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The evolution of the comics medium

 
 
louisemichel
07:41 / 12.09.05
This is fresh from All The Rage.

"
DC Confidential

It’s no secret that a number of changes have been made at DC in the last few years. In fact, in this year alone, there’s been upheaval in the marketing department and corporate rebranding. Some interesting accounts have already appeared online, but additional insight is always welcome. Fortunately, for the past week, I’ve been exchanging e-mails with “Felix”, a former DC employee who has some revealing things to say about what’s happening within the company, and what the company might become in the future. And while “Felix” prefers to remain anonymous, he gave his permission to publish the following forecast:

As for my feelings towards the company now -- I look at things realistically. It is plain to anyone who follows the comics industry that DC is in the middle of transitioning from a (for a lack of a better term) "fanboy"-based organizational model to a corporate one.

The first seeds of this started when I was still there. This paradigm shift is going to mean a radical shift in personnel. It has already begun in marketing and promotions. Within 5 years, I'm willing to bet, 75 percent of the people currently working there won't be there anymore. They will be laid-off for not fitting in with the corporate paradigm, laid-off in favor of people from other entertainment mediums like publishing and TV. Or they will quit on their own because it's "just not fun anymore"--as has already happened with some people I used to know. In addition, I always believed that ultimately the company would be relocated to Hollywood at some point, and that would have an enormous impact on not only employees but local freelancers. And when a company merges with its "parent," you have more lay-offs due to "redundancy" of positions.

When all is said and done, DC in five years will not resemble the DC I used to know. I will be at that point no more to them than a footnote in several files, and there will be hardly anyone there left who will remember me. The company that I worked for personally is no more than a time capsule. And after the many years I was there... that aspect's kinda sad.

I know the above sounds like an extreme forecast for the future of the company, nothing more than another former employee griping. But follow the comic book news, ask around, and see if I'm offbase or not. In the old days of the "fanboy"-based system, editors and other employees were kept aboard--even if a few really didn't pull their weight--because of "loyalty". Because of "Emotions." In the corporate paradigm, that's all out the window. And I'm not specifically criticizing that aspect...other in the sense that in the other extreme, where you are threatened to be fired if your books don't break records during a specific Quarter...it's not so great either. But that's the way of the world in every other medium, and comics are following that. And understanding this is crucial to understanding everything that's going to change in comics during the next several years. And a LOT is going to change.

And it affects freelancers, too. There's going to be a lot of out-of-work "old-timers"--and a lot of them ain't going to be that old! There's going to be more writers brought in from outside comics, and that means fewer jobs for veteran comics writers. If one artist is hot--say, a Michael Turner--all resources will be put into place for cranking out 50 of them--like you'd crank out 50 Britney Spears clones. All resources are put into getting as much money as you can NOW. Screw storylines, screw continuity. In the corporate paradigm, "continuity" is obsolete. Continuity is considered "fanboy" stuff. "Fanboy stuff" is considered "loserville," passe. "Fanboy" editors are replaced in favor of ones without those emotional and cultural ties to the history of comics.

And there is one more angle for you to consider. In the new corporate paradigm of comics, loyalty is dead--so artists and writers AND editorial personnel have no problem jumping ship to the highest bidder. And that affects comics, and that affects storylines. In the new corporate world of comics you CAN'T have long-running storylines or creative teams. Who's going to stick around that long? What's in it for them?

I'm not crying about how this all should "change" and we should all go back to the way things were. This was inevitable. All of us who worked at the company saw this as inevitable, though for many years we "fought" it. And for people of certain temperaments, this Brave New World is going to be a place where they can flourish.

Despite the new direction my old "alma mater" has taken, I will always be proud and honored to have worked during the last "gasp" of "fanboy" comics. Fanboy Comics has produced financially successful and groundbreaking works like Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen, the Giffen/DeMatteis JLA run, No Man's Land, and Crisis. It's cliché I know but... you need heart and soul in the books you produce.
"
 
 
werwolf
08:03 / 12.09.05
seems a bit one-sided to me. for one thing, the current high interest in comic books did not come about because of the classic genre of dc: superheroes. as a matter of fact, more off-beat titles have garnered critical praise. and when it comes to the movie-industry. well, that was always run by same people and they will always want to see another X-MEN sequel or another BATMAN movie. that will not change. so, what is about to change with the new DC?
i tell you what: not much. the 'fanboy' era of DC was at a time when they weren't even called DC. that's long gone and never to return. the quality of the super hero titles will decrease? heck, they aren't that good to begin with. honestly, can you name more than 5 continuing superhero titles out of the DC folder that are worth their salt every issue? vertigo will be cut-off and kept on a tight leash? that's what has been happening for the last 10 years, man. and look at something else: even current 'anti-fanboy' company marvel had to put out titles like garth ennis' 'punisher' or 'nyx' to be able to keep up with the current tide of comic book interest.
so, are we crying about the comic books becoming more mainstream? well, d'uh, medium gets bigger = gets more mainstream. in any medium, at any time. but that doesn't mean that there will not be any quality product, any products for fanboys or any off-beat creative content. on the contrary. i think that the way dc is going - from huge comic book company to officially huge comic book company - will open up a lot of space for alternative and independet offers to flood into the market.

one thing that history has shown is that people working in the comic book business usually know next to nothing about their own business. just look back a dozen or more years at the marvel direct distribution fiasco. most people in the business were applauding marvel for their bold move and saw a great future there. what did it do? brought marvel crashing and taking a lot of the industry with it.

yeah, there will be more unemployed artists and writers. at least with dc. but who's to stop them from going independent. what do you say? it's hard and there's not as much money in it? so what are we really crying about? the loss of income or the loss of creative content. because, honestly, the content is not going to go away.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:39 / 12.09.05
well, d'uh, medium gets bigger = gets more mainstream.

In what sense is the comic book industry getting bigger, though? Sales don't seem particularly to be on the up, do they, and the extra interest raised by the movies doesn't seem necessarily to translate into increased sales of comic books. A book like NYX seems more like an attempt to diversify and broaden the market - by aiming at teenagers, copying the stylistic traits of manga - rather than necessarily a response to burgeoning demand.

Does anyone have stats?
 
 
Axolotl
09:00 / 12.09.05
I've got mixed feelings about this. On one hand the over-commercialisation of an artfrom is rarely a good thing. But on the other the end of the fanboy's influence is hardly a bad thing.
Running things on a commercial basis is hardly a revolution anyway, last time I checked the comics industry has been doing so for donkey's years.
 
 
louisemichel
13:50 / 12.09.05
A book like Nyx would broaden the market if sold in a entirely new market. If sold in the Direct market, it's overwhelmed by more classic superheroes title...
And Middleton goes penciling a more classing superhero title because of the low sales of Nyx.
 
 
DaveBCooper
14:20 / 12.09.05
*snicker* Wouldn’t NYX be more beneficial to the comic market if it shipped its monthly issues less than five months apart? *titter*

Apologies for the obvious dig. I now return you to your thread already in progress.
 
 
louisemichel
14:42 / 12.09.05
digressions are good. Digress all you want, it's... you know, like in a discussion...
yes, Nyx schedule was all but regular. But it was not a huge hit. More like a sleeper...
 
 
DaveBCooper
15:34 / 12.09.05
As regards the genuine thrust of the thread, though… ‘I dunno’ would be my not-entirely-helpful response, not least because the basis of the discussion is a report of an anonymised e-mail from an ex-employee, so it may not be without some degree of hidden/added agenda.

I think that there’s something to be said for DC – and Marvel and many other companies – acting like a business, and not allowing ‘emotion’ or ‘loyalty’ to interfere with the running of things, such as you might get in most other media. There’s probably a moderately thin line between these things and cronyism and the kind of clinging to the past that hasn’t really helped the medium in the past (such as the sudden surge of nostalgicomics the other year, which seemed to have dropped off like the orders for Youngblood issue 2).

And incredibly, my previous cheap jibe actually comes into play here, as offhand I can only think of one other example of a medium where there’s been an NYX-style failure to deliver, which would be Harlan Ellison’s third ‘Dangerous Visions’ book, though as that’s a collection of short stories there’s not that lack of narrative closure or continuation which huge gaps between issues of a non-self-contained comic creates. Imagine if the final Lord of the Rings film had run a year late (granted, the production approach pretty much obviated that, but you know what I’m driving at). Imagine if Stephen King’s ‘Green Mile’ when initially issued in monthly instalments had been nine months late ? I can’t think of a version from the music side of things, but I’ll wager there are some … no, I’m not going to pick on Wilson’s ‘Smile’, as that’s an example of the human frailty involved, so if Kurt Busiek’s got health problems and it holds up his creator-owned title I think more than a little slack should be cut. But it happens with so many mini-series (Dark Knight 2, for example) where you’d think the publishers would have the sense to have the whole thing in the bag before soliciting issue one, which … well, let’s face it, that looks bad.

And as much as we readers may bleat, the shop owners are also affected by this; I liken it to having a friend who you arrange to meet, and you book a table at a restaurant, and they don’t show. You’re annoyed, the restaurant owner resents the loss of sales, but hey, you and your friend have enough good times in the bank you agree to meet again. And again they fail to show. And again. And again. And there may well come a point when you decide this isn’t worth your time, money and energy after all, and there are other people you could be spending these with. I think my moderately heavy-handed analogy is pretty easy to apply…

Though it’s not the be-all and end-all, obviously – Milestone, First and Crossgen were all very proud of their on-time shipping records, but didn’t last as companies.

As regards the idea of the loss of long-running plotlines, I think it may well be that those have faded anyway; the X-titles seemed to have many of those sustaining them for years, but eventually a lot of them have taken a backseat or been resolved (the X-Traitor and all that), and even the ‘iconic’ titles have seen some resolutions of long-dangling plotcarrots: Superman tells Lois who he is and they wed, ditto Spiderman and MJ, Batman tells Catwoman who he is, etc, and it may be that the kind of stuff which kept readers wondering what will happen for years is vanishing, perhaps because the readers themselves are going or gone, or perhaps because the new publishing model means that people are less likely to want to buy an undefined number of trade paperbacks from their local bookshop. They want to pick up a complete story. In TV terms it’s the difference between watching a series of, say, Buffy, and watching a soap opera; with the former, you know stuff’s gone before and may well come after, but you get a story – with a soap, you’re unlikely to see the end of it (paradoxically, if you and many others watch it, you actually prevent any of that sense of narrative closure by making it popular).

I’ll stop now, as I’m kind of free-forming here, and I may not be making a whole lot of sense… I welcome disagreement and corrections!
 
 
Billuccho!
15:49 / 12.09.05
I agree with the notion of "death to continuity," but I don't think they should, say, come out with shitty stories, which is mainly what they're doing now. We'll always have the Grant Morrisons and the good peripheral stuff, but isn't it time the so-called mainstream cycled around and started producing stuff I'd like to read, for a change?
 
 
imaginary friend on the phone
17:45 / 12.09.05
But how can you be so sure we will always "have the grant Morrisons?" Thats exactly the danger thats being pointed out, that this new approach will lead to creative stagnation, that creative, mainstream, excessible and high budget comics are not necessarily a given.

Dying, thriving, creatively or economically, the assesment changes from one point of view to the next. It is my understanding that the industry is tail spinning in sales and that big budget Hollywood movies and hip non-genre work reviewed in the back of Entertainment Weekly and Rolling Stone, regardless of the main stream exposure, aren't doing anything to draw in readers to the superhero/fantasy genre. And that is, I'm assuming what most of us mean when we say "comics." I know I can speak for myself whey I say that I'm not so much in love with "sequential narrative art" as I am with the infinite imagination and mythic undercurrents that mainstream superhero and fantasy comics present, and that it is simply through the unlimited budget of "comics" that these ideas find their best outlet. Though sometimes a love of "comics" leads one to non genre work like Wil Eisner (non counting the Spirit) or A History of Violence, it is the genre "comics" which are most attractive and the easiest to find producing quality stories.

The only thing sure is that the industry is doing as all industrys do, doing as it as always done. It is chaning. I would argue, however, that though it is evolving economically, it is devolving creatively. D.C. can change thier logo and promote thier movies all they want, but thier publishing division remains a source of diminishing profits targeting a small, aging population of ,yes, fanboys. And in my opinion, the pressure from these fanboys is killing the creative output of "comics". A sequal to a twenty year old crossover. The continued reliance on characters who haven't been new since Eisenhower was in office. And on the marvel end, you have a compnay which primarilly views itself as a "liscencing firm" whose newest lisencing icon, Elektra, is over twenty years old.

I think the greatest evolutionary step would be to see the end of the niche market, the end of the comic book store, for the genre to move into where it is already heading; the book store, where Manga publishers have long ago realized the buying power of twelve year old girls, fifteen year old boys, and all those wallets that the big two haven't reached in fifteen years.
 
 
This Sunday
18:00 / 12.09.05
Comics will always have its Morrisons... because every medium always has innovators. Even if they aren't pushed hard by a corporate structure, even if they aren't recognized right in their moment, they're there. Show me a medium that lost all creative, innovative interesting individuals. Forever and the medium then died. Because there isn't one and the mere thought has killed me capacity for real sentences on the subject.
So we lose the DCU and maybe get a comics version of Grove Press somewhere along the line, with a Hollywood model coming in the interim. Didn't kill comics when they did this in the seventies and eighties, either. Resulted in Jack Kirby never being allowed to finish a storyline in any given book, but it did not kill comics. Or, Kirby.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
19:23 / 12.09.05
I read this story as almost a "back to the past" approach to comics, which I have quietly been advocating for years. As the "fanboys" leave, comics have a chance to go mainstream again. It's funny how we have forgotten that most of the best editors in comics came from outside the field, had little experience with it, and were married to maintaining the old copyrights and keeping long-time fans happy.

William Gaines didn't know a damn thing about comics when he came to EC, he knew what kind of radio shows and stories he liked, he hired people who had some experience in doing comics and told them to do their best work. He paid them well (and when they brought in their work) and did the stories he wanted to see. Same with Archie Goodwin, Julie Schwartz and others who came from working in other mediums.

Right now, DC is Fanboy Central as they build up to a story that is going to be a continuity wallow remembering a continuity wallow from 20 years ago, but they are selling a lot of comics in comic shops. Marvel is TRYING to sell things outside the comic shop ghetto, and is, in some cases, succeeding (I hear that the Ultimate trades do well in mainstream bookstores, and the "manga sized" books are selling better than the comics they reprint in a few cases).

As the long-time fans who came up through 30 and 40 year old fanzines move from telling the stories they waited their whole lives to tell to working other jobs, I can't see anything but positives about this.

The other big change in comics that I see happening on the fringes is the digitizing of the archives...I see where Marvel is planning more things like the DVD that reprints every Fantastic Four story, MAD is going to give it another try...I think that is going to changre how comics are seen as a medium almost as much as the rise of the trade paperback as it will make the history of comics both accessable and affordable.
 
 
eddie thirteen
23:41 / 12.09.05
I think the real question is how a shakeup at DC would actually affect quality, and that's difficult to determine. One thing I think we can count on is that no shakeup will ever mean the end of the DC universe, if by that we mean the endless recycling of characters half a century old and more. This sounds to me like DC's master plan, unsurprisingly, amounts to becoming more like Marvel -- jettisoning continuity, making the characters more important than the creators, etc. That's had mixed results. The Marvel of five years ago was pretty interesting. The Marvel of today is shit. So who knows what will happen?

The "darwinism" aspect of this, when it comes to creators, is a little chilling. Maybe there are people who aren't what they once were, or whose styles are no longer popular, but these are the people who helped keep the company alive and kicking to this point. Minus little things like a pension plan or health insurance. If we're talking about, say, John Byrne, who is both well past his prime and a multi-millionaire, I'll shed no tears. But if we're talking about some relatively obscure workhorse who makes a significant amount of his income selling his original art at comics cons, that's pretty sad.

Something I find a little disturbing about this that's gone unsaid is what it could mean for DC's creator-owned books. I don't know that they'd still be there, or at least that new ones would be solicited. I'm sure they don't generally lose money (or DC wouldn't be publishing them now), but a more cutthroat environment is, it seems to me, likely to produce managers who see those titles the company publishes but doesn't own as an unwise investment. Even if those comics didn't disappear, I could see DC rewriting its rules on what exactly creator ownership means.

Incidentally, I find the notion that superhero comics can be generally counted on to be "better" than other kinds of comics off-base. And I also don't say "comics" when I mean "superhero comics."
 
 
louisemichel
05:00 / 13.09.05
I don't mean superhero comics when I say comics either, but if the superhero comics dies, the whole lot of comics will die immediately. Just a problem of economics.
Trade PB will survive sometime in bookshops, but if the sales are not enough to pay all the costs (without the revenue of the Direct Market), they will eventually die. Or they will come to what we have in France, a very healthy graphic novel maket where the GN are sold almost everywhere from comics shop to press outlets to huge hypermarkets, but with the difference that the shop have a 100% return option. And that's quite a difference. Shops pay what they sell in fine, not what they order...
That's actually true for all the books in France, be it novels, graphic novels, cook books...
 
 
werwolf
07:19 / 14.09.05
[let the cutting and pasting commence...]

[quote Kindly Uncle's warm old Haus] In what sense is the comic book industry getting bigger, though? [/quote]

well, i don't know any hard facts from the u.s.a. but i know the figures in my city and i know the development in europe in general. for instance: the comic shop i'm buying for (13 years now) had to double its size this year, because they couldn't carry all titles that customers demanded on their previous space. also, only 2 years ago comic book sales were a negligible percentage of the store's turnout. the last 8 months showed a 73% (!!!) increase, so that comic book sales make up almost 10% of the store's sales. looking at europe, there are now 3 new distributors handling u.s.-american comic book repertoire. pretty good indicators, i'd think.

[quote louisemichel] yes, Nyx schedule was all but regular. But it was not a huge hit. More like a sleeper... [/quote]

very interesting, because it was the best-selling x-men title in stores over here.

[quote imaginary friend on the phone] [...]aren't doing anything to draw in readers to the superhero/fantasy genre. And that is, I'm assuming what most of us mean when we say "comics." [/quote]

well, that is what the anonymous writer of the letter obviously had in mind - 'superhero comics'. again, in my experience and when i look at the changes in my environment, everyone is drifitng away from 'regular' superhero titles and is being introduced to a new kind of comic book they had never known before. so many of my friends and aquaintances never cared for comics at all, but when i told them that 'a history of violence' is actually based on a comic book they went out and ordered it. right now i'm handing out recommendations left and right. of course, i am fully aware that this might just be a short trend flaring up. but there might be a way for the comic book as a medium to capitalize on this trend and broaden its own horizon and also reach more people in the process. if you think that mangas are selling so well in japan, because they are stocked everywhere, then take a look at why they are available everywhere: because there is a mange for every interest. mangas are not only superheroes and the likes, there is virtually a genre for almost every interest. i think, this is one of the biggest drawbacks of european and american comics. while americans focus on superhero and action titles, europeans get lost in fantasy, sci-fi and humor lines. only very recently did the underground get the chance to offer its more diversified content to a broader public.

[quote imaginary friend on the phone] I think the greatest evolutionary step would be to see the end of the niche market, the end of the comic book store, for the genre to move into where it is already heading; the book store[...] [/quote]

i partially agree. having comic books on display in book stores would do a tremendous amount of good for the medium. but it should not mean the end of specialist dealers.

[quote eddie thirteen] Something I find a little disturbing about this that's gone unsaid is what it could mean for DC's creator-owned books. [/quote]

very good point. if dc were to step back from their creator-owned titles, it would mean a sudden temporary decrease of original content in mainstream comic books. on the other hand it could mean a new niche, one for each creator who wants to continue his/her title. whether that is achieved by founding new labels and companies or going to other labels with a long history of 'creator-friendliness' is left to be seen.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
07:26 / 14.09.05
werwolf- the whole "growth of the industry" thing is a little misleading, though. Like economies, industries (unless they are ACTUALLY dying on their arse) are expected to grow... the measure of success is in how fast they grow. (O/T- I remember hearing a great debate about the economy on R4 a few years back- can't remember who was on it, but someone said "SHOULD economies be in a constant state of growth and expansion? What is there in nature that does that?" Then a pause. Then the response "Uh, cancer?")

Not necessarily saying I disagree with you- I don't have any figures to hand, so I can't, really- just that the expansion of comics retailers doesn't necessarily mean it's all roses.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
14:25 / 14.09.05
[quote louisemichel] yes, Nyx schedule was all but regular. But it was not a huge hit. More like a sleeper... [/quote]

very interesting, because it was the best-selling x-men title in stores over here.


That's rather odd, since the sales on it overall have been typical of a secondary X-title...in the top 20 for the first issue, then dropping pretty quickly even without the huge delays. Of course, they also put in Wolverine's Kid, which has made back issues worth a lot.
 
 
louisemichel
15:49 / 14.09.05
Hi, about Nyx. Actual numbers.
Nyx 6, March issue, 36,892
Of course a number 1 issue will sell a lot, because it's a number one. But Warren Ellis says that even a 30% drop from issue 1 to 2 is quite good.
 
 
werwolf
06:28 / 15.09.05
@ Ein Stoat In Der Hoelle: well, yeah, i never said that everything is roses (not lastly because i don't believe so), but i just wanted to give a representation of the situation in my area. and, as i said, they are pretty good indicators. if you want to talk about comics worldwide, then you have to take into account japan's market, the new markets in korea and china (not so new, but recently discovered by u.s.a. and europe) and so forth.

so maybe we're not talking about hard growth in terms of economics and sales, but we're definitely seeing new approaches in marketing, marketability and profitability. my whole point (that i obviously failed to make clear) is that these opportunities could translate into positive growth. it's a lot like the situation of the music market in the early 80ies - all the pieces are there, remains the question how they are going to be used. well, we botched our chance to create a positive music industry market environment, but maybe comic book hardmen and -women will be wiser?
 
 
louisemichel
14:14 / 15.09.05
that I doubt...
 
 
PatrickMM
15:38 / 15.09.05
I think in addition to the bookstore market, getting comics into DVD retailers, like Best Buy, would open up another potentially huge market source. I think there's a big chunk of people who don't go to bookstores, but might be intrigued to make an impluse buy on cool looking stuff.

While comics probably have more in common with books than films, the visual aspect makes them more appealing to people who don't usually read prose, and it would be best to target both markets.

Plus, as people are saying, I think graphic novels are getting more respect with the general public, and also a cooler reputation. The fanboy image is still out there, but I don't think it's the only image of the comics reader right now.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
03:16 / 18.09.05
Hi, about Nyx. Actual numbers.
Nyx 6, March issue, 36,892


Which is only about 6,000 above X-Book cancellation numbers. Admittedly this is good for a comic delayed over a year, but it was outsold by Excalibur, which was cancelled, New X-Men which is getting X-23 and a new creative team to try and save it and is just a few thousand above Rogue and Gambit, both since cancelled.

Part of it is that the buzz around it faded pretty fast due to delays, but another part is that it was shedding readers faster than other X-Books.
 
 
louisemichel
19:50 / 18.09.05
And people here got to remember, it's the actual figures that are important, not the buzz.
The buzz may infer on the actual figures, but except if you're Warren Ellis, it will be almost nothing... Another exemple of that is The Intimates... Never saw a comics launched with such a hype. Never saw a comics tanked that hard.
 
 
Billuccho!
21:59 / 18.09.05
NYX was actually a sleeper hit and is doing pretty decent. X-Book cancellation numbers these days are usually 20k and under. Excalibur was not cancelled for sales, but rather because they realized it was one of the following: awful, pointless, or both. Axed due to House of M so they could relaunch it as "New Excalibur."
 
  
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