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The Best of 1980s Comic Book Design... Ever

 
  

Page: (1)2

 
 
miss wonderstarr
19:11 / 10.09.05
The POLICY bids: let's make the Comic Book forum better!
Let's all do our bit, starting with





The 1980s! that near-mythical decade when, according to the tales of old dodderers, comics "grew up" (pow!) and weren't for kids no more. But what really happened in the 1980s? Records show that Barry Allen died, Alan Moore wrote Future Shocks and for five days in August 1986, it was cool to read "graphic novels" on trains.

Those of us who lived through the miracle-and-wonder years of the 1980s remember something more. The 1980s were all about design... and style! And how. Let's try to break it down and consider: what comics typify the great design trends of the time, and why?

1: Branding

Of course, superhero comics were blazoned with logos and sigils before the 80s. The superhero is all about trademarks -- the three slashes of a Z, the scimatar curves of a bat-silhouette. But the 80s seemed to witness a shift.

A whole lot of heroes were started from scratch, with a tightly-designed brand identity intended to work cross-platform. That had happened with Batman in the late 60s, when the logo appeared on spin-offs from dress-up suits to sliced bread, but without such canny targeting or consistency. 60s Batmania was unprecedented, landslide licensing with a haphazard pattern. The products don't resemble each other. Sometimes they don't even look like Batman.

Compare that to the Watchmen marketing of the mid-80s. RPG sourcebooks, watches, badges, t-shirts, posters, die-cast figurines. They're all part of the same product family. They all have the same imprint of Gibbons' design, which was already loaded with ready-made icons. The central image of the smiley face was found rather than invented anyway, lifted from the 1970s “have a happy day” badge. It was potent even before Gibbons gave it a bloody eye and made it a symbol of innocence lost. Watchmen 3? A ready-made radiation symbol. Watchmen 5? Skull and crossbones. Watchmen 6? Rorschach blot. Watchmen 12, and the mini-logo counting down every issue? A fucking clock! Gibbons was building his design around symbols already-loaded with connotation. Watchmen was heavy with invented logos – Nostalgia, Millennium, Mmmeltdowns – it was fascinated, among other things, with advertising, and it rapidly became a brand of its own.

There’s probably something in the fact that key comic creators of the 80s were designers, rather than just pencillers and inkers. Gibbons turned his hand to similar symmetrical icons for nutty boy-band Madness (or The Madness, as they renamed themselves at the time in a flush of period pretension). Mister X, by Jaime Hernandez and Dean Motter, was dubbed “the designer’s comic”: the back pages of the graphic novel included architectural proposals and fashion sketches. Rian Hughes was credited as designer on Kid Eternity, Steed and Mrs Peel and Dare: yes, early 90s, but I don’t believe we can rule a decade’s style and influence to be immediately over on Dec 31st.

The idea of a designer, someone distinct from the artist, laying out the look of a comic and dressing the main character seems unthinkable for the comic industry of the 1970s.




In the 80s, Brendan McCarthy laid out the wardrobe for Paradax, a young super-antihero with nothing to him but fashion and attitude, then modified the job for Zenith, another selfish, egocentric wanker who was nothing but brandname. He didn’t draw it – Steve Yeowell did. McCarthy was just the costume department.



please excuse my “ebay-style” illustrations: my scanner isn’t working. Bid now for mint copy of Zenith first appearance!

From the confessions of Grant Morrison: "I created the strip's lead character - a young, self centred pop star who just happens to be the most powerful creature on the face of the planet. Instead of a traditional superhero's name I gave him a brand name and thus was born Zenith, an unlikely "hero" for the uncertain eighties."


Compare some classic 80s output from one of the most gloriously grandiose, cynically commercial outfits -- and the costume-connotation couldn’t be more apt – Duran Duran.




Look at the bottom-right of these craftily-designed artefacts. The business logo is meaningless, invented, fake. Writes journo Dave Hill of the Rio cover, in his pop survey Designer Boys and Material Girls: “a facsimile cigar label logo at the corner confirms the cosmopolitan theme… that’s product continuity, a parody of corporate identity, which nonetheless performs the same task as its inspiration.”

next: design design
 
 
Aertho
19:21 / 10.09.05
80s = Kitty Pryde

Excellent topic!
 
 
miss wonderstarr
19:58 / 10.09.05
2. Design

You will note already that these categories overlap: they are only hand-holds for convenience as we descend into the chasm of culture men call… the Eighties.

As above, the very notion of a “designer” comic book would surely have been ludicrous in the previous decade – and the care that now went into the aesthetics of a comic book cover, the cut of a superhero’s collar, the dimensions of logo and logistics of layout, were due in large part to the medium’s new status as post-literate accessory, sequential art and (dread words) graphic novel.

So post-literate funnybook design shifts the form away from its heritage, borrowing from and imitating anything but the dimestore DC comics of the 70s:

book covers, now stocked alongside superhero capers in Foyles, so the graphic novel had to tidy up its act or let down the neighbourhood

magazines and newspapers – Watchmen, with its careful arrangement of typeface and images, looked more like The Face or the revamped TheGuardian than a traditional comic

TV idents and logos – again, that corporate sigilizing, repeated as subconscious spell

album sleeves (recall the crossover from Watchmen to Madness, and on a less official level, Acid House’s teefing of the already-stolen Watchmen smiley) –





compare Jim Baikie and Duncan Fegredo’s New Statesmen to a classic 80s CD like INXS:KICK, and while you’re there mark the resemblance between writer John Smith’s cover pic and a publicity photo of, say, Hue and Cry


fashion and cosmetics – McKean’s Black Orchid (more below) has violet shades of sanitary towel packaging or New Woman covershoots, Chaykin’s graphic wankmag Black Kiss looks like something from Ann Summers –



while any number of 80s comics, including New Statesmen, resemble shelves of Studio Line hair mousse.


xoxoxoxo

The opening credits of Mike Grell’s no-no, notorious post-Watchmen folly The Longbow Hunters are subtly yet unmistakeably 80s with their Farrah-trousers texture --



while Crisis, the achingly right-on older sister of 2000AD, uses a wallpaper background from the same catalogue as nostalgic, ironic 80s-set Vice City.




The point of a graphic novel, or a monthly aspiring to be collected and showcased in Dillons, was to not look like a comic book -- to look like anything but a comic book. Miller and Sienkiewicz’s Elektra: Assassin is an odd exception, with its stubbornly 70s style.




next: mixing media
 
 
Haus of Mystery
20:31 / 10.09.05
You think Elektra: Assassin is seventies? Surely Shenkeewitzch is the epitome of eighties art stylings? It's all shoulder pads, giant quiffs, Dynasty style make-up and a palette that embraces pink with a vengeance...
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:50 / 10.09.05
3. mixed media

[listening to: New Moon On Monday … drinking: Strongbow… mood: over-ambitious]


On the back of the comic book’s boosted cultural status came beefed-up prices, polished packaging and production… plus printing and paper! What could follow to any mortal who knows his alphabet but paint and photography?

The big cheese was Bill Sienkiewicz, who mixed media like a one-man moulinex.




Elektra: Assassin (left), his Daredevil-tangent project with Frank Miller, was a riot of kiddy sketches, cartoon stylisations, scratchy penwork, newsprint photocopies, photorealistic painting and photorealistic photos. The nearest Sienkiewicz seemed to come to a personal style was when he drew like Normal Rockwell. The book was a delirious tour of 20th century popular art, scrapbook stuff stitched loosely together by Miller’s hardboiled script. When Sienkiewicz was given free rein with Stray Toasters (right), he turned into a fucking bronco only the most diehard fan would try to follow. Dave McKean took a tamer route through the same territory… and in the 90s, Alex Ross turned the entire DCU into cosy Rockwell characters.

A side phenomenon was the back-up supplement, pioneered by Watchmen and taken up, with many Moore tricks, by late-80s superhero revisionism like New Statesmen… book reviews, interviews, typewritten letters, handwritten memos, advertising catalogues that fleshed out the fiction into an alternative universe. Which segues us without a break into another niche I’ll call

4. Pastiche

Of course, comics growing up was the biggest story of the 1980s, but while trendy creators like Alan Moore navigated his scarlet Porsche towards another signing at London’s hip post-literate emporium Forbidden Planet, lighting a cigar with the first of many Fifty Pound Notes and snorting designer drug cocaine while beside him, whizzkid artist Dave Gibbons guzzled champagne and shouted instructions to his yuppie stocks dealer… while all this was going on, I say, some dusty profs were puzzling over a new theory what they called… POST-MODERNISM.

Eager to latch onto the newest trends, Alan had asked a uni friend what POST-MODERNISM was all about, and got the gist that it concerned “pastiche” – a kind of recycling, quoting and borrowing from other cultural sources, blurring the boundaries between high and low.

“This sounds like something we can use, Dave!” he enthused, his nose fizzing from the fat line of coke as they approached Forbidden Planet and a crowd of cheering fangirls. “Let’s ‘recycle’ some of old man Charlton’s characters, give them a new spin and launch them to a hungry public,” he chuckled. “And while we’re at it, I have a notion that really brings us to the forefront of post-literate visual arts. POST-MODERNISM is about quoting, right? I’m going to lob in some quotes at the start and end of each chapter. Says here you need high and low culture to be POST-MODERN.” Alan dug in the glove compartment, finding two cassettes by his favourite artists Elvis Costello and Bob Dylan, plus a Gideon’s Bible from the last hotel they’d wrecked! “Here, this’ll do, Dave! Find us a quote from the songwords and something from the God-botherers!”

“Right-o, Alan,” Dave Gibbons laughed, wiping foamy champers from his lips and waving to the girls dressed as Dan Dare – he was sure Dan hadn’t worn a mini-skirt, but he wasn’t complaining! – “I’ll just ring Tristan and tell him to buy shares in POST-MODERNISM!”

That’s how it began, and soon Alan and Dave’s hangers-on like J M DeMatteis and Neil Gaiman were getting in on the game, shoehorning literary references and half-understood epigrams from quotation books into their own comics.

more pics soon in the next chapter, poetically-entitled “Fragments”
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:51 / 10.09.05
Please argue with me as much as you like! I am just trying to give the forum a bit of food for thought. Back tomorrow, probably.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:59 / 10.09.05
NB. I meant the cover of Elektra: Assassin #1 looked 1970s in its old-fashioned, Marvel comic book house style, when compared to other tpbs of the period that aspire to resemble albums, magazines, books.
 
 
Mario
21:09 / 10.09.05
I happen to know that Walter Simonson, who did a lot of work in the 1980's, uses a lot of design elements in his comics. This may be relevant.
 
 
Aertho
23:00 / 10.09.05
"design elements"

?

like boxes? stripes? words?

Perhaps you and Simonson meant contemporary design considerations, aping style, zeitgeisty colors and whatnot. Such as?
 
 
grant
01:13 / 11.09.05
You're skipping the Pander Bros Grendel books, which (like Love & Rockets and, a little less, a few of the splash-pages in Flaming Carrot) combined retro artifacts (or artifice) with design sensibility -- or at least, a different sense of cartooning. (Of course, having a heroine who looked like a Nagel was a big thing, too.)

I remember pointing out to someone how the cool thing about the latest Grendel (in 1988, I think) was the way the Kabuki vampire dude kept violating the frame.


I have a feeling that kind of cartoony use of diagrams and fooling around with frame boundaries was done in gag strips in the 1950s, but I don't think it was until the 1980s that people really started playing with the conventions in quite the same way while telling "dramatic" (or at least, not-joke-oriented) stories. (The psychedelic stuff in the late 60s hero comics Kirby did, with the Max-Ernsty xerox collage art, that was a different kind of game.)

The first Grendel run was also really interesting, in that it was barely even a comic -- more like an illustrated (and nicely designed) adventure story. Big blocks of text, framed by deco-style borders and illustrations. Can't find any samples on the net, but I suppose I could dig up my old copies and scan a page or two if anyone's interested.
 
 
Mario
02:19 / 11.09.05
All sorts of things. Panel shapes, integrating sound effects in art, even the way he shows things like magic spells. I know for a fact, for example, that he based one of the covers of his ORION series on Russian propaganda posters.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
09:01 / 11.09.05
pouring diesel coffee down my neck, it's time to tackle

5. Fragmentation

Like the literary references and epigraphs (did I say "epigram"? I always mix them up) in the last section, this is a borderline "design" element, but one that does affect the layout of words on the page.

Another key trait of the postmodern is the breakdown of grand narratives, in many senses -- the supposed failure of big, overarching, explanatory discourses like Christianity and Communism, and a tendency towards bitty, broken, small-circling, looping, little narratives (instead of straight linear paths from start to finish) in fiction and film.


Watchmen, of course, is chock fulla flashbacks that break up the straight story, leaping us about in time as though we were all in an episode of Lost. The post-, often sub-Watchmen superhero tales took up this disjointed form of narrative: Longbow Hunters, Black Orchid, New Statesmen all kick into reveries, often prompted by clever visual echoes on the page (you know the thing: gritty antihero watches the shadow of his quarry, and suddenly it's all gone sepia, and the shadow's his daddy standing in his bedroom door when he was 10).


But this fragmentation also takes another form, with the breakdown of actual panels on the page into a scattering of phrases, even just isolated words. Arguably inspired by Frank Miller’s hybrid style of hard-boiled noir with a Japanese storytelling influence, we can see this wordstorm taken to a perhaps ludicrous extreme in a page from John Smith’s New Statesmen. Flashbacks to childhood trauma – a dolly’s head, that prop passed from one gritty superhero epic to another (it also crops up twice in Zenith) – an anguished gay hero – a cut-up (Beats-influenced?) prosepoem, I – whitefire – it’s all -- mommy no

I think

I can’t –

lucky youngster

mommy I can’t wear that –

it’s all falling into

blood and

metaltaste



6. Where

was

I… (whitelight)
O yes

CINEMATIC STORYBOARDING


Another fashion we can pin on Miller, I think, rather than Moore: and again, I suggest he imported this from his investigations into Japanese narrative style, combined perhaps with that parallel interest in the 1930s gangster and 1940s private eye movies.

The old-skool Marvel style, as I remember it – I even read a book once called How To Draw Comics the Marvel Way – was about maximum variety and variation. One panel should never be drawn from the same angle as the next. Never take a straight-on view if you can give us a fresh, more dynamic perspective. A conversation might be depicted with huge geographical leaps between panels, even though the dialogue continues from frame to frame, eg.

1. [Mr Fantastic and the Torch in a 7th floor office]

Reed: If DOOM really is back in town, we NEED the FOUR together, Johnny!

Johnny: Yeah, Reed – I’ve HEARD it all BEFORE!

2. [Mr Fantastic and the Torch leaving the building at street level]

Johnny: But this time I MEAN it! The Torch is OUT for good!

I think I’m safe in saying that you would never see a page with nine panels viewed from essentially the same angle, as if from a fixed camera recording a frame every thirty seconds, and with no words or captions. Can you imagine Stan holding his tongue for a whole page, nine panels of wordless pictures! He’d have to point out he wasn’t talking, and then the next panel would be all “sorry, reader! We just couldn’t button-up our LIPS during an adventure as astonishingly earth-shattering as THIS!”

From the period when he got into his stride and found his style on Daredevil, though, Miller started telling some scenes in cinematic frames, holding the same angle over a single action and letting the pictures do all the work. It’s a trait taken up occasionally by Steve Yeowell, but here’s an example from Chaykin, whom some might call a poor-man’s Miller – two pages from Blackhawk that, even with my inferior ebay-style reproduction, look much more like film strip than conventional comic book.



next: ICONS
 
 
miss wonderstarr
09:03 / 11.09.05
You're skipping the Pander Bros Grendel books,

Cause I haven't read them! But thanks for chipping in... I can't hope and am not attempting to provide anything like a full overview, and if we're going to give the 80s their due I think we all have to do our bit.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
09:35 / 11.09.05
7. Icons



Overlapping like a Venn diagram with the section above on “branding”, but I’m feeling towards another possible reason for the tendency for all those icons, the neat corporate symbols and little badge-logos like the four you see above on the back covers of Crisis.

Of course, one one level it simply enabled a convenient commercial branding of the product across various forms – those little symbols like Dr Manhattan’s atom and Rorschach’s blot would actually be sold as badges by Forbidden Planet.

At the same time, there’s the factor that these comic books – Watchmen and Crisis, for example – offered a critical or ironic commentary on capitalist brand culture, even while DC and Fleetway stoked up their own mini-industry of spinoffs.

But I wonder if the liking for icons also has something to do with the development of the gloriously-named GUI, graphical user interface, and the icon-based, rather than text-heavy, computer screen.

Now, I was using the mighty 48k ZX Spectrum at the time, then graduating to the C64, but we were experiencing the trend too, with the first icon-driven arcade adventure, Shadowfire. Slogan: “We created an adventure game… and destroyed the text.”



I don’t know. Is there anything in it? Can we suggest a link between this kind of icon-driven page and Morrison’s much more recent use (in “One Million”) of JLA symbols and sigils in a computer-style interface, with captions cropping up like Windows across the page – and Jeph Loeb’s



where the words, the names are unnecessary and the two comic-book icons have been reduced to just that, a visual language of icons?

later: final installment (from me at least) -- COLLECT THE SET
 
 
miss wonderstarr
11:09 / 11.09.05
8. Collect the Set

Another factor feeding into and off from the comic book’s increased cultural status was the idea that the monthly episode wasn’t just a throwaway, fun adventure but something to be kept, collected. If you missed a month of Watchmen you’d lost way more than just April’s dose of two-fisted action – you were without some of the key cogs that made the story click.

This led, of course, into an expanded collector culture where it seemed briefly that comics were going to be a valuable investment – where business suits bought one issue to bag, one to read – where companies pumped up the sales by rebooting long-running titles to collectable #1, launching holographic gimmicks, foil-embossed logos and alternate covers.

But on a lesser, less detestable level, the prestige-format mini-series created a different type of design where three issues, or six, or twelve, were all carefully crafted in the same mould, as a short-lived sub-brand of (usually) DC comics.



McKean’s Black Orchid covers were pretty confections individually, but having all three on your shelf looked pleasingly like a range of Body Shop Dewberry face scrub, foot soak and hand cream: matched and complementary but subtly different.



The Watchmen images are striking individually, but the gleeful symmetry comes out when you look at them as a set – again, the variations in colour and image drawn together through a common template, like products within the same range.

And here I can save my breath, letting the pics speak, as I show you the front covers of Crisis (seem to be missing issue 3, but #1 is signed by Mills and Esquerra! Bid now)



Dark Knight Returns, if you skip the battered Batman of #3, has a nice repeated device of shadows and silhouettes:



Love and Rockets, when repacked by Titan in graphic novel format with intros by Angela Carter, brings together the very different styles and stories of the Hernandez brothers into a funky cosmetic kit for Eighties chicas:



And Kid Eternity offers the biggest bonus: collect the set and build into a 3-part pin-up of the protagonist.



These weren’t designed to be picked up at random, rolled up in a pocket and passed on to a friend – these were collectors’ items, incomplete without the full run.

that’s all for now, from me:

though I wonder if we could consider the same approach to early-90s comic books? The increased use of photography, the dominance of Dave McKean, the curly gold calligraphy… the Sandman aesthetic and its relationship to a new readership not of traditional comic fanboys, but gothic girls?

That’s for another day, and/or another person.
 
 
matsya
22:07 / 11.09.05
threadrot

Shadowfire! Holy fuck I had totally forgotten about the existence of that game! Off to the 64 emu sites with me!

/threadrot

This is a lovely essay, kudos kovacs. Not my experience of the 80s at all, though. All of these things did become evident to me over time, but I was in my 20s and occupying the mid-90s as I came across all of these things in retrospect. I suppose that comes from living in an Australian country town and only ever buying comics second-hand (thus reading mainly 70s and early 80s Marvels), apart from a brief time in the late 80s when there were comics at the newsagent, but that was all your by-the-numbers Marvel and DC, really.

Any thoughts on how these trends have been incorporated into the comics of today?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:37 / 12.09.05
Thanks for getting through it all, Matsya. I would tend to think that these trends, which distinguished 80s comics from 1970s comics, set a basis for most comics in the 1990s and 00s. (I suppose I'm mostly talking mainstream superhero comics here though, and mostly DC comics, just because that's what I always bought.)

It's not as if we saw any return to cheap paper and the classic Marvel style of intrusive-narrator storytelling in the next decades, except in pastiches like those "What If Stan Lee Wrote the JLA" experiments, or Morrison's Kirbyesque episode of Doom Patrol. The fact that these are now seen as witty, nostalgic exercises in a distinct style indicates that this style is now far from the norm in comic books.

Superhero comics on the monthly rack do now tend to look like comics, unlike the 80s titles I cited, which were pretending to be anything but -- perhaps because the post-literate graphic novel bubble burst, and the wider readership shrunk, and superheroes have retreated back into the more specialist ghetto again. In terms of branding, though, there seem to be a multiplicity of banners blazoned on the covers, showing you what miniseries or sub-story this title belongs to: Countdown to Infinite Crisis, Seven Soldiers, Villains United.

But really I don't read as many comics now, and even then, as indicated, my tastes were pretty mainstream for the most part, so I'm only guessing. I do think it'd be worth thinking about the broader readership Sandman brought in, and that pretty-Gothic design, and cast of androgynous indie kids we saw across Vertigo in the early 1990s.
 
 
grant
21:20 / 12.09.05
I wonder -- one of the things I remember most vividly from the 80s were what my friends called "art-fag comics." They were the ones that had "arty" covers, usually done in watercolor, although Sienkiewicz's collage-style (I own a Daredevil story he did where he used wallpaper to make Kingpin's jacket and tie) would also count.

I was a sucker for any of those -- started buying Sandman because of the McKean cover (that was late 80s, right?), and bought the full run of the Eclipse Moonshadow (and the less fun Blood) because of the watery art.

I think that self-conscious aping of "fine art" is a postmodern tendency -- comics becoming aware of themselves as art.


Oh, and just to keep harping on Grendel (a series that I think singlehandedly kept Comico afloat), you can see vivid examples of fragmentation in the Bernie Mireault run following the Pander Bros' pop-art run (in which Brian Li-Sung, the handsome Asian fellow in the two pages I linked to above, descends into madness), and then in one of the stories after that, Mr. Wagner does his own damn art in a similar sort of cinematic style, with the repeated series of similar images -- his were always like TV screens with words underneath instead of speech balloons, something like 12 frames or more to a page. I actually found them fascinating to look at but hard to read.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
22:01 / 12.09.05
So true... I once bought a copy of the glossy fanzine Arkensword with a feature on Jon J Muth and Kent Williams, and it was a task to tell the two styles apart. That pretence to fine art is, I'd agree, related to the comics-are-literature notion... they're not just like real books, they're like real paintings too.



Let's keep this thread alive, cause Guardian readers might be looking at it right now!
 
 
matsya
01:30 / 13.09.05
That link ain't workin', kovacs.

I remember that Havok/Wolverine book. Remember being ambivalently confused by it. I think it was a dumb story too, but the art didn't work for me - but you know? It was because it wasn't enough like a COMIC.

I've just been re-reading some of Moore's Swamp Thing dealies from around that time, and there's this one issue that's all single-page-panel stuff with a weird typewriter font in the narrative that seems to fit in with the design experimentation that we're talking about here. Problem is that, again, for me, it doesn't read like a comic to me, and thus I tend to scan over it and my concentration gets broken. It's almost like that subtle fusion between word and image is unbablanced by the strength of the images. To be honest I've always had trouble with Sienkewicz's art in the same kind of way - it somehow disrupts my reading processes. But Dave McKean doesn't. That seems odd. Then again, it might have to do with the quality of the writing. Most of Miller's work bores me to tears, and Moore was at his most poetically purple in that period.

When did Cages come out? It seems to sit nicely in the comic-as-art era, as does Ted McKeever's Plastic Forks.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
06:51 / 13.09.05
The link is http://jobsadvice.guardian.co.uk/officehours/story/0,,1567587,00.html

It quotes some guy, goes by the hook 'sleazenation', which rings a bell for some reason.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
07:15 / 13.09.05
I think Grendel was a perfect example of design in comics. As grant says, sometimes it was hard to read, but it had a different design aesthetic (as well as a diffrent artist) for each arc. And when it worked (the Eppy Thatcher storyline, with the "newspaper-style comic strip at the bottom which parallelled the events taking place in the actual story) it was absolute genius) it was breathtaking.
 
 
sleazenation
07:49 / 13.09.05
I believe Cages 1-8 came out 1991-1993 with the last two issues coming out in 1996.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
08:46 / 13.09.05
The fully painted 'Havok/Wolverine' story was ,to my mind, the nadir of pretentious fully painted 'grown up' comics. A totally generic superhero story rendered virtually unreadable by totally unsuitable artwork. I remember a glut of horrible painted Wolverine 'prestige' specials that arrived in the wake of 'Elektra', 'Black Orchid', 'Kid Eternity' and the rest...Horrid.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
11:41 / 13.09.05
the nadir of pretentious fully painted 'grown up' comics. A totally generic superhero story rendered virtually unreadable by totally unsuitable artwork

Surely this was Arkham Asylum! Subtitle: "A Serious House on Serious Earth."

Can anyone find pics of this Grendel or other examples? I would like to see, as I'm not familiar with all the other material you're mentioning. Sorry about that weak link above.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
11:50 / 13.09.05
Nope I'm pretty sure it was the one I mentioned. As rough a ride as 'Arkham' gets, it's horror movie overtones, somewhat justify the over-production. 'Meltdown' is just a Wolvie and Havok team-up stretched out over six 'prestige' issues.
The highpoint of design re: Grendel is IMO Matt Wagner's initial one-shot Devil by the Deed, whose innovative page layout, and use of text rather than speech bubbles gives the whole thing the feel of an art-deco storybook. The City's architcture becomes part of the panel design etc.. A very 80's take on Will Eisner if you will.
 
 
Ganesh
11:51 / 13.09.05
I seem to remember finding that Havok/Wolverine thing unintentionally funny: something about the way gorgeous (if sliiightly po-faced) painted artwork was matched with seriously sub-standard dialogue. While I don't have it to hand, I'm pretty sure there's a panel featuring the female love interest aghast at a television set that Havok's just blown up (or something), exquisitely rendered but saying something like, "The TV, gone! Fried!"

Although I dabbled with 2000AD in my early teens, I came to comics relatively late - 19, 20 - (re)discovering them via the collected trade paperbacks which began appearing in mainstream bookshops. The heavily-designed glossy graphic novel format's what piqued my interest and drew me in. Previously, it'd never have occurred to me to follow comics writers/artists the way I would favourite authors.
 
 
Lord Morgue
11:58 / 13.09.05
Raw had to be the king of '80's graphic design comics, oh, oh, but Piranha Press! Remember them? As for the mainstream, everyone remembers Chaykin and Simonson playing with Xerox and Zip-a-tone, but do you recall MARSHALL FUCKING ROGERS and his crazy op-art pop-art billboard TRON style Batman?
The Pander Bros. Grendel was Aeon Flux before she was a twinkle in Peter Chung's eye...
Meh, but every time some big-deal advertising artist or whatever was recruited to "save" comics, it seemed to go the same way as photo-realist artwork, it was the storytelling that suffered.
Though I still got a soft spot for Ann Nocenti's "Someplace Strange".
 
 
miss wonderstarr
12:11 / 13.09.05
Actually, I wonder if the Alex Ross "War on Crime", "Peace on Earth" huge-format volumes, with a single kindergarten sentence in large print under every ginormous glossy painting (I exaggerate perhaps) represent one extreme end of the comics-as-art-book trend. I've not been tempted to spend my money on them as they look like collections of posters with a couple of captions telling the story, but it could be argued that they're a daft, dead-end move away from what makes comic books unique and effective -- a continuation of that 80s attempt to make comics look like something "higher", which ultimately strips away everything good about the medium.

That was bit incoherent I'm afraid (difference between posting at work and writing big photo essay on Sunday morning) but perhaps you see what I mean.
 
 
sleazenation
19:18 / 13.09.05
The sad thing to note is how many of the most experimental and cuting edge comics artists (Rian Hughes, Jamie Hewligan, Brendan McCarthy) have left the industry to pursue more profitable careers in animation, typography and graphic design...
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
03:51 / 15.09.05
The sad thing to note is how many of the most experimental and cuting edge comics artists (Rian Hughes, Jamie Hewligan, Brendan McCarthy) have left the industry to pursue more profitable careers in animation, typography and graphic design...

It's been like that forever, though. Jack Davis, Krigstein, Kurtzman and Sternanko are just the ones off the top of my head that went on to make a LOT more money in advertising.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
09:45 / 15.09.05
Kurtzman was somewhat broken by going to work for Hef apparently - a good deal of creative control was removed by Playboy editorial. And Jack Cole (an undisputed visionary of the comics medium - read his Plastic man stories for proof) ended up severely depressed (he eventually killed himself) having left comics for cartooning (I believe for Playboy once again). One problem must be that of leaving a small pond as a big fish etc... Those lauded within a medium as often disrespected as comics may not recieve such accolades outside of it.
 
 
admiral sausage
13:59 / 15.09.05
What/who were the influences on the aesthetics of 80's comics, out side of other comics ?

Warhols pal, Jean-Michel Basquiat



Illustrator, Barron Storey was clearly a big influence on Dave Mckean and Bill Sienkwitz



The memphis group, italian furniture designers. despite being fairly ugly and disliked by many people, thier influence seeped into ther media





Emigre magazine, Graphic designers, David Carson, Vaugn Oliver, Neville Brody





Run out of ideas, anyone got any more ?
 
 
grant
02:53 / 16.09.05
OK, I just scanned a bunch of Grendel comics.

The story starts in the back of a non-standard-sized book Matt Wagner did called Mage. It was a fairly standard comics story (a good one, I thought), told in pretty much the usual way. The size was a little odd -- larger than digest, smaller than magazine -- and that was about the only novelty. Until you reached the back of the book.

Here's the kind of pages you got:





The credits are M. Wagner/R. Rankin, but the drawings look so much like Wagner's style, I can't say for sure what R. Rankin actually did. In the left-hand page, note the way Grendel's fork pokes through the next couple of frames towards Argent, the wolfy fellow.
 
 
grant
03:06 / 16.09.05
Those pages were set up as excerpts from a biography of Grendel, who was sort of a crime boss/vigilante/genius named Hunter Rose, written by Christine Spar, the daughter of his niece & ward, Stacy Palumbo. When Spar's son is abducted by a bizarre kabuki dancer (who turns out to be a shapeshifting vampire), she becomes the heroine of the next phase of Grendel.

It was very pop. This is 1986...





...and the flying cars have tailfins. These are facing pages, if you can't tell. More frame violations by Tujiro, the kabuki dude. Even his car breaks the frame. He does that in nearly every appearance.

Art by the Pander Bros, inked by Jay Geldhof. Very Nagel/Duran Duran, lots of Japanese elements (superficially, but also in the geometric/diagonal layouts).
 
  

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