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Rome Series 1

 
  

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Are Being Stolen By Bandits
15:43 / 07.09.05
So, is anyone else watching this? It started on US TV last week, I believe, and two episodes have been screened so far. I've only seen the first installment, but I was reasonably impressed - I've come to expect high standards from HBO's original drama programming, and this didn't disappoint me. It was a little dry in places, and didn't grab my attention quite as impressively as the first episodes of Oz, The Sopranos or Deadwood, but I suspect it'll grow on me.

The historical content seems (based on my admittedly patchy knowledge of the era) pretty solid, but they're wisely not using it as the source of every plot element. I'd imagine that the ongoing senatorial machinations and the developing split between Caesar and Pompey will be used as the underlying thread of the series, but that week-by-week ephasis will be placed on smaller-scale, minor character-based stories - but I could be totally wrong about that, of course, since I've avoided all 'spoiler' information (beyond the obvious, which is inevitable in any historically-based series) to date.

What did anyone else think?
 
 
diz
09:45 / 12.09.05
I just watched episodes 2 and 3 tonight, having missed everything up to this point. A friend filled me in on the first episode, and we watched the other two on the DVR.

Holy shit, this show kicks ass, in a very visceral sort of way. Fighting, drinking, fucking, killing, plotting, betrayal... oh, so much to sink one's teeth into. It's like Gladiator meets Dynasty, with a dash of The Sopranos. Not as good as a the best HBO shows, but really engaging. It's just high-octane plot-driven drama.

(spoilers)

There are already a few standout characters for me. Atia, obviously - Sluttius Maximus of the Julii - with all her plotting and fucking and plotting about fucking. She whored out her own daughter in the first episode, for Christ's sake! And the way she played the overnight reversal of fortune with Pompey leaving town - she goes from arguing with her daughter about who gets to mercy-kill whom when the mob breaks down the door to having the remaining Roman aristocracy grovelling at her feet the very next day, and she handled it with such panache.

Then, of course, Octavian. The boy political genius totally gets what's going on, and no one listens to him. I heart him.

Titus Pullo. He just likes to drink, and fuck, and kill people, and it works for him. The best part is that he's not all grim and cynical - he does it all with such humor and gusto. He stabbed someone through the throat for cheating at dice. He got brain surgery without anaesthesia. He's stolen the fucking treasury. He's like Han Solo, except with no regard for human life.

Plus, he has one of the best speeches so far, which I'm going to paraphrase. Lucius has asked him for advice about women:

"The best way to win a woman is to bring them the beating heart of your enemy. Oh, sure, they all claim they're not impressed by that sort of thing, but then you actually do it and they're as wet as October.

Failing that, though, you can always talk to them."


Mark Antony, who in this show is basically the upscale Titus Pullo, but with more fucking and less killing (so far).

Niobe is refreshingly complex. You very much get the feeling like she's a bit out of her depth and is making it up as she goes along, and has been doing so for eight years now.

My favorite moments from the show so far:

- The legionnaires waiting politely for Mark Antony to finish banging the shepherd girl.

- Brain surgery. Yowtch. Holy goddamn motherfucking shit, I can't believe I saw that on TV.

- Mark Antony going in to meet with Pompey and Cato, where they're expecting to dictate the terms of Caesar's surrender, and he walks in, nonchalantly slaps them around some with his giant political dick, then goes and fucks Atia.

- Pompey going over the situation with the defense of Rome, and realizing that he has no choice but to retreat. Not only is Caesar going to take Rome, he's effectively already done it, and he's totally boned.

- The aforementioned bit where everyone has to come to Atia begging for protection

all in all, i'm hooked.
 
 
A fall of geckos
14:22 / 12.09.05
Just seen the second episode and I'm also really enjoying this. The mixture of the political and personal lives of the characters has been handled well so far. The use of the personal lives of Titus Pullo & Lucius Vorenus as a counterpoint to the power games of the politicians is inspired. I absolutely loved the idea that the declaration of Caesar as a public enemy and subsequent civil war was all a knock on effect of Pullo's drunken knife-fight.

Is Octavian - the boy political genius - Augustus?
 
 
diz
19:45 / 12.09.05
Yep. The one and only.
 
 
Are Being Stolen By Bandits
21:06 / 12.09.05
Pullo and Vorenus really are every "mis-matched cops" buddy movie team ever, but in a very good way.

The second episode was a lot better than the first (which was good, but a little exposition-heavy), and I'm encouraged by how effectively they're avoiding the obvious pitfalls of TV-budget history thus far. We're inevitably not going to get the "thousands of soldiers massing on-screen" scenes which tend to characterise Hollywood's approach to this sort of material, but that's hardly a major loss.
 
 
Cat Chant
12:13 / 02.10.05
Does anyone know when this is going to get to the UK?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:47 / 02.10.05
I'm pretty sure it's fairly soon- one of my clients at work wants coverage on it (and they're a terrestrial channel, which leads me to believe they're gonna be showing it in the not too distant future). I'm looking forward to it.
 
 
A fall of geckos
14:54 / 25.10.05
"...she better fuck him like Helen of Troy with her ass on fire"

Just watched the last three episodes. I'm beginning to think this is one of the best dramas around at the moment, though they should give up pretending this is about the political games of the powerful and call it What Pullo Did.

What I've noticed as the shows progressed is the continual use of humour. It reminds me a lot of Deadwood, with short bursts of brutal action surrounded by quick one-liners. The example that springs to mind is the sewer scene with Octavius and Pullo torturing Evander, which was by turns horrific and hilarious (mostly due to the Pullo/Octavius partnering).

I find myself fascinated by Attia in the same way people slow down for traffic accidents. I found at first that some of her mannerisms were too modern. They seemed to break the out of the mood of the show, but I've got used to this and she's an inspired character. She's pushy, determined, thoroughly amoral and politically dangerous, but comes across like a descendent of the Absolutely Fabulous set. I laughed like a drain at the sequence where she tries to make up with Servilia by giving her a well endowed slave because "A large penis is always welcome" (this show's a goldmine for quotes). Also the sequence where she quizzes Octavius about his relationship with Casaer...

"For what reason would you and Ceasar possibly be skulking around in a cupboard? You seduced him, you sly little fox. I am not clear it's decent, him being your great uncle...in any case, well done!"

The show's about half way through series one, and already we've had the collapse of the Republic, the first part of the Civil War and the Alexandrine Civil War. I think we've seen about three years worth of events. I'm wondering how much of Caesar's reign is this season going to cover?

Anyone else still watching this?
 
 
matthew.
21:30 / 25.10.05
At least it has a higher budget than the supposedly great "I, Claudius" miniseries. Which reminds, Augustus in that execrement is played by none other than Brian Blessed, who was arguably the best part of the first Black Adder (he played Richard IV, by the way).
 
 
Are Being Stolen By Bandits
06:58 / 26.10.05
I'm increasingly convinced that the historical setting for this was just an excuse for HBO to indulge a desire to create a gloriously over-the-top, crude 'n' rude soap opera, with a veneer of respectability to keep the critics off their backs. Not a complaint, just an observation - personally, I'm still enjoying it a lot.

I was disappointed by Episode 7, but the Egyptian stuff in the last installment made me far happier (crack whore Cleopatra!). My problem with the previous episode was mainly that it felt too bitty - there were a few good scenes, but the Pullo/Vorenus shipwreck storyline was dashed off in a pretty perfunctory manner (nicely Watchmen-esque escape, mind), and the coincidence of their washing ashore just in time to bump into Pompey was a little too conveniet. The "Oh look, lesbianism!" twist felt a little forced, too - I'm sure it's going somewhere (I'm guessing it'll play a part in the inevitable downfall of Atia), but as yet it just felt a little gratuitous, which is a shame since most of the other sex scenes thus far have been rather effectively incorporated into the wider plots.

I was also hugely underwhelmed by the shitness of the battle scene - given that it was the big confrontation which the last 5 or 6 episodes have been building towards, I was rather hoping for more than 20 seconds of crappy slow-mo. To be honest, since the budgetary restraints probably precluded a full-on battle scene, I rather wish they'd let the whole thing happen off-screen, and let the viewers discover the outcome along with Vorenus and Pullo. That wouldn't have taken a particularly drastic re-shuffling of the episode in question, it would have given the shipwreck plot thread some dramatic purpose, and the scene in which Pompey actually describes his defeat to Vorenus was fantastic - a far more effective emotional pay-off to the escalating conflict than the actual depiction of the fight and aftermath, earlier in the episode.

The pacing of the last few episodes has felt a little rushed, though. I strongly suspect they're going to get as far as Caesar's assassination by the end of the season (there was even an "Ides of Mars" reference in episode 7), since that's the only reason I can think of for hurtling through some rather interesting plot points at such high speed. That does leave me wondering what they'll focus on in future seasons, though - an emperor per season, perhaps? Could be interesting, if ratings permit them to keep going for a while.

Still, niggles aside, it's still turning out to be a cracking show. Pullo (and his straight man, Vorenus) continue to be top-notch entertainment - and the revelation about Caesarion's 'real' father made me laugh out loud.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
10:30 / 30.10.05
the supposedly great "I, Claudius" miniseries...execrement?

Have to disagree with you about the excellent I, Claudius. But I do admire your conflation of execrable and excrement, wrong-headed as the criticism may be.

So, ROME starts here on BBC2, Wednesday 2nd November, 9pm. Good appetiser featuring the splendid James Purefoy keeps popping up. Some great British thesps in this, so have great hopes.
 
 
sleazenation
12:25 / 30.10.05
I'm actually quite excited to see the marriage of HBO production values and BBC costume drama blending together with the best writing from both organizations...
 
 
matthew.
12:45 / 30.10.05
Xoc. It's simple. I Claudius is shite. How is that wrong-headed?

Rome on the other hand just doesn't do it for me. And I normally looooove HBO.
 
 
Ganesh
18:02 / 30.10.05
Xoc. It's simple. I Claudius is shite. How is that wrong-headed?

It's simple: he disagrees with your assessment of it as "shite", I expect. Turning the question back at you, how is I, Claudius "shite"?
 
 
Mourne Kransky
20:16 / 30.10.05
Xoc. It's simple. I Claudius is shite. How is that wrong-headed?

Far be it from me to disagree with your masterful and convincing critique of I Claudius. I would find it harder than you do to describe in five letters the excellent work done with the dramatisation of Graves' novels by Sian Phillips, realising the monstrously wicked Livia, John Hurt as a polymorphously perverse Caligula and, most of all, a brilliant performance by Derek Jacobi as the wisest fool in the Empire.

And I normally looooove HBO.

Yes, I can see you are a very discriminating chap. HBO has given us some fine stuff and this is also a co-production with the BBC. We'll see. They've thrown a lot of money at making it look good. Let's hope they spent as lavishly on writers and research.
 
 
sleazenation
20:47 / 30.10.05
What you say? Matt representing his unexamined opinion as somehow important, possibly even going so far as to claim it as objective fact? How unusual and utterly enthralling...
 
 
matthew.
00:07 / 31.10.05
with the dramatisation of Graves' novels by Sian Phillips, realising the monstrously wicked Livia, John Hurt as a polymorphously perverse Caligula and, most of all, a brilliant performance by Derek Jacobi as the wisest fool in the Empire.


Oh, you've completely won me over.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
01:37 / 31.10.05
oh hush all you.

Rome had more sex and treachery tonight, convienently all in one package: incest.

what won't they do?
 
 
Spaniel
08:08 / 31.10.05
Incest has long been a staple of British soap operas.
 
 
Ganesh
17:04 / 31.10.05
Oh, you've completely won me over.

Not sure if this is intended to be facetious or sincere, Matt. Either way, Xoc's backed up his opinion with reference to some of the specific aspects of I, Claudius which he felt were other than "shite". As someone who's submitted his own work for criticism elsewhere on the board, I'm sure you appreciate the value of more-than-one-word feedback.
 
 
grime
21:17 / 31.10.05
so, is pullo jealous of vorenus? it seems like that's what i'm seeing, but it dosen't make sense to me. would titus pullo, who "would eat his own fucking heart" before kissing anyone's feet really want to get tied up in a magistrate's robes? or is just generallly lost with no formally orginized killing about?

it is cool to actually talk about the show here, right?
 
 
Mourne Kransky
21:29 / 31.10.05
Certainly, grime. And after Wednesday the British Barbeloids will no doubt join in.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
00:24 / 01.11.05
i would say that Pullo is jealous of Vorenus (I really should look up the proper spelling of these names) in certain ways. Not exactly his class status in life, but his success and the public acknowledgement of his success. He is jealous of his beautiful loving (yeah, well, the cheating, I know) wife, his kids, his home, and now that Caesar has come to his home and honored him. Pullo doesn't care that Vorenus now is basically a noble, but that he was rewarded for doing exactly what Pullo also did. That's the crux of it. That everything that Vorenus has done, Pullo has been there and participated equally. But only Vorenus is honored and rewarded (by Caesar, his wife, his kids, etc).
 
 
matthew.
02:30 / 01.11.05
Ganesh and Xoc:

You're right. My apologies. I was being rude and flippant.

My problems with I, Claudius are problems with superficial qualities of the mini-series. I enjoyed the original novel, but I felt the adaptation was far too "amateur Shakespeare-in-the-park". This stems from the actors simply hamming it up, I found. Far too melodramatic.

Rome, on the other hand, is playing out in a similar fashion, but it looks and sounds a lot better.

I definitely enjoy the history from both shows that being said.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
02:38 / 01.11.05
Here in the Twilight Home for The Forgotten, where it's always lovely and calm, and the only person that speaks to us is 'the spirit of dark and lonely waters,' we gather that this show is quite *hott*

People who've seen it - Is that about right?!
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
04:26 / 01.11.05
Well the tabloids have been predictably up in arms/drooling all over it. The Mail was my favourite. A massive article about how shocking it is that there are such scenes of nudity on not long after the watershed (I don't get this "not long after" bit... either you make it your cut-off point or you don't. Stop fucking around) illustrated with a picture which may as well have been captioned "Some nudity yesterday. In a paper people of any age are allowed to read".

I'm looking forward to this (and it's not an attempt to restart the argument, but I have to say I loved I, Claudius as well.)

What with various videogames and books I've been consuming recently, I'm all about the Romans at the mo. (Well, them and zombies).
 
 
sleazenation
14:59 / 03.11.05
So, did anyone else in the UK watch this?

It was fun, and I will be tuning in next week, but there isn't anything I specifically would want to say about it...
 
 
Warewullf
15:31 / 03.11.05
Yeah I saw it and I'll watch it again. Nothing to say about it so far except that it's (thankfully) missing that vicious, sadistic violent streak which runs through Oz that I was, for some reason, expecting.
 
 
Are Being Stolen By Bandits
19:14 / 03.11.05
Strangely, the first episode broadcast on the BBC was a heavily-edited combination of the first two episodes of the show as originally broadcast in the States. Even more strangely, it apparently kept all of the sex'n'violence, and trimmed down the expository historical background. I didn't see the UK version, so can't comment on how much was lost in the process, but it certainly sounds like a bad decision on the BBC's part (particularly since they co-financed the show in the first place), and I'd be interested in why they chose to show it this way. Hopefully there won't be any editing of later episodes.
 
 
■
20:07 / 03.11.05
Well, it still made sense. Maybe they expect that Brits fall into one of two camps: a) We are likely to have learned the history at a public school and don't need the exposition;
b) We're lowbrow proles who only want the stabbing and fucking, anyway.
It was OK, I liked Octavian a lot (reminded me a little of that James wossname whose family convinced him he wanted to be a woman). Antony was well cast as a sadistic self-serving rapist, so we're ready to have the noble Antony of Shaky undercut later. This is the first thing I've seen since Trainspotting in which Kevin McKidd got to do anything interesting, too, and he was good.
I think the knifings were a bit gratuitous and the tit count was unnecessarily high, but at least it rammed the message home that Romans would not have floated around in togas being effete, foppish and philosphical in shiny marble palaces.
One thing that drifted through my head briefly, though, is that the whole arc is likely to be one which shows Caesar undermining and cutting through legitimate (if corrupt) government to become some kind of force for good, striking out and subduing the barbarians. I do hope it doesn't become some sort of exculpatory analogy for Bush and Blair. I know it's more complex than that, but it bothered me for a minute or two.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
23:06 / 03.11.05
I liked it. Enjoyed the music and the surprising graphics as the titles ran. I liked the look of it, overall. I liked the way the streets and buildings seemed tighter and fuller of hoi polloi than in Hollywood epics.

There's been quite a lot of commentary in the press over here about the historical inaccuracy of Atia shagging with the servants watching or Atia being drenched in bull's blood. I liked both scenes. I though it needed something to wave as a banner in this first episode saying it will be half a century before the prevalent Judaeo-Christian moral codes of the next two millennia will be even a trickle in the riptide of history.

The characters who need to be sympathetic are, without being saccharine or plaster saints. Good to see Karl Johnson as Cato, although he could sound a touch more patrician. Caesar's real and seems like a leader of men and not a figurehead. Antony's gorgeous and a study in amorality. It's going to be fascinating watching how they write his script.

The young fellow playing Octavian is great and hits just the right note. He should be an arrogant pup. However, there's a yearning quality and a teenage uncertainty to him that was well played too.

I would have liked more background infill, particularly in the series opener. I do know a fair bit of the history but could have used some refreshing at times. Interesting to hear that the BBC had purposely trimmed a lot of that off. But I have arcane interests and they won't get a mass audience if they try to keep me happy.
 
 
grime
00:02 / 04.11.05
"Enjoyed the music and the surprising graphics as the titles ran."

oh xoc, there is a disturbingly involved rant about the opening sequence lurking in my brain . . . but you are all safe for now.

keith, sounds like you nailed it to me. pullo dosen't neccessarily want all that vorenus has, but he feels passed over for ANY reward.

but, hello? he got to fuck cleopatra!

no whining allowed after that.

i think my favorite scenes combine pullo and octavian, easily the most enjoyable characters. that one in the sewers, of course, being the crown jewel. i hope we get to see more of them together.

what is really striking me about rome, is the amount of time that can pass between episodes and even between scenes. years or months can pass in the blink of an eye. it's not exactly confusing as far as the narrative goes, but it's hard to remember when the actors don't age accordingly.

kind of like comic book characters.
 
 
Cat Chant
08:44 / 08.11.05
Even more strangely, it apparently kept all of the sex'n'violence, and trimmed down the expository historical background.

That's reassuring: I do find sex'n'violence dull (particularly hetsex between attractive thin white people, oh God that's pushing the envelope I've never seen that on telly before) and expository historical background hugely exciting. So maybe it'll get better - I was pretty bored by the first episode.

Americans! Is there ever going to be any boykissing? Interested to hear there's going to be lesbians, cos the way girl-on-girl sex was conceptualized in Rome at this period is pretty complicated and alien.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
11:35 / 08.11.05
i believe there is some boykissing, but i can't remember any specific instances of it right now... i think it's truly boykissing, as in an older man and a young boy arrangement.

i hate the opening sequence. it doesn't feel big enough for a show about Rome... it's kind of like a cheap knockoff of Carnivale's. Oh well.
 
 
Cat Chant
16:02 / 08.11.05
Hooray! True boykissing!
 
  

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