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Underground > Policy & Help >

Apostrophe Watch

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20:04 / 02.09.05

I'm not quite sure why abstracts like this thread's are pressing my Scratchy Button at the moment. I mean, it's not like I've never taken apostrophic liberties myself. I think misplaced apostrophes jump out at me more in thread titles and abstracts than they do in the posts themselves, because they're more 'official' - like film titles.

Is it reasonable to ask the moderators to change this stuff, or am I straying into OMFG U R TEH NAZZI!1!!1!! territory?

20:21 / 02.09.05

I say go for it, frankly. I don't have the slightest problem with occasional typos being fixed discreetly - I view them in the same way as I view minor tag mis-typings that leave everything bold or break links.

21:37 / 02.09.05

Well, mods already correct spellings a lot of the time, so I see no problem doing the same for grammar.

21:39 / 02.09.05

Cool. Couldja do that one, then?

21:41 / 02.09.05

I routinely fix grammar and spelling in titles and abstracts. I tend to leave it (and perpetrate it) in posts...

00:02 / 03.09.05

Yeah, same here. I'm not sure that I'm right, but I've always imagined that the serach function might require you to have stuff like apostrophes in the same place as the title/abstract you're looking for in order for it to find them, given that it also has trouble with capitalisation, so I put them up for moderation when I catch them.

Titles and abstracts are fair game - they're the more public face of the board, after all. In comparison, apostrophes and whatnot in the wrong places inside threads only reflect badly on the poster responsible for them, not the board as a whole.

23:25 / 03.09.05

Erm.

So could some kind moderator perform apostrophectomy on this thread's abstract, then? Please?

00:26 / 04.09.05

I would, but I handed in my R&M moderating badge a few weeks ago. Paleface and sleaze don't moderate it, either.

01:02 / 04.09.05

Actually, while we're trying to attract the attention of Music mods, could one of them also get shot of the non-working image link in the current Robbie Williams thread, please?

04:49 / 04.09.05

They might be more likely to see it in the moderation requests thread. (Not that we shouldn't be reading all policy threads, but, you know.)

10:55 / 04.10.05

Assuming Quantum isn't talking about a single multi-brained individual named Liar, could someone deal with this thread title, please? Ta.

13:48 / 04.10.05

Thank's.

08:42 / 05.10.05

'sno problem's Gane'sh I's got an apo'strophe problem. I was mistaught at school that it was possessive and I can't shake it. Its an idiot's mistake I know.

08:58 / 05.10.05

It *is* possessive. But everything that’s doing the possessing comes behind the apostrophe. The bee’s knees (one bee); the bees’ knees (lots of bees).

I struggle a bit with apostrophes myself. I still don’t understand why Two weeks’ notice has an apostrophe, but Two weeks long doesn’t.

09:17 / 05.10.05

I think it's purely so people like us can have conversations about it on boards like this.

pointless & uncalled for

09:41 / 05.10.05

The notice belongs to Two Weeks and ze can do what ze likes with it.

ONLY NICE THINGS

10:42 / 05.10.05

Indeed. Whereas two weeks long is a description - like five feet tall - two weeks in respect of length.

13:28 / 05.10.05

Ah, yes. It’s easier if you make it one week, innit. You’d say ‘One week long’ but not ‘One week notice’. A one week holiday; One week’s holiday.

00:07 / 22.11.05

Is it reasonable to ask the moderators to change this stuff, or am I straying into OMFG U R TEH NAZZI!1!!1!! territory?

I always making dumb little mistakes in my posts, repeating words words, missing punctuation putting apostrophe's in the wrong place etc. I know I should preview my replies more closely, but even when I do I miss them. I can't help it, I'm a bit of an idjot like that.
Thing is, I know these things can annoy people, like Ganesh (they annoy me too). But I also feel bad putting in mod jobs for stuff like that. I still do it, but I feel like a bit of a tool. Anyway, it makes me wonder about Nesh's original question.

Is it reasonable for mods to change stuff like misplaced apostrophes as they see fit, or would that be abuse of power?
How much to people care about their sovereignty over their posts as far as typoes are concerned. I, for one, am totally happy for any mod to correct anything in any of my posts that could reasonably be identified as a typo. I'm not suggesting that they should feel in any way obliged to proof read my posts, but if they wanted to fix some grammatical eyesore, they would have my permission.

Which makes me wonder:

As a matter of policy, would anyone object to mods being free to correct typoes wherever they wanted to?

PS. Is there an e in 'typo(e)s'?

00:14 / 22.11.05

Please note that not even I'm TEH NAZZI enough to suggest moderating individual posts for spelling, grammar and punctuation (it'd be an uphill task, and it'd erode the flavour of individual posters). My original post pertained specifically to thread titles and abstracts which, being the public face of the place, are, I think, a slightly different matter.

00:34 / 22.11.05

Yeah yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to represent your opening post as supporting this position. It was just the most relevant thread.

I'm only proposing this in the loosest, most notional sense, and I agree that titles and abstracts are different. I just wondered what the mood would be. I'm not for a moment suggesting that such a thing would be part of a mod's responsibilities.

I take your point about flavour. But I think there's a fairly obvious line between people fucking up an apostrophe, and someone's personal style. (At least I can't think of anyone whose posting style involves purposefully misplacing apostrophes)
Again, I don't expect any mod would be so underemployed as to exert any great energy correcting posts. But if some some reason something bugged them, it was obviously a mistake, I wonder if they'd have everyone's tacit permission to fix it. As they might fix a broken link. Just wondrin'.

00:44 / 22.11.05

I'm not sure that the line's that obvious. One needs to be up to speed on both individual quirks and in-jokes. It would be disastrous, for example, if a moderator who'd been away for a few weeks returned to the board and changed all the 'teh's to 'the's...

(I don't thi-i-ink there's an 'e' in 'typos', incidentally. Presumably it's an abbreviated term for 'typographical errors'?)

00:57 / 22.11.05

Yeah, but typos looks like I'm trying to say something fancy in Greek.

I know what you mean Ganesh. Mistakes could be made.

(Although you picked a poor example to win me over. I'd be quite happy to see half of these cocking teh's shaken back into this week. Smimble, kidz, smimble)

01:00 / 22.11.05

I still find 'teh' dunderheadedly amusing. It now crops up in my 'phone's predictive texting as often as 'the'...

08:14 / 22.11.05

It also requires that any mod making changes has perfect spelling and grammar, and doesn't decide to correct "typoes" to "typo's".

20:01 / 22.11.05

I don't think I've ever misused commas in a thread title, correct me if I'm wrong. Please. But like Smoothly Weaving I find myself getting a guilty little twinge whenever I moderate a post for either grammatical or spelling errors. Of course I have begun to moderate my own posts increasingly over the last few months despite use of the preview button and with guilty twinges not withstanding.

It's strange because as a moderator I never have a problem with similar requests from other board members, so it's possible that I shouldn't worry so much. I have a tendency to write long multi-clause sentences on line sometimes and for that reason (and others) I'm sure my posts are regularly grammatical nightmares.

Resultantly I'm not sure if I would even notice things like comma misuse but maybe someone should make use of the grammar thread and detail the pitfalls of comma usage.

On a personal note to anyone reading: Use the preview button but don't feel wary about using the edit post button. It's there I presume largely for occurences like grammatical, spelling errors as much re-editing for clarity.

Do other mods feel similarly?

20:08 / 22.11.05

Oh, I vastly overuse commas. I think there's more leeway in commas than apostrophes, though.

20:30 / 22.11.05

Yes I seem to have become confused *head spins* I did mean to talk about apostrophes at one point. Sorry I've just spent the day working my head around terms like direct object, indirect object, subject complement, adverbial, premodification, conjunctions etc. Previously I've just tried to nod my head sagely when words like adjective or adverb came into conversation but never really been sure what exactly they refered to.
Thusly I became disorientated and mistook apostrophe for comma in my muddled mind. Sorry for rot.

But the question still stands: Do other mods mind taking moderation requests for these things?

ONLY NICE THINGS

23:42 / 22.11.05

I have no problem with reading and agreeing to a moderation request by somebody clearing up the grammar of their own post - it makes their intended meaning clearer, often, and takes very little time. I would not usually accept a request from a moderator to change the grammar of somebody else's post, because they are guessing at how the writer would have written it, and alos creating a period where the original author cannot move to change it while the chage is queued. But somebody realising they have made a mistake and changing it - yeah, that and HTML account for the lion's share of mod requests, and I'm happy to process them.

00:03 / 23.11.05

I'm guilty of the kind of doublethink Shrug talks about. I feel terribly guilty about requesting minor edits to my own posts, but when I read others apologising for requesting a typo fix, I think 'What are you saying sorry for?'. Agreeing that sort of thing doesn't bother me in the slightest, but then I only get about 1 job an hour.

I think perhaps when I make the request, I imagine it adding to grant or Haus of some other overworked mod's snaking queue.

00:41 / 23.11.05

But, let's face it, it really doesn't take long to assess moves to introduce/subtract apostophes.

13:27 / 06.12.05

So I'm skimming 'Beats, Shits & Loaves' (lent by my mum) to brush up on my bad grammar and I came across this use of the apostrophe-

What are the do's and don't's

...which to me looks so, so,* wrong, much worse than the bees' knees. WTF? When is it right to pluralise with an apostrophe?

*apologies if you dislike the Oxford comma

14:26 / 06.12.05

That’s not an Oxford comma, is it?

And what's wrong with bees' knees? That's just a plural possessive.

I think apostrophes are deemed acceptable where the plural form is not common. If’s and but’s, p’s and q’s etc.

14:40 / 06.12.05

"Bees' knees" looks wrong because, afaik, the actual phrase is "bee's knees" - as in, the knees of one bee, not a whole bunch of them.

15:08 / 06.12.05

Oh, I think he's talking about his allergy to apostrophes after an s, as discussed upthread.

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