution is staring you in the face.

Move back to Scotland. I guarantee you won't have a problem with plants wilting in the heat. Your carrots, potatoes and turnips will do just fine.
 
 
hoatzin
09:10 / 14.09.05
Mouth wateringly lovely suggestions. But what about winter? Will you be able to keep conservatory above freezing [not sure if it is separate from living area]? A lot of these beautiful plants will not like frost at all. My new greenhouse is just approaching its' first winter and it is in a similar position as regards light; I am hoping to keep it frost free, as it's only 6' by 8'. What are your plans?
 
 
grant
19:08 / 14.09.05
Heat-loving palms: Brahea, Bismarkia (far too large, but this specimen is surrounded by ornamental bromeliads), and Nannorrhops (from Afghanistan, so it tolerates drought).

I wouldn't recommend a Zombia, but you gotta love the name. It's native to Haiti and covered in thorns.

Names taken from this guide to greenhouse palms, which has some pretty useful tips further on.

Just because I have a few minutes to kill, pictures:


Hohenbergia bromeliads.


Neoregalia "fireball" bromeliad.


Thunbergia (yellow)


Thunbergia grandiflora (I had these).



Thunbergia mysorensis


This site tells me they're also called "clock vine" or "Bengal clock vine." (Goodness gracious....)


Miracle fruit (Synsepalum dulcificum)


One ornamental pineapple.


Fruiting. Ananas nana. The left one is from a UK nursery.


Croton

One I just thought of...

Confederate Jasmine
does fine in my yard, even at the height of summer. Is available in the UK. Bet it'd reward you well in your conservatory.
 
 
■
20:17 / 14.09.05
OOh, yes, Jasmine. Even I managed to keep one of those alive for a while.
 
 
Ganesh
21:28 / 14.09.05
We know that as Trachylospermum jasminoides, or Star Jasmine. I really like it, but am actually growing it outside the conservatory, on a sunny, sheltered wall of the roof terrace.
 
 
grant
23:42 / 14.09.05
Ever bring sprigs inside? I love having a little bit of that in a bottle in the kitchen.

We're lucky enough to have a healthy night-blooming jasmine, so once it and the gardenia and the star-of-bethlehem and the confederate/star jasmine are blooming all at once (I think this happened in late May), walking around the yard at night became a real trip.

Anyway, I'd like to know how things go -- and especially how the passifloras (my South African relatives call 'em grenadillas) do in the winter.
 
 
Ganesh
17:52 / 15.09.05
The trachylospermum? Well, it's only two feet tall and has never flowered, so no, I've not had the opportunity to bring it inside. The people we bought the flat from don't seem to have used the terrace for planting, so it was pretty bare. In the couple of months we've been here, we've put fibreclay 'fake lead' Chelsea troughs along one side, and have planted climbers (three evergreen variegated ivies, two flowering jasmines 'Clotted Cream' and a white wisteria) and French lavender. I've also planted loads of tulip and snowdrop bulbs and sowed cornflower seeds.

We've already got a grape vine and clematis beginning to grow over the railings on the other side. On the third side of the terrace, the cream-painted south-facing wall, I've got another couple of terracotta troughs with another couple of jasmines and some maroon-coloured cosmos plants (y'know, the Mexican one which smells of chocolate?). There's a bench flanked by trellis, which I'm growing the jasmines up. Have also hung little pots from the trellis, planted with blue-purple winter-flowering pansies/violas - so it doesn't get horribly bare in winter, even if everything else dies down.

We both really like scented plants, so a gardenia might be a nice addition, as you suggest. Also thinking of honeysuckle, although we may be overdoing the climbers a little. I seem to have found the right spot for the Star Jasmine, as it's growing vigorously. I've just repotted it, so it'll be very happy now.

I guess there's always going to be the possibility of 'summering' or 'wintering' certain plants outside or inside (some orchids like that, don't they?). Like you, Grant, I'm interested to see how the passiflora do as the temperature drops. They're described as 'semi-evergreen', and I reckon that room gets enough sun that, if we turn the radiator on even slightly, they might keep their leaves.

It's just really nice to have outdoor (and indoor) space to be able to do all this stuff, for the first time...
 
 
Ganesh
18:02 / 15.09.05
Xoc reckons that description makes our terrace sound like Versailles. It's actually really tiny - just overplanted...
 
 
Mourne Kransky
18:13 / 15.09.05
L'État, c'est Lui. That would make me the Éminence Grise.

We have fountains and peacocks, you know.
 
 
grant
21:21 / 15.09.05
'summering' or 'wintering' certain plants outside or inside (some orchids like that, don't they?).

Heheheh. Orchids are bastards. I have no idea -- I'm lucky enough to live in a place where they're indigenous, so I just hang mine under a star-o-bethlehem bush and leave them alone until they bloom. One is doing this fabulous thing right now -- three sprays at once. I'm not foolish enough to believe it's because I'm doing something right. I just happened to scratch the right numbers off the card....

Honeysuckle, by the way... there's another plant that does well down here that's called honeysuckle, but isn't the same one that climbs and grows well in cooler zones up north (like Georgia). I have no idea what it really is, if it's a variety or a species or a whole genus separated. Google tells me some of the Loniceras are called "bush honeysuckles," so maybe that might keep the vines to a reasonable number.

The "hip" street in West Palm Beach is Clematis - where all the bars & clubs are. Name makes all the kids snicker. Hope yours does well -- I've never grown them, but I've seen a few around.

I just decided to Google "star of bethlehem" to see what this bush's proper name was, and it returns a lily-like plant that's also called a sleepydick. I do not have a sleepydick -- I have a large, fragrant bush!

Hmm. I've been calling the damn thing by the wrong name, though. Everyone around me has, too. What the hell is it?
 
 
Ganesh
21:31 / 15.09.05
I think cymbidiums and some phaelenopsis like 'summering' outside in warmer months, and being brought inside before the first frosts. I've had a little success with the former, and am keen to try one in the conservatory - assuming it can survive a) scorchy direct midday sunlight (hopefully the passifloras will diffuse this a bit), and b) the occasional burst of cold air when we've got the doors to the terrace open over winter.
 
 
Ganesh
21:33 / 15.09.05
Incidentally, that Thunbergia grandiflora's gorgeous. Might well give one of those a try...
 
 
hoatzin
08:31 / 16.09.05
Most orchids hate full sun. They like diffused, even subdued, light, and no draughts. I think one reason why Grants' do well is because as they are outside they get the nightly drop in temperature which encourages flowering; having said that I know someone [she knows who she is!] who grows phalaenopsis in north facing bathrooms and kitchens, totally ignores them, and they flower beautifully and [now they are big] continuously. The only things I can definitely identify which contribute to her success are fairly high temperatures, lack of direct sun, and no draughts.
Another very easy plant to try is the hot water plant [some kind of Achimenes, I think]. It has fascinating tiny pine cone like corms which will germinate very easily with hot damp conditions [my fathers' first success with these was after he threw them onto the compost heap one summer as there was no sign of life, and loads of them grew]. They will do very well as house plants in winter. If they do die off, lots of little corms can usually be found in the soil to start them off again. There are many beautiful colours and they look quite exotic. I've also heard them called 'friendship plants' as if you get one they will proliferate and you have to give them to friends!
 
 
Ganesh
08:42 / 16.09.05
I know those are orchids' optimum requirements, but as I say, I've had some luck growing the hardier varieties in less-than-optimum conditions. I'm hoping that if the passifloras I've trained across the roof keep their leaves, they'll screen out some of the strongest rays. Also, we've recently put a small bench in the conservatory, and I'm thinking a cymbidium, say, might do okay on the shadowed side of that (which'll also protect slightly from the occasional cold draught.
 
 
Ganesh
08:45 / 16.09.05
Googling for 'friendship plant' gets me this



which does look rather nice. Might well look for one of those.
 
 
grant
14:53 / 16.09.05
I say try sticking your orchid under the bench -- I bet it'd do fine, as long as it's humid enough. (Trays of water? Watering the pavement along with the plants?)

That friendship plant looks a little like a coleus to me.
 
 
Ganesh
10:34 / 24.09.05
Alllllrighty. Back from New Covent Garden plant/flower market this morning, with a four-stemmed cymbidium orchid in deep red, which I've positioned on the tiles next to the bench, so it's partly shaded. We'll see how it does. The passifloras are already scrambling over the ceiling strings, dappling the sunlight, so I've put a couple of little gardenia standards on either side of the glass doors to outside.

Next on I Want list is a palm...
 
 
daynah
12:12 / 24.09.05
I just bought a Camellia "Bonanza" for my Winter Garden... yay!

I'm surprised, and dissapointed, no one's menchioned carnivorous plants. They would do so well in a nice hot conservatory... but don't just go buying any carnivorous plant! You'll be settin' yourself up for failure. They're not fickle, but they're often already dead when they're sold to you.

So... if you do want a carnivorous plant, don't get a venus fly trap. I lied. The fly traps are fickle, the rest of them aren't. Nepenthes is beautiful, perfect in a conservatory, and would look great amongst palms, but is too expensive of a first time carnivorous plant. The problem with carnivorous plants is that they're just so darn easy, people mess it up and kill them. Thus, you don't want to make a huge investment until you're in love with them. Also, avoid the Darlingtonia california (Cobra Lily). You probably could grow the Cobra Lily outdoors, but your conservatory has far too much light for our little American friend here.

Like me.

That leaves, basically, Drosera (Sundew), Pinguicula (Butterwort), Darlingtonia carlifornia (Cobra Lily) and Sarracenia (Trumpet Pitcher). Sundew has long, thin leaves covered with sticky tenticles. When a bug lands on it, the bug gets stuck and the sundew latches on and the leaf even wraps around it. It's the prettiest one, I think, because it sparkles (that's the sticky stuff) before it kills something. The Butterwort disolves microorganisms underground, so no cool carnivorous display. But you get very nice orchid-like flowers, and many of them.

The Cobra Lily and the Trumpet Pitcher, both North American natives, are going to want things on the cooler side... for a carnivorous plant: around 70-80F (where as the others could have taken up to around 100F). The Trumpet Pitcher lures bugs with a scent. When the bugs land and eat some of the nectar, they find it's narcotic. The bugs, now drugged, fall into the plant. Just incase the bugs wake up, the Trumpet Pitcher has downward pointing hairs to prevent any last minute escapes as the bug is being dissolved.

Though this would be a bad choice for your situation, I must talk more about the Cobra Lily since it is my favorite and looks, in fact, like a cobra..



If you look closely, there are little "windows" inside the Cobra Lily. The bug goes in, and he enters a fun house of horrors. The bug, searching for an exit, is tricked by the windows, thinking they're the way out (they produce more light than the exit), and then the bugs fall down into the plant, then are trapped by downward pointing hairs.

Now, how the heck to take care of them

Easy. Really, very very easy.

A) Keep them in living spagnum moss, if you can. I've been surpised, when I do get lured by the dying plants I see in Target (guys, Target is a baaad place to buy plants, just so you know) they are in living spagnum moss. Only thing is, you'll need more of it.

B) Don't feed them. Anything. No fertilizers, no "good" soil (see above, that's the least nutritional soil possible), no water with nummy stuff in it, and no bugs. Just... leave them alone. Fertilizers and minerals in soil and water will make their roots get clogged up. They just can't take it. The reason they developed the carnivorous side is because they couldn't get nutrients from those sources in their environment. Their structures don't know how to handle it. So, leave them to rainwater (just keep some cups sitting out) or distilled water. I've noticed that my Cobra Lily does not mind in the slightest bit if I half the "good" water (rain/distilled) with tap water. And don't feed it bugs. They get bugs fine on their own. You'll over feed them and they'll DIE! DIE DIE DIE!

C) Water it a lot. These plants tend to either be bog plants, or tropical plants. They need a lot of water. Some, like the bladderwort, like to sit in water, where as my Cobra Lily likes to have water flush through its roots.

D) Humidity. Depending on which species you pick, and depending on how humid you keep your conservatory, you may feel you need to keep your carnivorous plants in a terrarium. I've been hearing tropical plants on this list, but also some succulents? You wont need to sprizt your plants like they're the last human (see Doctor Who season 2005 episode 2) but if you just plop them in an old fish tank with the top off, if you have a very dry place, they're be much happier.

What do I do with my carnies? They (Trumpet Pitchers and Cobra Lilies, my babies) stay outside on my porch. Seriously. I just go out and water them when I take my medicine and brush my teeth and they're fine.

So... yay carnivorous plants! They eat things!
 
 
Ganesh
14:40 / 24.09.05
I've grown carnivorous plants before - sundews, butterworts and Venus flytraps - but usually on kitchen or bathroom windowsills, where it's nice and humid. I suspect the conservatory would be a little too bright and arid-hot - and I'm reluctant to install a terrarium.

I agree, though: they're fascinating plants.
 
  

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