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F**ken Curses!

20:12 / 10.12.01

I just started this topic because I thought that this subject of magickally cursing someone has come up so much, it undoubtably deserves it's own thread.
To curse or not to curse, this is the question. I have stated my views in other threads that I believe it is not healthy for us magickly-abled to inflict harm on each other or the magickly-impaired.
The truth is, yes, we do this all the time. From a simple "go to hell" to that asshole who cut you off...to sticking pins in an effigy of your ex, how many times a day have we caught ourselves wishing harm upon another?
One more question I have thought about in regards to cursing, is there ever an appropriate time to curse someone, a situation where a curse is justified. I beleive this is possible.
Let the debate begin.....

-May Tricks

20:20 / 10.12.01

I dub this thread the Magickal equivalent of all the discussion in Conversation about fighting.
How does the fact that it's Magick change things up? well... for one thing, a great many more people are woefully unarmed. Whereas everyone knows how to fight to some degree (though of course some may choose not to), not everyone can even attempt the Magickal equivalent of scratching at eyes and pulling hair, or throwing a drunken swing.
So all in all... it's amazing they don't make you hold a permit for this stuff!

09:25 / 11.12.01

quote:Originally posted by Vadrice:
How does the fact that it's Magick change things up?

Yep, That should be the point. One's personal ethics should be the same both in your everyday life as well as your magical life.

quote:well... for one thing, a great many more people are woefully unarmed. Whereas everyone knows how to fight to some degree (though of course some may choose not to), not everyone can even attempt the Magickal equivalent of scratching at eyes and pulling hair, or throwing a drunken swing.
So all in all... it's amazing they don't make you hold a permit for this stuff!

Well, actually everyone has innate defenses for this kind of thing. You don't have to be actively using magic to have some ability to protect yourself.

People are a lot more powerful than they give themselves credit for. Which means, of course, that some of the most powerful curses can come from people who have never done anything in their lives that they think is remotely "magical".

Of course, self-defense is required. I'm not a turn-another-cheek kind of person. If someone messes me on a magical level then I will defend myself in an appropriate way. I have no qualms about that, whatsoever.

When you start working actively with this kind of thing you have to start become a bit more careful about situations that piss you off. People can inadvertently put a hurting on a person just by being angry enough and directing the intent properly. It's a lot less complicated than most people think.

Permits, eh? Well, who would hand them out? Who would enforce them?

I'm sure they would be forged by the first day they were issued.

09:46 / 11.12.01

I agree with Wyrd and also want to bring up the point that the word ‘curse’ is pretty wide in it’s perceived meanings.

Sometimes a curse may be in revenge, sometimes in self-defense, sometimes as a form of justice, sometimes as a malicious power play, etc. And there are infinite shades of grays in the designed outcomes of each curse. I once ‘cursed’ an ex-employer because they were refusing to pay their contractors (I wasn’t the only one). They were breaking the law and engaging in unethical actions and I needed the money desperately. I did the ritual and I got my money almost immediately, and then I did a ritual to make sure that all the ‘curse’ energy was accounted for etc. This ended up being easier and cheaper than taking the case to court for both me and the employer but still some would find that course preferable to using magic against someone. Each person has to choose their own moral compasses.

What I find frustrating in the current occult climate is the predisposition to embrace the whole ‘love and light’ mentality of any sort of magical action that confronts another person as being evil or charged with bad karma etc.

09:46 / 11.12.01

Okay, I have already relearned something.

1.The first rule to any magickal practice is that YOU are accountable to the universe. Awareness is a gift, heightened awareness is a precious gift. Just because you know how to "split an atom" per se, doesn't mean you need to build an atomic bomb.

2.Now, if you do happen to build one you don't need to use it.

3.IF you do feel the need to resort to pushing that button, you have to be prepared for the consequences.
-it may not go off
-it may hurt innocent people in the process
-it may be retalliated
-it may start a chain reaction that mutates beyond your control...excetera

4.Cover your ass. Take precaution, have some foresight. If you cannot SEE what the outcome might be and you haven't made a list of everything that could go wrong, then the chance of something going wrong is more likely.

5.Check your intent. Is this your pride talking? Is the only beneficiary your self-indulgent, over-inflated, ego? Well, chances are, that unless the universe has plans for your sorry butt, and is playing you like a pawn, YOU are not going to be an almighty Ruler-of-all. The universe will still make up the balance with a check, (endorsed on your ass!).

Am I even close, because I think I see a loophole. Wait...is that the Magickal Militia? Oh no, I better call my lawyer at Liber, Liber Al and Thelema.

-May Tricks

[ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: May Tricks ]

09:46 / 11.12.01

I'm reminded of a friend of mine once telling me that the best way to stunt my groth in magick is to begin studying it.

Didn't believe it then, don't believe it now. 'Inate defenses' haven't been terribly good to me in the past.

But then... I'm one of those people who eats day old room temperature pizza as a magickal act.

HOWEVER. No one can curse a person like they can curse themselves. That I stand by.

09:46 / 11.12.01

Personally I've always thought you only need to ask yourself one question about this:

'Is the person I'm considering cursing an inconsiderate fuckbag who's going to go around giving other people the same shit he's just given me/people I know/my neighbour's pet cat?'

In all seriousness, tho', I do think there are a lot of people who might be educated by a large (non-lethal) dose of godpoop. And as to going easy on them 'cause they don't know as much about this as me? I don't think so. If someone's trying to fuck me over, they're going to use every means in their posession, from physical strength to financial clout, to try and succeed in said fuckery, so why not use my own advantage?

Having said all that, I've noticed I don't tend to go in for curses as much as I used to these days. Too much effort. I tend to just fire off some protective sigils to stop whoever's pissing me off doing anything to me and wait for them to fuck themselves over.

But in theory...If someone pissed me off enough...

14:46 / 11.12.01

Wasn't there a cool thread about this from before May enlisted? Hold on let me look....::looking::

14:49 / 11.12.01

Here it is.

What ever happened to this guy? Did he kill the Bastard? Damn it, now I want to know!!!

16:17 / 11.12.01

Thank the deity of your choice for the Barbelith Magick Archive.

Hexing/Cursing can be a wonderful learning experience. A lot of it, as I mentioned to Rev. Jesse, has to do with discipline and emotional self-control.

18:55 / 11.12.01

Stop bitchin' Wiz. You know you love it!

-May Tricks

19:24 / 11.12.01

Who needs curses? I've found that I can do far more damage to a person's spirit just by telling them what I think of them. Usually, by accident in a fit of anger. Heat of the moment, and all that.

The only curses I'll pronouce are the justice variety, asking for the scales to be balanced, that sort of thing. Covers my ass karmicly if I'm wrong

Psychic combat, on the other hand, I find myself involved in more often than I'd like. Mostly kids who think they're vampires, and the like, acting out at parties or clubs.

*swat*

"No REALLY, stop that. Its not polite, and some of us around here can notice it, and WILL bind you if you don't behave."

19:49 / 11.12.01

Play nice you blood-sucking deviants or else!
*For those 'lithers who do suck blood for what ever purpose, this is not meant as an attack on your "social preferences". Just stay the fuck away from my hemoglobin!

OMGs
-May Tricks

16:51 / 13.12.01

Theoretical question, connected to the whole Karma thread thing going on, for those that find the concept of spiritual accounting interesting:

If someone has wronged you in some way (perceived by you as wrong at least) and there were say, three choices of how you could get retribution (maybe it's justice maybe it's revenge but it's definitely retribution of some type). And you were driven to get this retribution. Which ones would be the most risky spiritually (relating to the Karma debate - which ones provide 'negative karma') and why?

1) Going up to the person and starting a fist fight knowing that you are angry enough to maybe cause serious injury (or receive serious injury).

2) Using financial/political means to ruin the person's life.

3) Blackmail and/or revealing 'dirt' on them to loved ones. Attempting to effectively ruin the person's life.

4) Doing a curse with purely thaumaturgical energy (i.e., a plain old sigil, candle magic, etc.) to ruin the person's life.

5) Doing a curse with theurgic help (calling upon the dark forces of the demon CHEEESEWEEENIE) to ruin the person's life.

17:09 / 13.12.01

hm. Is it within your Dharma to enact this retribution? If it is, you don't suffer spiritually, by this model, anyway.

"Part of my Dharma is to enact suffering upon those who cause suffering to me"

That'd do it, I'd think, as a handy justification.

18:10 / 13.12.01

If you can get stamped certificates stating that you could probably make some good money.

"Getcher Violent retribution Dharma certificates here"

"How much would you pay for this Dharma certificate. WAIT! Don't answer yet! You also get this set of Ginsu steak knives to use on your victim."

18:53 / 13.12.01

Oh Lothar, you are funny! I get so horny when I giggle hysterically.

-May

19:54 / 13.12.01

You're trying to distract me from the topic at hand aren't you?

09:05 / 14.12.01

What topic?
-May

09:05 / 14.12.01

a pox on both your houses!

09:05 / 14.12.01

Is that supposed to be funny, grant or was that even a half-serious curse?
-May

13:27 / 14.12.01

Heh heh heh.

14:34 / 14.12.01

Better watch it Balfour, My ginsu knives should be arriving any day now.

14:47 / 14.12.01

Apoc on both your houses?

14:13 / 17.12.01

quote:Originally posted by Lothar Tuppan:
Better watch it Balfour, My ginsu knives should be arriving any day now.

Foiled again!!